A-10 “Warthog” planes are on the way

[OldUSAFSniper]

The Hogg will be around for awhile. Replacement parts are being made in a heavily Democratic state (Washington). Patty Murry will strip gears if they try and take the Hogg away. The ONLY time she likes the military.

 

[American_Jihad]

We needed this sooner so when isis was parading down the streets with their black flags this bird could come down to feast upon their souls...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

Tribune News Service
James Rosen

© Staff Sgt. Michelle Michaud/US Air Force/KRT/MCT File photo of Staff Sgt. Neal Prisbe standing next to an A-10 jet.

WASHINGTON — Air Force Col. Martha McSally was leading a squadron of A-10 attack jets over Afghanistan when they encountered U.S. forces engaged in a desperate fight against Islamist insurgents.

One of the embattled troops signaled his unit's location with a small mirror that reflected sunlight upward. McSally, the first American woman to fly in combat, and the other pilots flew to the light and opened fire with the seven-barrel Gatling cannons nestled in the A-10s' noses. The fire, at 65 rounds per second, devastated the enemy. The surrounded Americans lived.

"They didn't have time to figure out the eight-digit coordinates of the enemy or to put a laser spot on the target because they were on the run with their lives in danger," McSally recalled in a recent interview. "The other (jet) fighters were above the weather, so they could not get down to save these guys. They were not going to live, but we went down and saved their asses. We were able to get below the weather in the mountains because the A-10 is slow and maneuverable."

A decade later, McSally is in her first year in Congress and on a different sort of rescue mission: She's trying to save the A-10 Thunderbolt II, whose former pilots and other supporters affectionately call it the Warthog, from being sent out to aviation pasture.

The Arizona Republican belongs to a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are resisting an Air Force push to retire the 283 A-10 aircraft from military service and hand off their core mission of close-air support for ground troops to a handful of other models of U.S. fighter jets.

The A-10 caucus received a jolt of good news last month when the Pentagon unexpectedly announced that it was moving a dozen of the aircraft to Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, from where American warplanes have been launching raids against the Islamic State since August.

The surprise move came 10 days before President Barack Obama said he was sending "fewer than 50" special operations troops to Syria to help Arab and Kurdish fighters combat Islamic State militants.

Sim Tack, a defense analyst with Stratfor, an Austin, Texas-based group that sells geopolitical intelligence to government agencies and corporations, believes that the dispatch of the special operators to Syria may be tied to the arrival of the A-10s at Incirlik.

"These would be exactly the type of guys who would be able to make full use of the A-10s by providing (targeting) coordination from the ground," Tack told McClatchy. "And the A-10 would be a very capable aircraft to provide them with close air support as they are operating inside Syria."

Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri Democrat, welcomed the new assignments.

"As the United States and our coalition partners take the fight to ISIL, the A-10's ability to provide air support is very important," McCaskill said, using a common acronym for the Islamic State. "Its pilots are making an invaluable contribution to our multipronged campaign against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq."

Despite the recent Incirlik mission, Pentagon officials say the A-10 flies too low, moves too slow and, in its fourth decade of service, must give way in the coming years to sleeker, faster jets that can drop precision-guided munitions on enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy and from greater heights.

"While no one, especially me, is happy about recommending divestiture of this great old friend, it's the right military decision," Gen. Mark Welsh, Air Force chief of staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee last year.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, said at another hearing that an A-10 had once rescued him in combat. He extolled it as "the ugliest, most beautiful aircraft on the planet" — but said its time has come.

The Pentagon wants to replace the A-10 with the F-35, the futuristic Joint Strike Fighter that has endured numerous production delays and is now projected to be fully deployed across the Air Force, Navy and Marines by 2019.

Mark Gunzinger, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said that even before the F-35 is widely available, U.S. military leaders have plenty of existing options to provide close air support.

"Low-flying aircraft like the A-10 are at risk from anti-aircraft artillery, MANPADS (portable air-defense systems) and other ground threats," he said. "We have a large inventory of other capabilities which can do that mission, including rotary-wing aircraft, drones, bombers and fighters."

For three years, the Pentagon has removed funding for maintaining the A-10 fleet from the National Defense Authorization Act; each year, Congress has put the money back.

President Barack Obama vetoed the most recent measure Oct. 22, in part over lawmakers' attempt to protect the A-10. On Nov. 5, the House passed a modified version of the bill, with the A-10 funding intact, by a 370-58 margin, more than enough votes to override a second Obama veto, and the Senate approved it Tuesday, on a vote of 91-3, another unassailable margin. The White House said Obama would sign it.

