70% of Blacks Supported Same-Sex Marriage Ban in California

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Actually, you and your ilk are the shameful ones. claim high morals but want to deny others basic freedoms heterosexuals get and to marry the person they love with the same legal rights that heterosexuals get. When in fact homosexuals marrying has no effect on your life or your freedoms. You are still free to be an ignorant close minded fool all you want, just can't force that on others.

and nobody is forcing you to accept them, you can still have your feelings, but in this country you can't deny them rights.

Project much? I'm not against gay couples getting married, show me where I said that ANYWHERE on this forum or any other forum (i use the same screenname everywhere).

I was against forcing churches to marry them, that was it. I was in favor of my states gay marriage laws.

Look before you leap or you may just fall flat on your face

Churches were never in danger of being forced to marry gays...That is a myth.

Well thats what people were worried about and to me, under seperation of church and state, that would be the only negative about gay marriage laws. My state, when we were in the process of passing it, had language specifically protecting the churches hence my support of the bill.


@ Jillian, I felt the same thing but I had heard that "rumor/lie" and though it was true hence my only objection being forcing churches to marry. Since they aren't being forced I have no issue with it.

@ Dr Gregg see above and once again please stop projecting what you feel about other peoples opinions in this area onto me. I have very clearly stated my position and your attitude towards me in your response dishonest in the face of my position. Maybe you were not directing that comment at me specifically but instead just making a general statement, if so please clarify so I can withdraw my statement about you projecting.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

But it IS a civil rights matter. Regardless of what your stance is on it, the argument is whether or not gays are being denied a right.

How can it be seen any other way?

I dont believe marriage is a right, especially not a right granted by the government or constitution.

Show me where it says in the constitution that a man has a right to marry a woman. If you can show me that then I will agree with you that gay marriage is a right based on the same premise as the civil rights struggle "all men are created equal".

Ok?

This goes for you too NYcari. I'm willing to accept your positions if you can show me where marriage is a guaranteed right in the constitution (not gay marriage just marriage in general).

how can you say marriage is not a right when the supreme court has repeatedly said that marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL right?

there are over 1,000 rights and obligations conferred BY THE STATE upon someone's marriage. there is no right to marry outside of what is conferred by government because even religious ceremonies acknowledge that someone is pronounced marriaed 'by the powers vested... by the state of... ".

I would like a link please. I know you get very passionate about your views and just want to make sure this is as you say.


EDIT: I'd also love to hear any opinions/comments you and valerie have on my statement below (you can ignore my cheap shot at the health care bill ):

Marriage liscenses, just like drivers liscenses, are a priveledge granted to individuals by the states they reside in.

I'm 100% for gay couples being able to live together with the same rights as hetro married couples....wheter it be a marriage or a civil union. To me its a state issue and if california votes against it then the gay californians should move to my state or another state where its legal.

This is the very reason the USA is a constitutional republic. If you dont like the law you can vote with your feet and move to another state. (Unless its healthcare as the administration and congress just took that right away from us with the bill)

 

[rikules]

70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

I would Love to hear from those who Support Same-Sex Marriage, and who Try to Use the Honest Civil Rights Struggle of Blacks to Mule their Homosexual Agenda, on how Blacks Apparently Feel about Homosexuals Marrying.

As a Block, Blacks were for this More than Christians...

Think about it.



peace...

I thought about it

first
MOST of these blacks ARE christians.

I would not be surprised to find that, percentage-wise, a greater proportion of blacks are CHRISTIANS (and actually go to churches) than whites.

subjecting themselves to self-indoctrination propaganda of the christian/conservative kind.

so I'm not surprised to find that a large portion of people who subject themselves to evangelical christian beliefs are ant-gay rights.

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

I contend that allowing gays the right to marry would be a financial benefit for many businesses (catering, music, party rentals, wedding gifts, limos, tux rentals, gowns, flowers, cakes) and would add to the coffers of the government via licenses

Since we all know most gays are decent and honorable people it seems awfully meanspirited, bigoted and unfair to deny them equal rights simply because you are offended by their sexual preferences...


rush limbaugh said "you do NOT have the right to be offended!"


try to remember that.

 

[manu1959]

70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

I would Love to hear from those who Support Same-Sex Marriage, and who Try to Use the Honest Civil Rights Struggle of Blacks to Mule their Homosexual Agenda, on how Blacks Apparently Feel about Homosexuals Marrying.

