92% of Jews are khazars!

[Freeman]

Even jewish historian confirm that diaspora is a myth, actual jews are mostly non-semites, they were just judaised lately in 8th century.

The Invention of the Jewish People

Bestselling new analysis of Jewish history by a leading Israeli historian

All modern nation states have a story of their origins, passed down through both official and popular culture, and yet few of these accounts have proved as divisive and influential as the Israeli national myth. The well-known tale of Jewish exile at the hands of the Romans during the first century AD, and the assertion of both cultural and racial continuity through to the Jewish people of the present day, resonates far beyond Israel’s borders. Despite its use as a justification for Jewish settlement in Palestine and the project of a Greater Israel, there have been few scholarly investigations into the historical accuracy of the story as a whole.

In this bold and ambitious new book, Shlomo Sand shows that the Israeli national myth has its origins in the nineteenth century, rather than in biblical times — when Jewish historians, like scholars in many other cultures, reconstituted an imagined people in order to model a future nation. Sand forensically dissects the official story — and demonstrates the construction of a nationalist myth and the collective mystification that this requires.

A bestseller in Israel and France, Shlomo Sand’s book has sparked a widespread and lively debate. Should the Jewish people regard themselves as genetically distinct and identifiable across the millennia — or should that doctrine now be left behind and if the myth of the “Jewish state” is dismantled, could this open a path toward a more inclusive Israeli state, content within its borders?

The Invention of the Jewish People

Most importantly, he concentrates attention on Khazaria, that "Strange Empire" that flourished in the Caspian region between the seventh and tenth centuries AD. By the eighth century the Khazars had adopted Hebrew as their sacred and written tongue, and "[a]t some stage between the mid-eighth and mid-ninth centuries, the[y] ... adopted Jewish monotheism" (221). Sand speculates that this conversion was calculated to save them from absorption into either the Roman or the Islamic empires. The Khazars, he contends, engendered those Askhenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe who would later invent the myths of Zionism to justify their colonization of Palestine, a land to which they had no "ethnic" connection and where they remain the dominant elite.

 

[Douger]

Pre Judaism pagan religion .
Isis
Rah
El
Israel
IsNtReal.

And if your a religious freak.
Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

[sparky]

John 17:23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.


John 00:?0 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.


~S~

 

[editec]

Yeah, I can imagine what a shitstorm this book must be generating.

People cling to myths that aggrandize their people's origins.

Normally a study such as this wouldn't really matter all that much, but as the claim that Jews have a historical right to the land now called Israel is based on the myth of Jewish (uniquely pure) bloodlines, this book is political dynamite.

The fact is that Khazars were not Semites.

But they were converts to Judaism and the fact is also that they did migrate to central Europe (at about the same time as many now EURO tribes did)and they continued to be Jews because they continued to practice their adopted religion and their cultural values.

The fact ALSO is that the ancient Semetic Jews of Israel took wifes from non-Jewish captives (read the OT), so the whole concept of a pure Jewish bloodline makes about as much sense as the myth of pure Arryan blood or for that matter most "pure" tribal bloodline myths.

Being a Jew is a cultural thing, not a genetic one, no less than being ENGLISH is a cultural value more than one based on some ancient tribal identity.

That's the way it is now, and that's the way it was then, too.

Let's remember, shall we, that even Jesus didn't speak ancient Hebrew.

 

[rhodescholar]

Yeah, I can imagine what a shitstorm this book must be generating. People cling to myths that aggrandize their people's origins.Let's remember, shall we, that even Jesus didn't speak ancient Hebrew.

Clearly you're stupid, and perhaps mentally ill.

For those with brains:

The Khazar Myth and the New Anti-Semitism,Steven Plaut

It is one of the great ironies of the 21st century that anti-Zionists and anti-Semites on both the Left and the Right, have returned to racialist arguments against Jews that most of us thought had died out after World War II.

One of the most bizarre aspects of this "re-racializing" of anti-Semitism is the role played by the Khazar myth.