...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We needed this sooner so when isis was parading down the streets with their black flags this bird could come down to feast upon their souls...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

Tribune News Service
James Rosen

© Staff Sgt. Michelle Michaud/US Air Force/KRT/MCT File photo of Staff Sgt. Neal Prisbe standing next to an A-10 jet.

WASHINGTON — Air Force Col. Martha McSally was leading a squadron of A-10 attack jets over Afghanistan when they encountered U.S. forces engaged in a desperate fight against Islamist insurgents.

One of the embattled troops signaled his unit's location with a small mirror that reflected sunlight upward. McSally, the first American woman to fly in combat, and the other pilots flew to the light and opened fire with the seven-barrel Gatling cannons nestled in the A-10s' noses. The fire, at 65 rounds per second, devastated the enemy. The surrounded Americans lived.

"They didn't have time to figure out the eight-digit coordinates of the enemy or to put a laser spot on the target because they were on the run with their lives in danger," McSally recalled in a recent interview. "The other (jet) fighters were above the weather, so they could not get down to save these guys. They were not going to live, but we went down and saved their asses. We were able to get below the weather in the mountains because the A-10 is slow and maneuverable."

A decade later, McSally is in her first year in Congress and on a different sort of rescue mission: She's trying to save the A-10 Thunderbolt II, whose former pilots and other supporters affectionately call it the Warthog, from being sent out to aviation pasture.

The Arizona Republican belongs to a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are resisting an Air Force push to retire the 283 A-10 aircraft from military service and hand off their core mission of close-air support for ground troops to a handful of other models of U.S. fighter jets.

The A-10 caucus received a jolt of good news last month when the Pentagon unexpectedly announced that it was moving a dozen of the aircraft to Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, from where American warplanes have been launching raids against the Islamic State since August.

The surprise move came 10 days before President Barack Obama said he was sending "fewer than 50" special operations troops to Syria to help Arab and Kurdish fighters combat Islamic State militants.

Sim Tack, a defense analyst with Stratfor, an Austin, Texas-based group that sells geopolitical intelligence to government agencies and corporations, believes that the dispatch of the special operators to Syria may be tied to the arrival of the A-10s at Incirlik.

"These would be exactly the type of guys who would be able to make full use of the A-10s by providing (targeting) coordination from the ground," Tack told McClatchy. "And the A-10 would be a very capable aircraft to provide them with close air support as they are operating inside Syria."

Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri Democrat, welcomed the new assignments.

"As the United States and our coalition partners take the fight to ISIL, the A-10's ability to provide air support is very important," McCaskill said, using a common acronym for the Islamic State. "Its pilots are making an invaluable contribution to our multipronged campaign against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq."

Despite the recent Incirlik mission, Pentagon officials say the A-10 flies too low, moves too slow and, in its fourth decade of service, must give way in the coming years to sleeker, faster jets that can drop precision-guided munitions on enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy and from greater heights.

"While no one, especially me, is happy about recommending divestiture of this great old friend, it's the right military decision," Gen. Mark Welsh, Air Force chief of staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee last year.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, said at another hearing that an A-10 had once rescued him in combat. He extolled it as "the ugliest, most beautiful aircraft on the planet" — but said its time has come.

The Pentagon wants to replace the A-10 with the F-35, the futuristic Joint Strike Fighter that has endured numerous production delays and is now projected to be fully deployed across the Air Force, Navy and Marines by 2019.

Mark Gunzinger, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said that even before the F-35 is widely available, U.S. military leaders have plenty of existing options to provide close air support.

"Low-flying aircraft like the A-10 are at risk from anti-aircraft artillery, MANPADS (portable air-defense systems) and other ground threats," he said. "We have a large inventory of other capabilities which can do that mission, including rotary-wing aircraft, drones, bombers and fighters."

For three years, the Pentagon has removed funding for maintaining the A-10 fleet from the National Defense Authorization Act; each year, Congress has put the money back.

President Barack Obama vetoed the most recent measure Oct. 22, in part over lawmakers' attempt to protect the A-10. On Nov. 5, the House passed a modified version of the bill, with the A-10 funding intact, by a 370-58 margin, more than enough votes to override a second Obama veto, and the Senate approved it Tuesday, on a vote of 91-3, another unassailable margin. The White House said Obama would sign it.

