60 Years of Apartheid

[Shogun]

Yesterday, Obama said any agreement concerning Palestinians must "preserve Israel's identity as a Jewish state."

What does that mean, "a Jewish state" ?

Is Israel a democracy or a theocracy? Or a little of both?

uh, you know.. just like GERMANY WAS AN ARYAN COUNTRY.


jewish jackboots are on the march.

 

[GHook93]

Which leads me to ask, why can't atheists have their own country?

They did you remember the USSR!

 

[GHook93]

You seem to be forgetting that before 1948 the entire area WAS Palestine. Gaza and the West bank were only 22% of pre-1948 Palestine, which the Palestenians agreed to keep. That means that they ceded over three quarters of their previous land for the creation of Israel. Obviously Egypt and Jordan didn't want Palestinions in their land either, but why were they in Egypt and Jordan anyway? Because they got kicked out of PALESTINE (key word).

WRONG, it was the British Mandates, before the it was part of the Ottoman empire, before that it was under the Arab Crusaders, before that it was in the hands of the Byzantine Empire, before that in Roman hands and before that in Jewish hands.

During the Ottoman Empire Reign Palestine/Israel was a very barrier country. It wasn't until the later 1800s and during the British Mandates that the Arab populations started to rise. Yes they were around since the Arab Crusades (the Palestinians took the name in which the Romans gave to the lands over a half-century before the Arabs arrived).

Haha, you've never seen a map of the proposal, have you? The Israeli proposal does this: it takes Palestine, already split up in three parts, and then chops up the West Bank into little pieces, keeping the absolutely crucial water resources of the region, leaving an archipelago of poor palestinian enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and development.

Have you? You have a point with Jerusalem, but they are being offered equal land for equal land taken, including a land bridge from gaza to the WB.

Just take a look at the walls that they're building- that should give you a good picture of what the proposal would leave palestine with.

I have seen the wall. It wouldn't be necessary if suicide bombers didn't have a knack for blowing up markets of civilians. The Saudis are building a fence to keep out terrorist from Iraq. South Korea protects itself from North Korea. Why is that the Jews who face a larger threat from terrorist get the shaft? Probably because people are struck with the same disease as a douche-bag like Shogun.

from Amnesty International:

"The 700-kilometre fence/wall that Israel is building through theWest Bank, from north to south and through parts of Jerusalem, is causing massive long-term damage to Palestinian life and is undermining the ability of those living in dozens of villages and communities to realise a wide range of their human rights.3

More than half of the length of the fence/wall has been completed and work is
proceeding on the rest. Already, tens of thousands of olive and other trees and areas of fertile agricultural land have been uprooted and destroyed, dozens of homes have been demolished, and tens of thousands of Palestinians have been cut off from their land and means of earning a living."

What do you want them to do? Be sitting duck for suicide attacks. Since the fence has been built there have be no suicide attacks. I don't think that is a coincidence.

On the other hand, Amnesty International is obviously a bunch of communist anti-semites that must be lying and conspiring for the destruction of Israel. Duh!

No, I have no doubt that the fence is causing hardship on the Palestinians and some Israelis (probably even some wildlife); however, the alternative of being sitting ducks is 1 that no rational government should make.

 

[Charles_Main]

umm err, what happened to transjordan

 

[Epsilon Delta]

WRONG, it was the British Mandates, before the it was part of the Ottoman empire, before that it was under the Arab Crusaders, before that it was in the hands of the Byzantine Empire, before that in Roman hands and before that in Jewish hands.

During the Ottoman Empire Reign Palestine/Israel was a very barrier country. It wasn't until the later 1800s and during the British Mandates that the Arab populations started to rise. Yes they were around since the Arab Crusades (the Palestinians took the name in which the Romans gave to the lands over a half-century before the Arabs arrived).

Uh, so? It doesn't matter what their name was and who controlled it from empire to empire. The point is that people lived there. Real peoples with families and lives. It wasn't just empty land- somebody lived there, and eventually they became known as 'Palestinians'.

Have you? You have a point with Jerusalem, but they are being offered equal land for equal land taken, including a land bridge from gaza to the WB.

uh, yes. And now that I have more than 15 posts I can link it for you so you can take a look at where the walls are being made - http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/newpdf/WestBankWall.jpg

There it's very clear: a Palestine right in the middle of Israel, West Bank choped into pieces with Israeli settlements inside, with Israeli military bases on the crucial and convinient location right next to the Dead Sea and the river. Hard to see how a land bride from Gaza would be incredibly useful when you have to pass by a couple of foreign checkpoints if you wanna get from one side of your 'OWN' country to the other- five times over. A good image is also available from the aforementioned Amnesty International 2007 Israel Report, which I suggest you read. You have to remember, this wall is INSIDE the West Bank, not around it. So much for 'keeping 'em terrorists out', more like keeping expansionism right in. Besides, equal land for equal land taken? Desert land is not the same as fertile river land, my friend. What Russia wouldn't give to 'exchange' land from the Ukrain, Poland, and Belorus to Siberia.

