911/ - A Criminal Act or an Act of War?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Dante, Jan 23, 2009.

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911 - a criminal act - an act of war - a nuanced combination of both

  1. a criminal act

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  2. an act of war

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  3. a nuanced combination of both

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  1. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    On September 11, 2001, a terrorist organization launched a hugely successful, military precision style attack on American soil. Were the events collectively known as 911,..a criminal act or an act of war?

    Can a terrorist organization declare war on a state and can we as a nation state declare war on a terrorist organization?

    In hindsight was it wise (many thought otherwise way back then) for the leadership of this nation to use terms like Homeland and War, in regards dealing with 911?


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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  2. Lycurgus
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    Lycurgus Who is Obama, really...??

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    Pre 9/11 this was pretty easy to answer. Not that terrorism was not a problem, it was, but, it did not strike deep into our personal lives, as it has in other countries.

    For me it is a opinion which comes from my heart and soul. It is war, plain and simple and one we have to win, both in battle, politically and socially.

    Good question.
     
  3. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    So for you the world (perspective wise) changed on 911?

    Do you think 911 really struck deep into the personal lives of all Americans; the lives of most; or the lives of more than a few Americans who are not related to or somehow acquainted with the victims of 911...(and no disrespect intended, by victims I do NOT include the families as for the purposes here they are already defined)?


    You are younger than I. I remember the terrorism of the latter part of the 20th century. Palestinian terrorists, Germans terrorists, Japanese terrorists, Irish terrorists, Greek terrorists, Italian terrorists and more all hell bent of striking at Americans and American interests. I know the IRA looks clean from afar, but they were closer to the terrorists and their acts upon Americans and American interests than Saddam was to Aal qeada...far closer.

    I mention the above because of a few personal things I will not bore people with....yet. :lol:

    I believe in defeating the 911 terrorists and their allies and sympathizers in all the ways you've listed above, but I for one refuse to give them all the status of warrior/fighter. Criminals all. A few real fighters on a few urban battle grounds, but...

    To me we are at war with terrorism only in an abstract sense. Sure there are a few places we've actually battled them, but those are teh exceptions that prove the rule.

    re: reasonable and honest people can and do disagree on this.

    d.

    :cool:
     
  4. elvis
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    elvis BANNED Supporting Member

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    From a technical standpoint, criminal act. Acts of war are carried out by states.
     
  5. Red Dawn
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    Red Dawn Senior Member

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    I don't think anyone outside the United States uses the term "War on Terror" anymore. Even the brits are giving it up.

    We should never have elevated Bin Ladin to the status of feared enemy warrior. That only enhanced his stature, and prestige among a certain small element of the muslim world.

    We should have always called him a criminal thug who committed an act of serial murder.
     
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  6. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    And therein lies the rub. We could not go to war against al qeada after chasing their asses out of protection by the Taliban in Afghanistan now could we?

    I tried explaining this ages ago but the www/net is full of people with blinders on who only want to screech and make shit float. serious discussion about why we went in and why we stayed is almost totally absent on forums and message boards. what often passes for serious discussion is usually conspiracy hooey.

    Think about it and think about the genius behind*how we entered Iraq and stayed there. Going in was one thing. I remember wondering why we stayed.

    Then there was all that jibber jabber (which I partook of) that said we went in without plans to occupy or withdraw. then there is the nonsense about the defense department papers/war college papers. deflection and deceit worthy of my respect.

    so we get to fund an undeclared war, in an unconventional way, against a foe who is unconventional. we have to stay in Afghanistan if we want to fund things. Serious international terrorism moves very slowly when it's purpose is to be effective and deadly on a large scale. No public could keep their attention on the ball for as long as it takes without a constant reminder.

    you get the drift?

    forget the memos, and the papers at the war college, links to organizations and individuals, focus on the money. We (the admin and others) needed ways and money to fund a war they have no power to declare.
     
  7. Dante
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    :clap2:

    I've always agreed with this sentiment, always.
     
  8. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Terrorists acts by Stateless people are not acts of War.
     
  9. Lycurgus
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    Lycurgus Who is Obama, really...??

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    I can only speak for myself and in doing so I understand terror abroad, as most of my family still lives abroad and I own property abroad, very close to the Middle East.

    9/11 very much changed it for me because it brought what I once had to travel to experience, battle and think about, right to my door step. It made it more than a reality, but, a living and breathing reality, if that makes sense.

    As for being at war, I agree, in my heart and soul the war is with the concept and act of terrorism, no matter where it lives or who it strikes. I felt that way before, but, clearly not as passionately but that is humane, until our lives are directly disrupted in some way, though we understand things, maybe even have experienced them, if we are not living with them, they simply are not as vital as other things in our life.

    My children's Godfather was ticketed to be on the PanAm flight which went down over Scotland, but, even that was not as real as 9/11 made it for me. We had family on the ship in the Med years ago where the wheelchair bound American was killed. I could go on.

    The point is, for me, today it is more than a reality I understand, it is a threat to my family directly. Selfish? Maybe to some, but, not to me, simply more natural and human.

    Our nation cannot defeat terrorism, but, the world can. It will always be there to some degree, but, we can reduce it's threat greatly. Further, I will not change my daily life because of it. I can live being prepared and alert, but, I will not live in fear and I will not let my family live that way. We didn't live that way when the Germans came storming in or when the Mongols tried to wipe out our entire family.

    As for a nation, I would hope that we take this seriously, I would hope that 9/11 effected each American and still does, just as Pearl Harbor did for my parents and so on. But I'm a realist and understand that many will forget the importance and message that 9/11 sent. They may not forget 9/11, they may always morn for the people, but, as life gets back to normal, as life stays busy and as other issues come along, people change their priorities. So, I can only speak for myself, I don't. 9/11 made it a priority which will not change until I depart this world.
     
  10. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    If a terrorist organization cannot declare war on a state ...can we as a nation state declare war on a terrorist organization?

    and

    In hindsight was it wise (many thought otherwise way back then) for the leadership of this nation to use terms like Homeland and War, in regards dealing with 911?
     

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