The newly fashionable Khazar mythology holds that modern day Ashkenazim, and especially the European leadership of the Zionist movement, are not Jews at all in the racial sense, but rather descendents from non-Jewish Khazars; therefore, the Khazar "theorists" claim, Zionists and Israelis have no legitimate claims to the Land of Israel.

It would be hard to exaggerate how widespread the misuse of the Khazar myth is among those seeking to delegitimize Israel and Jews today. A recent investigation showed nearly 30,000 websites using the Khazar "theory" as a bludgeon
against Israel and Zionism.

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Some two hundred websites claim to describe a cabal known as the Khazarian Zionist Bolsheviks (KZV). Neo-Nazi and Holocaust denial organizations and websites are particularly fond of the Khazar myth. It is also growing in popularity among left-wing anti-Zionists.

Arab and Islamofascist propagandists have long bandied about the Ashkenazim as Khazars theory and Iran's genocidal leaders adore it. Al-Jazeera has been using the Khazar story to urge a worldwide Christian religious war against the Khazar pseudo-Jewish imperialists.

Groups promoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion often cite the nefarious role of Khazars as "proof" of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy (I counted 700 such websites). And even Jewish anti-Zionist cranks like Alfred M. Lilienthal and the Swedish "Israel Shamir" have used the Khazar myth to attack Zionism.

Why are these various groups suddenly interested in a rather esoteric and archaic group of people in Central Asia that disappeared nearly a millennium ago?

The answer is very simple.

According to the Khazar theory of the new anti-Semites, most Jews today, particularly Ashkenazi Jews, are not racially Jews at all but descendents from the Turkic tribe of Khazars, whose ruling class and parts of its rank and file population converted to Judaism in the 8th or early 9th
century CE. Hence, argue the racialists, Ashkenazi Jews have no rights to live in the racially Semitic Middle East and especially not in the Land of Israel.

Fact and Legend

For Jews, the history of the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism is best known from essays in The Kuzari: In Defense of the Despised Faith, a medieval book composed by the great Spanish poet and philosopher Judah Ha-Levi.

Only part of the book actually deals with the Khazar kingdom, about which little was known, and the historic claims about them in the book are not considered fully reliable.

In any case, The Kuzari purports to report the debates at the Khazar royal court that supposedly led to the Khazar elite's conversion to Judaism. Other senior Jewish officials in the Spanish Muslim regimes actually corresponded with the Khazar kingdom - most notably Cordova Rabbi Hasdai ibn Shaprut (whose letters have survived). And the great Iraqi sage Saadia Gaon is believed to have maintained correspondence with Jews in the Khazar kingdom.

It is commonly thought that part of the motivation for the Khazars' conversion was to establish political neutrality for the Khazar kingdom, which faced potential threats from the powers of both Christendom and Islam.

The Khazars themselves left no documentary records. The Arab historian ibn Fadlan wrote about them, but he did so two centuries after the conversions to Judaism had occurred. Some Jews, having sought refuge from Byzantine persecutions, probably lived in the Khazar kingdom long before the conversion of the royalty there.

One ironic historical twist is that the Khazars contributed to the Cyrillic alphabet, in which Russian and some other Slovak languages are written. Saint Cyril came to Khazaria in 860 in an attempt to convert the Khazars to Christianity. Since the Hebrew of the Khazars and Greek were the main alphabets known to St. Cyril and the early Slavs, they borrowed from both.

Western interest in the Khazars was stimulated largely by the 1976 book The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler, a writer better known for his lifelong battles against totalitarianism in all its forms. Koestler's book
was largely based on the earlier book The History of the Jewish Khazars, by the historianD.M. Dunlop.

Dunlop rejected the idea that large numbers of Ashkenazi Jews could trace their origins to the Khazars, but not so Koestler. By grossly and sensationally exaggerating the role and numbers of Khazar descendents among European Jewry, Koestler - who was a strong Zionist - inadvertently provided today's racialist anti-Semites with all the ammunition they could want, and many of them frequently cite his book as the basis for their racialist denunciations of Israel.