...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

You leave out the fact that the A-10 is there to draw fire and suppress ground fire and the heavy lifting (or killing) is being done by the 2 AC-130U Gunships doing one single orbit. Why they even have the A-10s there is beyond logic. The Herkypig with teeth can fire at 15k feet and has enough fire power to make a Naval Destroyer jealous.

 

[namvet]

issue depleted uranium rounds. raghead goat fuckers deserve the best

 

[Daryl Hunt]

issue depleted uranium rounds. raghead goat fuckers deserve the best

Depleted Ammo is only good against hardened armor. Fragment would be better. And a whole lot cheaper.

 

[longknife]

Both will certainly be effective when Obozo demands our pilots WARN THEIR TARGETS AHEAD OF TIME!

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Both will certainly be effective when Obozo demands our pilots WARN THEIR TARGETS AHEAD OF TIME!

Most of those drivers are civvies. It gives them 45 minutes to bail out and just the truck and fuel is destroyed. In DS1 and 2, the same thing was done for Iraqi Armor. They warned of an attack. It gave the tank crew the time to flee. And the Buffs went to work doing a 50 foot by 100 yd bomb run. They left a pathway between bomb strikes. This is why if they saw any kind of military garb, they would throw their lids open and try and surrender. Even if was Reporters. The way of warring isn't killing the other guy, it's to remove his resolve of fighting.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We needed this sooner so when isis was parading down the streets with their black flags this bird could come down to feast upon their souls...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

Tribune News Service
James Rosen

© Staff Sgt. Michelle Michaud/US Air Force/KRT/MCT File photo of Staff Sgt. Neal Prisbe standing next to an A-10 jet.

WASHINGTON — Air Force Col. Martha McSally was leading a squadron of A-10 attack jets over Afghanistan when they encountered U.S. forces engaged in a desperate fight against Islamist insurgents.

One of the embattled troops signaled his unit's location with a small mirror that reflected sunlight upward. McSally, the first American woman to fly in combat, and the other pilots flew to the light and opened fire with the seven-barrel Gatling cannons nestled in the A-10s' noses. The fire, at 65 rounds per second, devastated the enemy. The surrounded Americans lived.

"They didn't have time to figure out the eight-digit coordinates of the enemy or to put a laser spot on the target because they were on the run with their lives in danger," McSally recalled in a recent interview. "The other (jet) fighters were above the weather, so they could not get down to save these guys. They were not going to live, but we went down and saved their asses. We were able to get below the weather in the mountains because the A-10 is slow and maneuverable."

A decade later, McSally is in her first year in Congress and on a different sort of rescue mission: She's trying to save the A-10 Thunderbolt II, whose former pilots and other supporters affectionately call it the Warthog, from being sent out to aviation pasture.

The Arizona Republican belongs to a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are resisting an Air Force push to retire the 283 A-10 aircraft from military service and hand off their core mission of close-air support for ground troops to a handful of other models of U.S. fighter jets.

The A-10 caucus received a jolt of good news last month when the Pentagon unexpectedly announced that it was moving a dozen of the aircraft to Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, from where American warplanes have been launching raids against the Islamic State since August.

The surprise move came 10 days before President Barack Obama said he was sending "fewer than 50" special operations troops to Syria to help Arab and Kurdish fighters combat Islamic State militants.

Sim Tack, a defense analyst with Stratfor, an Austin, Texas-based group that sells geopolitical intelligence to government agencies and corporations, believes that the dispatch of the special operators to Syria may be tied to the arrival of the A-10s at Incirlik.

"These would be exactly the type of guys who would be able to make full use of the A-10s by providing (targeting) coordination from the ground," Tack told McClatchy. "And the A-10 would be a very capable aircraft to provide them with close air support as they are operating inside Syria."

Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri Democrat, welcomed the new assignments.

"As the United States and our coalition partners take the fight to ISIL, the A-10's ability to provide air support is very important," McCaskill said, using a common acronym for the Islamic State. "Its pilots are making an invaluable contribution to our multipronged campaign against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq."

Despite the recent Incirlik mission, Pentagon officials say the A-10 flies too low, moves too slow and, in its fourth decade of service, must give way in the coming years to sleeker, faster jets that can drop precision-guided munitions on enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy and from greater heights.

"While no one, especially me, is happy about recommending divestiture of this great old friend, it's the right military decision," Gen. Mark Welsh, Air Force chief of staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee last year.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, said at another hearing that an A-10 had once rescued him in combat. He extolled it as "the ugliest, most beautiful aircraft on the planet" — but said its time has come.

