60 Percent of U.S. Military ‘Train and Equip’ Projects Failed

[longknife]

I bet the morale is lower than whale poop. You bust your butt and do your best – for nothing!

According to a report Wednesday from the government accountability office, the Global Train and Equip program was not successful in enhancing the capabilities of individual forces in 13 of 21 projects.

While the assessment describes some positive outcomes, the military spent some $2 billion on the program in 2016 and 2017.

According to the watchdog, misuse of equipment, manpower shortages, and flawed project proposal designs all contributed to a low success rate of operations.

From Audit: 60 Percent of U.S. Military ‘Train and Equip’ Projects Failed | One America News Network

 

[007]

Probably has a lot to do with the quality of the recruits... and that's in the toilet...

Up to 75 Percent of US Youth Ineligible for Military Service

 

[longknife]

Probably has a lot to do with the quality of the recruits... and that's in the toilet...

Up to 75 Percent of US Youth Ineligible for Military Service

I think it goes way beyond that. Did you read the article?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We need a massive expansion of the JROTC programs in high school to help with the recruiting efforts. Give the new recruits E-3 for completing the program when they enlist instead of the pittance they get now.

 

[harmonica]

link says page not found
this is not surprising at all!!!
...what do you think happens to all the $$$$ we give in foreign aid/to the UN/to the Palestinians/etc etc??? if there is corruption here in the US with tax $$$, you know there is corruption wherever we send $$$/equipment/etc overseas
...a perfect example would be Vietnam

 

[whitehall]

What are "military projects"? Are they different from strategic military missions? President Trump has only been in office for about a year and a half so are the "shocking revelations" about "military projects" actually part of political propaganda? Personally I'd be satisfied if as much as 40% of the Pentagon's plans actually worked.

 

[Sunni Man]

The solution would be to recruit more gays and transgenders into all branches of the military. ....

(that's what the liberals would say)

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I bet the morale is lower than whale poop. You bust your butt and do your best – for nothing!

According to a report Wednesday from the government accountability office, the Global Train and Equip program was not successful in enhancing the capabilities of individual forces in 13 of 21 projects.

While the assessment describes some positive outcomes, the military spent some $2 billion on the program in 2016 and 2017.

According to the watchdog, misuse of equipment, manpower shortages, and flawed project proposal designs all contributed to a low success rate of operations.

From Audit: 60 Percent of U.S. Military ‘Train and Equip’ Projects Failed | One America News Network

Only $2 billion? That's cheap when it comes to wasted funds!

 

[longknife]

I think a lot of revelations like this will come from the audit Secretary Mattis ordered. A whole lot of wasteful crap is being uncovered.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Probably has a lot to do with the quality of the recruits... and that's in the toilet...

Up to 75 Percent of US Youth Ineligible for Military Service

Another item the article fails to mention is tattoos. For the Army, tattoos on the face, neck or hands that are visible in uniform are disqualifying.

BTW, I love the picture accompanying the article! WTF are those people supposed to be? Halloween costumes?

 

[longknife]

I think the main reason such missions fail is the lack of quality of those our guys are supposed to be training. You can't teach someone initiative who believes he can only act on orders he receives from above. Initiative is what makes our military the best in the world.

 

[evenflow1969]

Probably has a lot to do with the quality of the recruits... and that's in the toilet...

Up to 75 Percent of US Youth Ineligible for Military Service

Another item the article fails to mention is tattoos. For the Army, tattoos on the face, neck or hands that are visible in uniform are disqualifying.

BTW, I love the picture accompanying the article! WTF are those people supposed to be? Halloween costumes?

Attention deficit disorder disqualifies! Thank you drug companies for tricking our teachers into drugging our children and there by making them unfit for military. There is likely the big problem! Good recruits singled out for bull shit mental disorder

 

[Mushroom]

We need a massive expansion of the JROTC programs in high school to help with the recruiting efforts. Give the new recruits E-3 for completing the program when they enlist instead of the pittance they get now.