A number of more serious books about Khazars are now on the market, including The Jews of Khazaria by Kevin Alan Brook. Rabbi Bernard Rosensweig was one of the leading figures in debunking the Khazar theory of Ashkenazi Jewish origins. Writing in Tradition (16:5, Fall 1977, pages 139-162), he dismissed it as "wobbly scholarly foundations without historical support."

Likewise, the Swedish archaeologist Bozena Werbart, an expert on the Khazars, wrote: "In the Khazar kingdom, Koestler wanted to see the origin of the eastern European Jewry. Nevertheless, all the historical and linguistic facts contradicted his theories."

As The Encyclopedia of Judaism (1989) emphatically states, "The notion that Ashkenazi Jewry is descended from the Khazars has absolutely no basis in fact."

What Became of the Khazars

The actual Khazar kingdom was partly subjugated by the early Russians in the 10th century, and whatever was left was annihilated as a result of the Mongol invasions of Central Asia.

What exactly became of the Khazar Jews is simply not known. Those who retained their Judaism probably integrated themselves into other Jewish communities around the world. Some groups of Khazars joined the Magyar invasion into what became Hungary and may have merged with local Jews already living in those lands; indeed, archeologists have found Jewish stars in the remains of Hungarian Khazar villages.

Small groups of Khazar mercenaries probably found refuge in other places. Most likely the largest integration of Khazar Jews among other Jews took place in Iran and Iraq, the large communities closest to the Khazar kingdom and with whom close ties had been maintained.

(An urban legend holds that red-haired Jews are descended from Khazars, though that could hardly explain King David, not to mention Esau. Arthur Koestler claimed many were blond with blue eyes.)

In any case, Khazar political existence ended a thousand years ago.

So what are we to make of the Khazar myth concerning Ashkenazi Jews and their supposed lack of legitimate claims to Israel due to their Khazar origins? The greatest irony is that even if the entire Khazar theory of Ashkenazi Jews were correct - and virtually none of it is correct - it would be entirely irrelevant. Judaism has never defined Jews on racial grounds. Anyone from any race is welcome as a convert to Judaism as long as he or she is sincere.

The biblical Israelites themselves were already a racial hodgepodge. They absorbed the "mixed multitude" that left Egypt together with them at the time of the Exodus. There are biblical references to Jews of different racial features, including the black-skinned Shulamit mentioned in the Song of Songs.

Jews always defined themselves in religious, ethnic-national and at times linguistic terms, but never along racial lines. If all Ashkenazi Jews were indeed converted Khazars, as the racial anti-Zionists claim, they would be no less legitimately Jews - and, as such, would have the same legitimate claims to the Jewish homeland as any other group of Jews. (Given the traditional Jewish deference to righteous converts, maybe more so.)

Pseudo-History and Poppycock

The actual details of the Khazar theory concerning European Jewry are simply pseudo-history and crackpot poppycock.

Jews already lived in Europe a thousand years before the Khazar kingdom was formed. There are no genetic markers or indicators at all showing that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Turkic tribes. In fact, there exists considerable genetic evidence showing that European Jews are closer to Levantine and Syrian Arabs than to Central Asians.

After the Mongol invasion most Khazars probably assimilated into the Jewish communities of Iran and Iraq, which of course eventually emerged as important Sephardic centers, formed mainly of Jews with Semitic racial characteristics, descended from migrants and exiled Jews from the Land of Israel. In any case, there are more "Semitic" Sephardic Jews in Israel today than there are European Ashkenazi Jews. And if the Khazars looked Turkic, how on earth could they give Ashkenazi Jews a European complexion?

There are other problems. If all Ashkenazi Jews are descended from converted Khazars, why are there Cohens and Levis among them? One inherits the status of a Cohen (priest) or Levite from one's father. Descendants of converts through the male line can never be a Cohen or a Levite.