As a Block, Blacks were for this More than Christians...

Think about it.



peace...

I thought about it

first
MOST of these blacks ARE christians.

I would not be surprised to find that, percentage-wise, a greater proportion of blacks are CHRISTIANS (and actually go to churches) than whites.

subjecting themselves to self-indoctrination propaganda of the christian/conservative kind.

so I'm not surprised to find that a large portion of people who subject themselves to evangelical christian beliefs are ant-gay rights.

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

I contend that allowing gays the right to marry would be a financial benefit for many businesses (catering, music, party rentals, wedding gifts, limos, tux rentals, gowns, flowers, cakes) and would add to the coffers of the government via licenses

Since we all know most gays are decent and honorable people it seems awfully meanspirited, bigoted and unfair to deny them equal rights simply because you are offended by their sexual preferences...


rush limbaugh said "you do NOT have the right to be offended!"


try to remember that.

do you live in california....do you know what rights gay couples do or do not currently have....

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

Sorry if you didn't like me paring down your post but this is the one specific part I wanted to talk to you about. See the post of mine right above yours? What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind.

Also I'm still waiting on where the constitution says hetro couples have the right to get married or where the supreme court has stated that it is indeed a right hetro couples have. Yes I said hetro couples .

 

[mal]

70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

I would Love to hear from those who Support Same-Sex Marriage, and who Try to Use the Honest Civil Rights Struggle of Blacks to Mule their Homosexual Agenda, on how Blacks Apparently Feel about Homosexuals Marrying.

As a Block, Blacks were for this More than Christians...

Think about it.



peace...

I thought about it

first
MOST of these blacks ARE christians.

I would not be surprised to find that, percentage-wise, a greater proportion of blacks are CHRISTIANS (and actually go to churches) than whites.

subjecting themselves to self-indoctrination propaganda of the christian/conservative kind.

so I'm not surprised to find that a large portion of people who subject themselves to evangelical christian beliefs are ant-gay rights.

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

I contend that allowing gays the right to marry would be a financial benefit for many businesses (catering, music, party rentals, wedding gifts, limos, tux rentals, gowns, flowers, cakes) and would add to the coffers of the government via licenses

Since we all know most gays are decent and honorable people it seems awfully meanspirited, bigoted and unfair to deny them equal rights simply because you are offended by their sexual preferences...


rush limbaugh said "you do NOT have the right to be offended!"


try to remember that.

do you live in california....do you know what rights gay couples do or do not currently have....

There is one thing FOR CERTAIN...

No Consenting Aged Non-Related Adult in California is Denied the Right of Marriage...



peace...

 

[rikules]

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

Sorry if you didn't like me paring down your post but this is the one specific part I wanted to talk to you about. See the post of mine right above yours? What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind.

Also I'm still waiting on where the constitution says hetro couples have the right to get married or where the supreme court has stated that it is indeed a right hetro couples have. Yes I said hetro couples .

"What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind."




I think that technically you are right.

I've perused the constitution enough to know that marriage is NOT LISTED as a right.

however
I also know that if you define "all of our rights" based upon what is actually listed in the constitution then we might as well be living in communist china.

freedom of speech, press
to own guns
a speedy trial....
voting....

well
that's it for our rights.


rather a small list, wouldn't you say?

nothing like what we might expect from a country that prides itself on freedom and rights

that being the case I recommend that we use the constitution less a means to deny people rights.... "that aint in the constitution so you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to do it...."

and more as means to ALLOW them rights...
"well...the constitution does NOT ACTUALLY SAY that you can't smoke pot...." so I guess you DO have the right



I think that morally and ethically it is disgraceful to deny gays equal rights simply because it isn't listed in the constitution

 

[mal]

I think that morally and ethically it is disgraceful to deny gays equal rights simply because it isn't listed in the constitution

No Consenting Aged Non-Related Adult in California is Denied the Right of Marriage...



peace...

 

[Ravi]

and I still contend that gays fighting for civil rights is just like anyone else who ever had to fight for them

blacks
women
atheists


as American citizens I believe that gays should NOT be denied any rights that heteros have, including the right to marry the person of their own choice

Sorry if you didn't like me paring down your post but this is the one specific part I wanted to talk to you about. See the post of mine right above yours? What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind.