Uhhh, they have been doing that for decades now. Even back in 1980 if you did 3 years in Army JROTC, you enlisted at the in the Army at the rank of E-3. Each branch of service has different standards for rank based upon JROTC service (known as "Advanced Enlisted Rank").

In the Army, 1 to 2 years of JROTC gets you in at the rank of E-2. 3 or 4 years gets you in at the rank of E-3. I myself used this in 2007 when I joined the Army. Because of my 14 years of broken service, they tried to bring me in at E-2. I simply told the recruiter to check my transcripts, I had 4 years of JROTC. He was incredulous that I was actually trying to use JROTC 24 years later, but I was no dummy and knew the difference between E-2 and E-3.

In the Navy, you need 2 years of JROTC to enter as an E-2, 3 or 4 years to enter as an E-3. The Air Force has the exact same standard.

The only major difference is the Marine Corps. Completion of 2 or more years in JROTC, and you enter as an E-2. That's it, a single rank. I myself was one of a handful of "Contract PFC's" in my boot camp platoon, most of us were because of JROTC. For decades there have been "sea stories" of "Contract Lance" floating around, but they are simply not true. The closest I had ever seen in my 10 years in the Corps was my own platoon Honor Grad, and 1 or 2 others who were Contract PFC, and were promoted to Meritorious Lance Corporal at graduation.

The Honor Grad in my platoon was unusual, being an "old man" of 24, who had served 4 years in the Air Force before joining. And they typically only promote a single individual in this way per platoon, so they really are very rare. And in my experience, most then stall at that rank for years until their peers catch up to them (it is simply how the point promotion system works in the Corps). But there are many ways to get beyond that afterwards. Myself, I recruited 2 individuals in my off-hours which earned me the 40 points extra which got me promoted to Corporal almost a year quicker than my peers.

And JROTC is not all that effective in recruiting. Out of the hundreds I took the program with in the early 1980's, I only know of 10 others who actually enlisted. Out of that 11 (including myself), only 2 of us went beyond a single enlistment. I am the only one that served until retirement.

It is a great program, do not think I say otherwise. But it is not a recruitment tool. Primarily the idea is that it will graduate students with a greater understanding and appreciation of the military, and it's role. And in this I have seen it work first-hand. When I talk with my friends from High School, those I served with in JROTC had a much greater understanding of the military than those who never took the course.

 

[Mushroom]

Personally I'd be satisfied if as much as 40% of the Pentagon's plans actually worked.

Actually, most military programs die before they even really get implemented. Sometimes through beaurocracy, sometimes through politics.

I remember in 2007 we were told about the "Future of Air Defense" by 2017. In that, the Battalions as we knew them then (4 PATRIOT Batteries of 6 launchers each) would cease to exist. In the future, there would be 3 MEADS Batteries, a THAAD Battery, and possibly an AVENGER Battery in each Battalion.

Well, it is now 2018, and that has not happened at all. In 2009 the MEADS program was largely killed by the Obama Administration, it was only able to limp along because Germany and Italy were also involved in the development. Both of those nations are now fielding the equipment, but there is no plan at this time for the US to do so.

And for all the success of THAAD, it is still only 2 individual Batteries. Once again, a victim to the Obama era cuts. Because of this, the "PATRIOT Battalion" of 2018 looks exactly like it did in 2007. And for all the success of "AEGIS Ashore", it has yet to be really deployed either.

 

[Desperado]

BTW, I love the picture accompanying the article! WTF are those people supposed to be? Halloween costumes?

Auditions for the Village People

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We need a massive expansion of the JROTC programs in high school to help with the recruiting efforts. Give the new recruits E-3 for completing the program when they enlist instead of the pittance they get now.

Uhhh, they have been doing that for decades now. Even back in 1980 if you did 3 years in Army JROTC, you enlisted at the in the Army at the rank of E-3. Each branch of service has different standards for rank based upon JROTC service (known as "Advanced Enlisted Rank").