And why are there no Khazar surnames among Ashkenazim, or Khazar names for towns in Europe where Jews lived? And why did most Ashkenazi communities speak variations of Yiddish rather than Turkic?

As mentioned, the popularity of the Khazar myth among anti-Semites represents a return of modern anti-Jewish bigotry to the racialism of the 1930's and earlier.

Nearly every anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi website denounces Zionists and Israelis as "Khazars." Web chat lists in which Jews defending Israel are dismissed as "Khazar usurpers" are too numerous to count.

The racialism once again in vogue holds that Jews would only have legitimate claims to the right of self-determination in their homeland if they were appropriately Semitic from a racial point of view. Palestine is part of the Semitic racial lebensraum and those who do not possess the correct pure racial markings have no business being there. Racial purity is suddenly the new basis for national rights.

I discovered scores of neo-Nazi websites claiming that "Khazar Zionists" were really behind the 9/11 attacks. I found thousands of websites claiming that "Khazar Jew-pretenders" are in a conspiratorial league with Freemasons, the Vatican, the Illuminati and others to control the world.

Khazar conspiracists get nuttier by the day; a widely cited Ku Klux Klan website claims that the pro-Israel evangelist Pat Robertson is really a Khazar Jew. The neo-Nazi American Patriots Friends Network claims Khazars are themselves descended from the Magog race and secretly control America.

If we take the racialist argument to its logical conclusion, Palestinian Arabs have the right to exercise all claims to sovereignty in Israel due to their being true racial Jews, while Zionists are non-Jewish Khazars - racial imposters and usurpers.

To make things even sillier, Arabs themselves are, of course, a mix of racial strains, with a particularly large Caucasian component thanks to Arab intermixing with Spanish and Italian Europeans, Caucasian Berbers, Vandals, Goths, and even some Vikings.

The racialist delegitimizing of Zionism as "Khazar imperialism" is smack inside the same insane asylum with the "Jesus was a Palestinian" theory and the claim that all real Jews (from a racial point of view) converted to Islam after the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century and so became Palestinian Arabs.

One can also find countless websites claiming those things.

Steven Plaut, a frequent contributor to The Jewish Press and the new Jewish Press Blog (The Jewish Press Blog), is a professor at the University of Haifa. His book "The Scout" is available at Amazon.com. He can be contacted at [email protected].

 

[Freeman]

since when a russian and ukranian is descent from Abraham?
wake up idiots
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvrD_L7f1x0]YouTube - 80~90% Jews are NOT Semite - They Never Belonged to Israel[/ame]

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Haven't been able to understand either side of the issue. So what if most Jews are of Khazar Origins? So what if they are of Semite origin? People who consider themselves Jewish are Jewish. I'm all for historical accuracy and factual analysis and all of that stuff, but at the same time its absolutely useless to undermine anybody's sense of identity, whether Jewish, or Palestinian, or American, or Costa Rican.

 

[Freeman]

Haven't been able to understand either side of the issue. So what if most Jews are of Khazar Origins? So what if they are of Semite origin? People who consider themselves Jewish are Jewish. I'm all for historical accuracy and factual analysis and all of that stuff, but at the same time its absolutely useless to undermine anybody's sense of identity, whether Jewish, or Palestinian, or American, or Costa Rican.

they are not jews, they are judaized khazars; some minority of khazars are christians.

Anyway, "israel" is built over the myth of Diaspora, but studies show that most jews actually are descent from from khazars or judaized people from northern Africa and Spain, they never knew diaspora.

So colonisation is a bad pretext to invade palestine and expell native citizens.

I think those khazars should back home in Eastern Europe.

 

[hipeter924]

Haven't been able to understand either side of the issue. So what if most Jews are of Khazar Origins? So what if they are of Semite origin? People who consider themselves Jewish are Jewish. I'm all for historical accuracy and factual analysis and all of that stuff, but at the same time its absolutely useless to undermine anybody's sense of identity, whether Jewish, or Palestinian, or American, or Costa Rican.

they are not jews, they are judaized khazars; some minority of khazars are christians.