Also I'm still waiting on where the constitution says hetro couples have the right to get married or where the supreme court has stated that it is indeed a right hetro couples have. Yes I said hetro couples .

"What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind."




I think that technically you are right.

I've perused the constitution enough to know that marriage is NOT LISTED as a right.

however
I also know that if you define "all of our rights" based upon what is actually listed in the constitution then we might as well be living in communist china.

freedom of speech, press
to own guns
a speedy trial....
voting....

well
that's it for our rights.


rather a small list, wouldn't you say?

nothing like what we might expect from a country that prides itself on freedom and rights

that being the case I recommend that we use the constitution less a means to deny people rights.... "that aint in the constitution so you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to do it...."

and more as means to ALLOW them rights...
"well...the constitution does NOT ACTUALLY SAY that you can't smoke pot...." so I guess you DO have the right



I think that morally and ethically it is disgraceful to deny gays equal rights simply because it isn't listed in the constitution

In the case of marriage...there isn't a "right" to marry but if you grant one group the privilege to do so you must grant the other group the same privilege...else you ARE violating their rights.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Project much? I'm not against gay couples getting married, show me where I said that ANYWHERE on this forum or any other forum (i use the same screenname everywhere).

I was against forcing churches to marry them, that was it. I was in favor of my states gay marriage laws.

Look before you leap or you may just fall flat on your face

Churches were never in danger of being forced to marry gays...That is a myth.

Well thats what people were worried about and to me, under seperation of church and state, that would be the only negative about gay marriage laws. My state, when we were in the process of passing it, had language specifically protecting the churches hence my support of the bill.


@ Jillian, I felt the same thing but I had heard that "rumor/lie" and though it was true hence my only objection being forcing churches to marry. Since they aren't being forced I have no issue with it.

@ Dr Gregg see above and once again please stop projecting what you feel about other peoples opinions in this area onto me. I have very clearly stated my position and your attitude towards me in your response dishonest in the face of my position. Maybe you were not directing that comment at me specifically but instead just making a general statement, if so please clarify so I can withdraw my statement about you projecting.

Projecting what? YOu are lying and spinning shit so you don't sound like a ignorant close minded homophobe. THere is no rational argument other than being a homophobe as to why gays can't marry who they love while heterosexuals can't. YOu can believe all you want, whatever you want, but you can't deny people rights that are granted to others.

And drivers license is a privilege, but you don't see homosexuals being denied licenses because they are gay now do you?

I don't even think you know what "projecting" means, seems to be your argument for everything. Maybe you are the one projecting your shame of having homosexuals thoughts on the rest of the homosexuals

 

[rikules]

Sorry if you didn't like me paring down your post but this is the one specific part I wanted to talk to you about. See the post of mine right above yours? What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind.

Also I'm still waiting on where the constitution says hetro couples have the right to get married or where the supreme court has stated that it is indeed a right hetro couples have. Yes I said hetro couples .

"What do you think of my comments that marriage and a liscense to marry is a priveledge, not a right, granted by states just like drivers liscenses? I'm looking for dissagreements so I can either validate or invalidate that statement in my own mind."




I think that technically you are right.

I've perused the constitution enough to know that marriage is NOT LISTED as a right.

however
I also know that if you define "all of our rights" based upon what is actually listed in the constitution then we might as well be living in communist china.

freedom of speech, press
to own guns
a speedy trial....
voting....

well
that's it for our rights.


rather a small list, wouldn't you say?

nothing like what we might expect from a country that prides itself on freedom and rights

that being the case I recommend that we use the constitution less a means to deny people rights.... "that aint in the constitution so you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to do it...."

and more as means to ALLOW them rights...
"well...the constitution does NOT ACTUALLY SAY that you can't smoke pot...." so I guess you DO have the right



I think that morally and ethically it is disgraceful to deny gays equal rights simply because it isn't listed in the constitution

In the case of marriage...there isn't a "right" to marry but if you grant one group the privilege to do so you must grant the other group the same privilege...else you ARE violating their rights.

OK.

I have no problem with that.

there is no group whom I would want to deny the right to marry

 

[Titanic Sailor]

hey, 96% of blacks voted for Obama too. They are not racists, no way. Can't be.