In the Army, 1 to 2 years of JROTC gets you in at the rank of E-2. 3 or 4 years gets you in at the rank of E-3. I myself used this in 2007 when I joined the Army. Because of my 14 years of broken service, they tried to bring me in at E-2. I simply told the recruiter to check my transcripts, I had 4 years of JROTC. He was incredulous that I was actually trying to use JROTC 24 years later, but I was no dummy and knew the difference between E-2 and E-3.

In the Navy, you need 2 years of JROTC to enter as an E-2, 3 or 4 years to enter as an E-3. The Air Force has the exact same standard.

The only major difference is the Marine Corps. Completion of 2 or more years in JROTC, and you enter as an E-2. That's it, a single rank. I myself was one of a handful of "Contract PFC's" in my boot camp platoon, most of us were because of JROTC. For decades there have been "sea stories" of "Contract Lance" floating around, but they are simply not true. The closest I had ever seen in my 10 years in the Corps was my own platoon Honor Grad, and 1 or 2 others who were Contract PFC, and were promoted to Meritorious Lance Corporal at graduation.

The Honor Grad in my platoon was unusual, being an "old man" of 24, who had served 4 years in the Air Force before joining. And they typically only promote a single individual in this way per platoon, so they really are very rare. And in my experience, most then stall at that rank for years until their peers catch up to them (it is simply how the point promotion system works in the Corps). But there are many ways to get beyond that afterwards. Myself, I recruited 2 individuals in my off-hours which earned me the 40 points extra which got me promoted to Corporal almost a year quicker than my peers.

And JROTC is not all that effective in recruiting. Out of the hundreds I took the program with in the early 1980's, I only know of 10 others who actually enlisted. Out of that 11 (including myself), only 2 of us went beyond a single enlistment. I am the only one that served until retirement.

It is a great program, do not think I say otherwise. But it is not a recruitment tool. Primarily the idea is that it will graduate students with a greater understanding and appreciation of the military, and it's role. And in this I have seen it work first-hand. When I talk with my friends from High School, those I served with in JROTC had a much greater understanding of the military than those who never took the course.

I work for Army recruiting right now. Their information says otherwise. When I taught in high schools almost every recruit came from the ROTC programs if we had one.

Myself and two of my buddies joined the Navy, one joined the Marines, one joined the Army and one joined the Air National Guard. That was almost our entire senior class in AFJROTC. Notice how many joined the Chair Force? Two other guys became a librarian and a Toyota factory worker.

All of us started at E-3. The Chair Force would only give us E-2. I made E-4 after 9 months. In the Chair Force, I might have made that by the end of my first enlistment.

I lost track of one of my Navy buddies, but the other retired after 20 years I did 12 years active and 11 reserve total. The Marine retired as a full bird Colonel. The Army guy did two tours. I also lost track of the Air National Guard guy.

 

[Mushroom]

Myself and two of my buddies joined the Navy, one joined the Marines, one joined the Army and one joined the Air National Guard. That was almost our entire senior class in AFJROTC. Notice how many joined the Chair Force? Two other guys became a librarian and a Toyota factory worker.

How small were your graduating classes? Sheesh, almost your entire class was 5 people?

On average, probably 40 graduated from the schools I went to each year. Each of our Battalions averaged from 100-120 Cadets at any time. One that did graduate during my Sophomore year joined the Army, he showed up in uniform at the start of my Junior year (he was the one of two to do so during my first year in, the other joined the Navy). I know of 1 that joined Marines that graduated during my Junior year, that's it.

In my own class, I joined the Marines. Another joined the Army, and another the Navy. The biggest group I know was the one that followed me, 3 of them joined the Marine Corps (I had a lot to do with that), 1 the Air Force, and another the Navy. One odd-ball the year after me joined the Army National Guard between Junior and Senior years, then after graduation switched over and joined the Marines. My wife (the year before I graduated) and her sister (the year after I graduated) did not join at all, nor did the vast majority of those I was with.

A friend I knew from when I was 2 was in AFJROTC in school, then joined the Coast Guard.