Anyway, "israel" is built over the myth of Diaspora, but studies show that most jews actually are descent from from khazars or judaized people from northern Africa and Spain, they never knew diaspora.

So colonisation is a bad pretext to invade palestine and expell native citizens.

I think those khazars should back home in Eastern Europe.

How about you go home to the UK? The Muslim terrorists will welcome you with open arms.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Haven't been able to understand either side of the issue. So what if most Jews are of Khazar Origins? So what if they are of Semite origin? People who consider themselves Jewish are Jewish. I'm all for historical accuracy and factual analysis and all of that stuff, but at the same time its absolutely useless to undermine anybody's sense of identity, whether Jewish, or Palestinian, or American, or Costa Rican.

they are not jews, they are judaized khazars; some minority of khazars are christians.

Anyway, "israel" is built over the myth of Diaspora, but studies show that most jews actually are descent from from khazars or judaized people from northern Africa and Spain, they never knew diaspora.

So colonisation is a bad pretext to invade palestine and expell native citizens.

I think those khazars should back home in Eastern Europe.

Well, I mean, I think after 1,000-1,200 years of being Jewish, they're more than entitled to call themselves Jews. iASDoISDh. Of course, this shows some of the dilemmas in the blurry line of ethnicity and religion that characterize both Israel and some other places around the world.

And yes, of course I agree that colonization was a bad pretext to invade and expel the Palestinians from Historical Palestine, but this would have been a great injustice whether or not most Jews are Semites or Khazar or Eskimos, really. In other words, even IF all the Jews were descended from people in the region 2,000 years ago, it would still have been wrong.

At the same time, as much as I understand this is one of the core things about the way Israel justifies itself as a Jewish state/homeland, I also feel that it should be irrelevant whether or not all or most Jews came from there thousands of years ago or if most are converts from Eastern Europe or, say, Mongolia, or Central Africa. In reality, Israel's claim to legitimacy as a state at this point should be the obvious, like all other states: That it exists, and is internationally recognized, and that it's not going anywhere.

It's a similar case for the Palestinians. It is completely irrelevant whether 100 years ago most Palestinians were primarily Arab and only geographically "Palestinian," or whether 43 years ago some primarily though themselves Egyptians or Jordanians. The fact is that they're distinctly Palestinian now. That is their identity.

I guess to make my point a bit clearer, I think of it like this: The establishment of an Israel, under whatever ethnic/religious claims held legitimacy only insofar as all people (whatever their 'national' stories say about their ethnic/religious make-up and whether these are historically true or not- this is an issue of identity/kinship which may be imagined or not) have a right to self-determination, but it nevertheless meant a great injustice for the people who lived in the land that was to become Israel (which ended up being the Arabs who resided in Palestine). After decades of struggling for their own homeland, those Arabs developed a distinct identity (read: not ethnicity) as Palestinians, and their claims to a state in their historic homeland is equally valid as any other, again regardless of whether they are really the descendants of those who have lived there forever or whether some were from, wherever, you know, Indonesia or something.

In short, at this very moment in time both these peoples have a claim to the same homeland. They are not willing to share it. For the Israelis to drive out the Palestinians from all historic Palestine would perpetuate the great injustice that began so many years ago; for the Palestinians to drive out the 6 million Israelis in Israel today would (though in some ways understandable) be the beginning of another great injustice (not to mention impossible). The only conceivable solution to stop the injustices, rather than worry or point fingers at who's identity is "real" or "legitimate", is to simply have two states, one for Israelis, and one for Palestinians, with defined borders (the 1967 borders), living side by side in peace and security. SHdpaoishAPSoiijASdiSo

 

[editec]

Haven't been able to understand either side of the issue.

It's not really an issue.

It's history.

So what if most Jews are of Khazar Origins?

I TOTALLY agree.

So what if they are of Semite origin?