 

[Jarhead]

hey, 96% of blacks voted for Obama too. They are not racists, no way. Can't be.

95% of blacks vote democratic regardless of the color of the candidate.

If you want to see if racism played a role, I suggest you compare Hillary's black vote to Obama's black vote in the primaries.

 

[Valerie]

I dont believe marriage is a right, especially not a right granted by the government or constitution.

Show me where it says in the constitution that a man has a right to marry a woman. If you can show me that then I will agree with you that gay marriage is a right based on the same premise as the civil rights struggle "all men are created equal".

Ok?

This goes for you too NYcari. I'm willing to accept your positions if you can show me where marriage is a guaranteed right in the constitution (not gay marriage just marriage in general).

how can you say marriage is not a right when the supreme court has repeatedly said that marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL right?

there are over 1,000 rights and obligations conferred BY THE STATE upon someone's marriage. there is no right to marry outside of what is conferred by government because even religious ceremonies acknowledge that someone is pronounced marriaed 'by the powers vested... by the state of... ".

I would like a link please. I know you get very passionate about your views and just want to make sure this is as you say.


EDIT: I'd also love to hear any opinions/comments you and valerie have on my statement below (you can ignore my cheap shot at the health care bill ):

Marriage liscenses, just like drivers liscenses, are a priveledge granted to individuals by the states they reside in.

I'm 100% for gay couples being able to live together with the same rights as hetro married couples....wheter it be a marriage or a civil union. To me its a state issue and if california votes against it then the gay californians should move to my state or another state where its legal.

This is the very reason the USA is a constitutional republic. If you dont like the law you can vote with your feet and move to another state. (Unless its healthcare as the administration and congress just took that right away from us with the bill)

This is what people mean when they say "you can't vote on civil rights"...States can NOT choose to ignore the 14th Amendment, so it is just a matter of taking the proper legal course to equal treatment under the law.


>

DEFINITIONS

It is important to note at the outset the distinction in the types of marriages that exist in the United States and throughout the world, namely civil marriage and religious marriage. In addition, there are significant legal distinctions among civil marriage, civil union, and domestic partnership, although these terms are often incorrectly used interchangeably.

Civil Marriage and Religious Marriage

Civil marriage is a legal status established through a license issued by a state government. Such status grants legal rights to, and imposes legal obligations on, the 2 married partners.

Depending on the faith, religious marriage is considered to be a liturgical rite, a sacrament, or a solemnization of the uniting of 2 persons and is recognized by the hierarchy and adherents of that religious group. The hierarchy, clergy, and in some cases members of religious organizations, establish their own criteria and rules for who may marry within their assemblies. They are not bound by statutory definitions of marriage. Civil government entities in the United States have no authority over a religious organization's autonomy.

In the United States, couples may choose to marry in a civil ceremony, a religious ceremony, or both. In the United States, state governments grant priests, rabbis, clerics, ministers, and other clergy presiding over a religious marriage the authority of the state to endorse the marriage license and establish a civil marriage. Certain public officials in the United States, such as judges, justices of the peace, and others, also have the authority to establish civil marriage.

By contrast, in many European countries and elsewhere in the world, religious officials have no authority to establish civil marriages. If couples in these countries wish to participate in the marriage ceremony of a faith tradition, religious ceremonies are often held once a civil ceremony has taken place. However, a marriage is considered legal only by means of issuance and endorsement of a marriage license by civil authorities.

Because clergy in the United States are vested with the authority of the government for purposes of civil marriage, many people are not aware of the distinction between civil and religious marriage and assume that the 2 are inextricably linked. However, the following analysis presumes this distinction. It addresses issues related to civil marriage, leaving issues of religious marriage to religious organizations and individuals.

Civil Union

A civil union is a legal mechanism, sanctioned by civil authority, intended to grant same-gender couples legal status somewhat similar to civil marriage. In the United States, civil unions have been established only in Vermont and Connecticut. In these states, same-gender couples are granted the same state-level rights, benefits, and protections as those granted to heterosexual married couples. No other states recognize civil unions. As such, same-gender couples considered to be legally united in either of those states are treated as single individuals when they cross into other states.

Unlike the national governments of some foreign countries, the US federal government does not recognize civil unions. As a result, >1000 federal rights, benefits, and protections are not made available to same-gender couples joined by civil union in the United States.