The Pentagon wants to replace the A-10 with the F-35, the futuristic Joint Strike Fighter that has endured numerous production delays and is now projected to be fully deployed across the Air Force, Navy and Marines by 2019.

Mark Gunzinger, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said that even before the F-35 is widely available, U.S. military leaders have plenty of existing options to provide close air support.

"Low-flying aircraft like the A-10 are at risk from anti-aircraft artillery, MANPADS (portable air-defense systems) and other ground threats," he said. "We have a large inventory of other capabilities which can do that mission, including rotary-wing aircraft, drones, bombers and fighters."

For three years, the Pentagon has removed funding for maintaining the A-10 fleet from the National Defense Authorization Act; each year, Congress has put the money back.

President Barack Obama vetoed the most recent measure Oct. 22, in part over lawmakers' attempt to protect the A-10. On Nov. 5, the House passed a modified version of the bill, with the A-10 funding intact, by a 370-58 margin, more than enough votes to override a second Obama veto, and the Senate approved it Tuesday, on a vote of 91-3, another unassailable margin. The White House said Obama would sign it.

...

War against Islamic State moves A-10 jet from cutting board to front lines

The Russians have just mobilized the S-400 surface to air missiles within range of Turkey. That means that the S-300 radar system is active there as well in Syria. There are only 3 planes in existance that can fly in that environment and expect to live and those are the F-22, F-35 and B-2. It would be up to those three to neutralize the Russian Systems so the others could safely operate. Unless Russia starts playing nice I suspect that there will be more oopses and sooner or later, a US bird is going to get hit. Right now, using the A-10 for suppression and support looks might grim. Same goes for the one bird doing most of the damage, the AC-130U.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

We've been in the era of insurrections and guerrilla warfare since Vietnam. The only break in that pattern was Desert Storm in 1991. The A-10 has and will for some time excel in that arena. To retire a workhorse like the A-10 is short-sighted and incredibly stupid. Barry has no stomach for the fact that our military MUST prepare for a number of scenarios from full mech infrantry division action to spec op warfare.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We've been in the era of insurrections and guerrilla warfare since Vietnam. The only break in that pattern was Desert Storm in 1991. The A-10 has and will for some time excel in that arena. To retire a workhorse like the A-10 is short-sighted and incredibly stupid. Barry has no stomach for the fact that our military MUST prepare for a number of scenarios from full mech infrantry division action to spec op warfare.

Funny, we said the same thing about the A-1E. The A-10 was barely out of testing when Vietnam ended. Were we wrong? Had they listened to us tje A-10 would have never happened at all. While the A-10 is more lethal against Heavy Armor (T-90 tanks) the A-10 was a better CAS aircraft. But cost said it had to go. Well, it's the A-10s turn to go. Saving it for one and only battle doesn't make economic sense. The well can go dry.

 

[longknife]

A-10 Retirement Indefinitely Delayed

They simply can't get rid of The Hog.

“It appears the administration is finally coming to its senses and recognizing the importance of A-10s to our troops’ lives and national security," Rep. Martha McSally, R-Ariz., said in a statement Wednesday in response to the news reports. McSally is a retired colonel who served 26 years in the Air Force and was the first female pilot to fly in combat.

Read the story @ Report: A-10 retirement indefinitely delayed

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It's never been about whether the A-10 is needed for not. It's about the manufacturing of Spare Parts which many are made in Arizona.

 

[MarathonMike]

But it is the only plane in the US Air Force designed exclusively for CAS...would you rather be in an Apache?

You don't seem to understand the point of my post. Any aircraft, especially an Apache, with a large radar cross section (RCS) doesn't belong anywhere near a high threat radar air-to-air and surface-to-air integrated air defense system (IADS).

You are correct in stating the A-10 is the only inventory aircraft designed exclusively for CAS. I know this well from my time in the aircraft. It's important to also understand the A-10 was not designed to operate in today's highly lethal IADS environment.

There are some great papers on survivability in today's radar threat environment you might find interesting to Google.

I get what you are saying and respect your experience. My question is has there ever been a conflict where we lost A-10s due to the vulnerabilities you are discussing? I'm a big advocate for the A-10 and I see nothing in the fleet that replaces it and certainly nothing that matches the psychological effect the A-10 has on the enemy. They know what it is and what that horrifying gun will do to them.