They're not, but again I agree.

People who consider themselves Jewish are Jewish.

Yup! And who gives a fig what the NAZIs thought about it?

I'm all for historical accuracy and factual analysis and all of that stuff, but at the same time its absolutely useless to undermine anybody's sense of identity, whether Jewish, or Palestinian, or American, or Costa Rican.

I don't think, and neither do you according to what you just wrote, that this historical fact in ANY WAY undermines anybody's Jewishness.

Some Jews, of course, disagree.

Why?

I really don't know. Partially, I think it's because this is relatively new information to some Jews.

If you're an Ashenazi Jew, you're a Jew.

If you're a Sephartic Jew, you're a Jew.

This issue comes down to that whole issue of what makes one a Jew.

And the world of Jewery has been debating that issue for a mighty long time.

 

[Freeman]

They are judaized, they are not ISRAELITES, it's a hoax...

To restore peace they should return at their home and let palestinians live in peace!

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jp-_ydl_28&feature=related]YouTube - A Palestian talks about the Nakba -4/4[/ame]

 

[rhodescholar]

they are not jews, they are judaized khazars; some minority of khazars are christians.

Mentally ill fucktard, my link proves your lies false.

Are you mentally sick? You seem to be.

 

[rhodescholar]

They're not, but again I agree.

Uhhh, genetic tests prove that they are semitic, and from israel originally.

Are facts important to anyone in this thread?

And speaking of frauds, how is it that the vast majority of pal arabs came from syria and egypt - but are not considered colonizers?

 

[P F Tinmore]

They're not, but again I agree.

Uhhh, genetic tests prove that they are semitic, and from israel originally.

Are facts important to anyone in this thread?

And speaking of frauds, how is it that the vast majority of pal arabs came from syria and egypt - but are not considered colonizers?

Sure, facts are important but are they relevant? I am a Christian even though I have no ancestors from the Holy Land. Most Christians, Muslims, and Jews can say the same thing so it is irrelevant. However, if I were to move to Bethlehem I could hardly call it "returning."

I would say that anyone who moved to Palestine to be Palestinian, a part of the existing culture, would be an immigrant. Anyone who moved to Palestine to live as part of a separate entity would be a colonizer. So you can take it from there.

 

[hipeter924]

They're not, but again I agree.

Uhhh, genetic tests prove that they are semitic, and from israel originally.

Are facts important to anyone in this thread?

And speaking of frauds, how is it that the vast majority of pal arabs came from syria and egypt - but are not considered colonizers?

Sure, facts are important but are they relevant? I am a Christian even though I have no ancestors from the Holy Land. Most Christians, Muslims, and Jews can say the same thing so it is irrelevant. However, if I were to move to Bethlehem I could hardly call it "returning."

I would say that anyone who moved to Palestine to be Palestinian, a part of the existing culture, would be an immigrant. Anyone who moved to Palestine to live as part of a separate entity would be a colonizer. So you can take it from there.

By that definition considering Jews have lived there consistently except for the expulsions by the Islamic rulers a few times, Palestinians should pack up their bags and leave. Jews have been there even before Alexander the Great, however you try to re-write history you always fail. But I am not saying they should pack up and leave, Hamas and Fatah should shut up about Islam and adopt a secular state, then we can talk 'peace'.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I say if they have been Jewish for 1300 years, then they are Jewish.

Big deal.

 

[hipeter924]

I say if they have been Jewish for 1300 years, then they are Jewish.

Big deal.

Well actually Jews only have to have lived there 600 years to defeat the retarded Arabs have always been there bullshit, and since they have been there and been Jewish for thousands, that's enough.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I say if they have been Jewish for 1300 years, then they are Jewish.

Big deal.

Well actually Jews only have to have lived there 600 years to defeat the retarded Arabs have always been there bullshit, and since they have been there and been Jewish for thousands, that's enough.

I'm referring to the "Well they're Khazars so they're not real JOOOOOOS" argument.

I don't care where they live.