Domestic Partnership

A domestic partnership is a relationship between 2 individuals, often but not necessarily of the same gender, who live together and mutually support one another as spouses but who are not legally joined in a civil marriage or a civil union. Some same-gender couples enter into domestic partnership agreements to create legally enforceable contracts involving property, finances, inheritance, and/or health care. Domestic partnerships do not reach the same legal threshold as civil unions or civil marriages and, accordingly, do not afford couples the rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage.

The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children -- Pawelski et al. 118 (1): 349 -- Pediatrics[/QUOTE]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/105710-to-hell-with-gay-marriage-4.html#post2015354

 

[Titanic Sailor]

You can't get 95% of Irishmen to vote for an Irishman. Voting Democrat for blacks is the racist thing to do. Be honest.

 

[Samson]

hey, 96% of blacks voted for Obama too. They are not racists, no way. Can't be.

Are you saying Obama isn't half white?

 

[Father Time]

70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

I would Love to hear from those who Support Same-Sex Marriage, and who Try to Use the Honest Civil Rights Struggle of Blacks to Mule their Homosexual Agenda, on how Blacks Apparently Feel about Homosexuals Marrying.

As a Block, Blacks were for this More than Christians...

Think about it.



peace...

Ok these blacks are just as wrongheaded as everyone else that wants to vote against same sex marriage.

I'm sorry what exactly did you expect me to say?

 

[Father Time]

Absolutely does NOT Deal with my Question and the Substance Presented...

How are ya, GT?...



peace...

ok, explain the substance because I flat out will tell you. I DONT get it.

More Whites Support Same-Sex Marriage as a Percentage than Blacks?...

Even Christians do.

Yet it's White Christians who are Regularly Bashed as "Homophobes" and "Closet Cases" when they are Against Homosexual Marriage...

It is also the Honest Civil Rights Struggle that Blacks and Whites Fought that is being Molested by Homosexuals to try to Forward their Various Agendas...

Most Blacks... 70%, don't Believe that Homosexuals have a "Right" to Same-Sex Marriage.

If the Left was Honest, they would Bash Equally...

It's Obvious that they don't, and Interesting to me.



peace...

Well let's see Christians use their Christianity as an excuse to be prejudiced against gays. Blacks do not use their blackness as an excuse.

Although I will gladly bash certain bassholes (and that's not a typo) and other jerks for being against gay marriage even if they're black.

 

[Father Time]

hey, 96% of blacks voted for Obama too. They are not racists, no way. Can't be.

95% of blacks vote democratic regardless of the color of the candidate.

If you want to see if racism played a role, I suggest you compare Hillary's black vote to Obama's black vote in the primaries.

That's not fair I always thought Hillary was a power hungry vote whore and I can't say anything that mean about any of the other Democratic candidates.

 

[rikules]

Absolutely does NOT Deal with my Question and the Substance Presented...

How are ya, GT?...



peace...

ok, explain the substance because I flat out will tell you. I DONT get it.

More Whites Support Same-Sex Marriage as a Percentage than Blacks?...

Even Christians do.

Yet it's White Christians who are Regularly Bashed as "Homophobes" and "Closet Cases" when they are Against Homosexual Marriage...

It is also the Honest Civil Rights Struggle that Blacks and Whites Fought that is being Molested by Homosexuals to try to Forward their Various Agendas...

Most Blacks... 70%, don't Believe that Homosexuals have a "Right" to Same-Sex Marriage.

If the Left was Honest, they would Bash Equally...

It's Obvious that they don't, and Interesting to me.



peace...

"More Whites Support Same-Sex Marriage as a Percentage than Blacks?...

Even Christians do.

Yet it's White Christians who are Regularly Bashed as "Homophobes" and "Closet Cases" when they are Against Homosexual Marriage..."


LIBERAL and MODERATE whites and christians support gay rights/marriage

CONSERVATIVE whites and christians do NOT.

consequently...

white CONSERVATIVE christians are bashed when they support discrimination and bigotry


"It is also the Honest Civil Rights Struggle that Blacks and Whites Fought that is being Molested by Homosexuals to try to Forward their Various Agendas..."


(when you spread MISINFORMATION it is the same as LYING)

blacks and LIBERAL/ACLU whites fought against CONSERVATIVE whites for civil rights

If you were honest...you wouldn't be spreading lies....