Of course, I am quite sure that things have changed in the more recent decades. When I was in school, we were still suffering from "shock" of Vietnam. We were early in the first term of the President that made us proud to be Americans again, and many simply took the program as a way to avoid PE. In California (where I graduated, I went to 2 different High Schools) it was also amazingly popular with the Marching Band. The director encouraged his players to join, in order to get a better understanding of what "marching" was like.

But most of those never went beyond their Junior year, as did many others. In Los Angeles, PE was only a required course for Sophomores and Juniors, so we saw a lot of drops among the Senior class. I know that in Idaho the drop rate was much lower, but the Battalion there also had a much more active Corps, with a great many activities other than just attending class (the Rifle Team, with our own .22 caliber range in the basement was very popular among the hunters).

I would not be surprised to learn that things have changed a little bit since I was a Cadet. Of course, from 1980-1983 the military in many ways was still barely tolerated. And relatively few students would actually consider a "career" in the military. I know when I told that to my guidance councilor at the start of my Senior year, she thought I was delusional. "Nobody makes a career in the military, you only go there for a few years until you figure out what you really want to do" was her response.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Myself and two of my buddies joined the Navy, one joined the Marines, one joined the Army and one joined the Air National Guard. That was almost our entire senior class in AFJROTC. Notice how many joined the Chair Force? Two other guys became a librarian and a Toyota factory worker.

How small were your graduating classes? Sheesh, almost your entire class was 5 people?

On average, probably 40 graduated from the schools I went to each year. Each of our Battalions averaged from 100-120 Cadets at any time. One that did graduate during my Sophomore year joined the Army, he showed up in uniform at the start of my Junior year (he was the one of two to do so during my first year in, the other joined the Navy). I know of 1 that joined Marines that graduated during my Junior year, that's it.

In my own class, I joined the Marines. Another joined the Army, and another the Navy. The biggest group I know was the one that followed me, 3 of them joined the Marine Corps (I had a lot to do with that), 1 the Air Force, and another the Navy. One odd-ball the year after me joined the Army National Guard between Junior and Senior years, then after graduation switched over and joined the Marines. My wife (the year before I graduated) and her sister (the year after I graduated) did not join at all, nor did the vast majority of those I was with.

A friend I knew from when I was 2 was in AFJROTC in school, then joined the Coast Guard.

Of course, I am quite sure that things have changed in the more recent decades. When I was in school, we were still suffering from "shock" of Vietnam. We were early in the first term of the President that made us proud to be Americans again, and many simply took the program as a way to avoid PE. In California (where I graduated, I went to 2 different High Schools) it was also amazingly popular with the Marching Band. The director encouraged his players to join, in order to get a better understanding of what "marching" was like.

But most of those never went beyond their Junior year, as did many others. In Los Angeles, PE was only a required course for Sophomores and Juniors, so we saw a lot of drops among the Senior class. I know that in Idaho the drop rate was much lower, but the Battalion there also had a much more active Corps, with a great many activities other than just attending class (the Rifle Team, with our own .22 caliber range in the basement was very popular among the hunters).

I would not be surprised to learn that things have changed a little bit since I was a Cadet. Of course, from 1980-1983 the military in many ways was still barely tolerated. And relatively few students would actually consider a "career" in the military. I know when I told that to my guidance councilor at the start of my Senior year, she thought I was delusional. "Nobody makes a career in the military, you only go there for a few years until you figure out what you really want to do" was her response.

I beat you by two years as I graduated and joined the Navy in 1978. My senior class in ROTC was small because we were the first cadets to do 4 full years. All the others were girls and they just did not join the military in the 70s. Most of them married the guys who did though. My girlfriend at the time became a flight nurse for LifeFlight.

We had two attend the Air Force Academy in the two previous years and I had two nominations myself, but I was not a pilot candidate so I wasn't selected. I went on a Navy ROTC 4 year scholarship the next year. I had two roommates in college, both were high school ROTC grads.

 

[longknife]

Once again, a thread way off topic.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Once again, a thread way off topic.

Where is your sense of adventure?

I thought your first post did a bang-up job of covering the topic. Did you want us to argue with that sound analysis?