 

[williepete]

My question is has there ever been a conflict where we lost A-10s due to the vulnerabilities you are discussing?

I'm a big advocate for the A-10 and I see nothing in the fleet that replaces it and certainly nothing that matches the psychological effect the A-10 has on the enemy. They know what it is and what that horrifying gun will do to them.

Hi Mike!

Amen on the gun's influence.

Below is a link detailing the A-10 losses during Desert Storm. Most or all losses are from AAA or IR SAMs. Note that even though the SA-13 is an IR missile, it has an acquisition radar which gives the operator a much better set up for his shot. I don't know if the Hogg Drivers knew the SA-13s were in the area when they planned their missions. If they did, maybe they had reason to believe they would be neutralized by SEAD assets. Maybe they didn't know they were there and therefore didn't take the appropriate precautions.

Note that one loss was due to "optical AAA' ground fire or SAM 20, unconfirmed which it was". I've been out of the Hogg for 20 years now so I don't know what their current employment doctrine is. I can't imagine that any commander or pilot would knowingly support a mission into an area covered by a SA-20.

Cheers,

2951 CLSS A-10 Warthog Combat Losses in Desert Storm







----------------------------------

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The Hogg was designed to limp away from encounters with 70's era MANPADS and AAA of 23mm and below. The sky is a lot more lethal than it was 43 years ago when the Hogg took to the air.

The Syrian Air Defense Forces were sporting SA-2, SA-3, SA-5, SA-6, SA-8, SA-10 and SA-11 SAMs and over 4,000 AAA pieces BEFORE the Russians showed up with their hardware which includes S-300s among other goodies.
(Wiki, so take with a huge grain of salt).
Syrian Air Defense Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not a place for the Hogg.

But it is the only plane in the US Air Force designed exclusively for CAS...would you rather be in an Apache?

The A-10 was never designed to do CAS. It just so happens since it can't do the mission it was designed to do it does CAS. In the last few months the #1 CAS aircraft has been the B-1B. And before that, it was the F-16.
But it is the only plane in the US Air Force designed exclusively for CAS...would you rather be in an Apache?[/QUOTE]

It was NEVER designed for CAS. It was designed to kill armor. Since, we have learned that almost any Fighter can kill a tank and do it at a much further distance. It just happens that it can do CAS. But in the last few months, the majority of the CAS has been done by the B-1Bs. It's safer. Remember, the A-10 isn't an Aircraft, it's a living and breathing highly trained Pilot.
But it is the only plane in the US Air Force designed exclusively for CAS...would you rather be in an Apache?[/QUOTE]

It was NEVER designed for CAS. It was designed to kill armor. Since, we have learned that almost any Fighter can kill a tank and do it at a much further distance. It just happens that it can do CAS. But in the last few months, the majority of the CAS has been done by the B-1Bs. It's safer. Remember, the A-10 isn't an Aircraft, it's a living and breathing highly trained Pilot.

 

[MarathonMike]

I'm not saying it's without risk, but I believe it would be a mistake to mothball the A-10. It may not have been designed for CAS but like a lot of things that the military designs well when put in the hands of extremely skilled and gutsy pilots you have a game changer type of aircraft. Nothing will turn "Allahu Akbar!" to "Mommy Mommy!" faster the A-10s reigning terror down on the terrorists.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The most terrifying ground attack still goes to the B-52 when it carpet bombed Saddam's armor. Right now, the largest percentage for any one AC for CAS goes to the B-1. The lowest goes to the A-10.

 

[longknife]

The most terrifying ground attack still goes to the B-52 when it carpet bombed Saddam's armor. Right now, the largest percentage for any one AC for CAS goes to the B-1. The lowest goes to the A-10.

There are memories engraved inside one's head that never go away. Even from several miles away, the sound and feel of B-52s unloading into the jungles of 'Nam sometime return in the night.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The most terrifying ground attack still goes to the B-52 when it carpet bombed Saddam's armor. Right now, the largest percentage for any one AC for CAS goes to the B-1. The lowest goes to the A-10.

There are memories engraved inside one's head that never go away. Even from several miles away, the sound and feel of B-52s unloading into the jungles of 'Nam sometime return in the night.

AFter the buff drops his load that turns 100 feet by a quarter of a mile into just pits and plowed field, there was always one yellow/brown hand that would slowly rise and flip the bird at the buff.

The Buff just gets better every year.

And it looks like the B-1 will be around just as long and is proving to be a real workhorse with it's extreme loiter time and range.