I have seen the wall. It wouldn't be necessary if suicide bombers didn't have a knack for blowing up markets of civilians. The Saudis are building a fence to keep out terrorist from Iraq. South Korea protects itself from North Korea. Why is that the Jews who face a larger threat from terrorist get the shaft? Probably because people are struck with the same disease as a douche-bag like Shogun.

Suicide bombers wouldn't be necessary if Palestine wasn't under OCCUPATION. I don't know about you, but if MY country was under occupation, I'd consider it. Not defending the practice, just keeping it as real as possible. Sure, Israeli's might face threat from crazy whackos, but Palestine face a threat from an Israeli occupation, fencing, and checkpoints. I guess they just don't 'matter' enough, though. The strong do what the will, the weak do as they must.

What do you want them to do? Be sitting duck for suicide attacks. Since the fence has been built there have be no suicide attacks. I don't think that is a coincidence.

No, I have no doubt that the fence is causing hardship on the Palestinians and some Israelis (probably even some wildlife); however, the alternative of being sitting ducks is 1 that no rational government should make.

What do I want them to do? Leave Palestinians the 22% of their country's land that they've kept and move out completely. 1967 borders and an independent Palestine.

 

[editec]

Israel is a Jewish Country. Sometimes that's used as a religious identification, sometimes as an ethnic one and sometimes as a cultural identification. The reason for that is that Jews have been defined differently by the places in which they've lived.

Israel a parliamentary democracy.

I'm curious, though, why don't people ask questions about why the United Arab Emirates is an Arab country?

Because they don't PRETEND to be anything but a culturally ethnocentric state, perhaps?

I don't blame the Isrealis for wanting their nation to be culturally dominated by Jews.

That's why I am sympathetic to the complaint that the single state solution is unworkable.

But if Isreal wants a two state solution to work, then the lands ceded to the Palestinians have to be viable and the Jewish settlers have to get out and stay out.

The PA lands are no more viable than the sham nations created by the south African aparthied government created when they were trying to find some way to deal with the Blacks.

 

[Shogun]

Dont worry about Gayhook and the neg rep he's spread around...


he CLEARLY hates gentiles and pretty much proves that jews are as capable of the brain numbing hate that Aryans got caught up in.

 

[Shogun]

I don't blame the Isrealis for wanting their nation to be culturally dominated by Jews.

If you can't make the EXACT same statement about white people and arabs then welcome to your racist double standard.

 

[Ravi]

Shog, I'll pay for your plane ticket if you go over to Israel and straighten them out. Take our constitution with you and force them to abide by it.

 

[Shogun]

no need when we can go ahead and remove them from our tax and military handouts and let them see what it's like not to have a pantleg to hide behind.

 

[editec]

I don't blame the Isrealis for wanting their nation to be culturally dominated by Jews.

If you can't make the EXACT same statement about white people and arabs then welcome to your racist double standard.

But I can.

One doesn't have to be racist to want to live in a nation which is dominated by a particular ethnic value system.

If suddenly I found myself living someplace with wildly different values than now, I'd seek to live someplace where I felt more like I fit in.

That doesn't make me a racist. It doesn't make the jews racists, or the Arabs racists, either.

That's human nature.

 

[Shogun]

But I can.

One doesn't have to be racist to want to live in a nation which is dominated by a particular ethnic value system.

If suddenly I found myself living someplace with wildly different values than now, I'd seek to live someplace where I felt more like I fit in.

That doesn't make me a racist. It doesn't make the jews racists, or the Arabs racists, either.

That's human nature.

HAHAHA!


ok, dude. At least you and David Duke agree on SOMETHING.

You just validated every reason that those against civil rights used as an excuse to marginalize blacks in a WHITE america. So, then, I guess you don't fault the south for segregation too then, eh? I mean, if WHITE PEOPLE just want to live in a nice WHITE southern state then who are blacks to rock the boat with pesky little I have a dream speaches, eh?


WOW. the length some people will go to rationalize never ceases to amaze me.



We didn't have any segregation at the Cotton Club. No. The Cotton Club was wide open, it was free.
Cab Calloway

 

[Shogun]

Segregation was wrong when it was forced by white people, and I believe it is still wrong when it is requested by black people.
Coretta Scott King


I think segregation is bad, I think it's wrong, it's immoral. I'd fight against it with every breath in my body, but you don't need to sit next to a white person to learn how to read and write. The NAACP needs to say that.
Clarence Thomas





Segregation in the South is honest, open and aboveboard. Of the two systems, or styles of segregation, the Northern and the Southern, there is no doubt whatever in my mind which is the better.
Strom Thurmond

Segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever!
George C. Wallace

I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.
George C. Wallace

We do not show the Negro how to overcome segregation, but we teach him how to accept it as final and just.
Carter G. Woodson


And thus goes segregation which is the most far-reaching development in the history of the Negro since the enslavement of the race.
Carter G. Woodson



Which quotes do YOU agree with, dude? Im up there at the top.