60 Percent Of Americans Soon Will Live In States With Marriage Equality

[frigidweirdo]

No, what it is is the double standard that all of you liberals live with. Its OK if you call a group bigots and refuse to deal with them, but when a conservative does the same thing they should be locked up.

its called HYPOCRISY. deal with your reality.

No, like I said I didn't have time to write a proper response.

There's plenty of stuff that needs to be taken into consideration here.

The clear and present danger of Schenck v. US in 1919.

How much of a danger would a load of KKK supporters present to the hall of a black person? I can't answer this, the specifics of individual events that are theoretical are not possible.

For example, when discussing freedom of speech Justice Frank Murphy said "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or “fighting” words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."

This is freedom of speech and how it can be limited. If a breach of the peace were to be inevitable, then would it be allowed to go ahead?

Liberty is often only protected when another person's liberty is not put up for questioning.

What's the difference between Christians with a hotel room who don't want gay people there and a black person who has the KKK coming around?

Quite a lot actually. But I don't know the legal position of a hall. How much of a business it is, etc etc.

But in general a gay person isn't going to cause a lack of liberty for other people. They're just going to annoy people if they actually know these men are gay. The KKK is a potential problem.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why would they want to sue them? Why would a white person demand service in a black bar?

this whole debate is stupid. Let people be free to live as they choose and do business with who they choose.

Its called FREEDOM.

Is it? Was it freedom when black people couldn't vote, couldn't use the same toilets, would be refused service wherever they went? Is this the sort of "freedom" you're thinking about?

 

[Redfish]

Define "liberty" then we can continue.


Does liberty include the right of a clergyman to refuse to marry two gay men or women? Or does liberty only apply to the things you support?

Definition of ldquo liberty rdquo Collins English Dictionary

"the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction"

Which would be, the ability to do as you choose as long as it doesn't hurt or harm others, and doesn't get in the way of other people's liberty.

I don't think anyone has the right to get married in any church they choose. So.....

So you agree that any church or chappel should be free to refuse to marry two gays. Good, thats a start.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

That private organizations aren't subject to 14th Amendment jurisprudence is fundamental Constitutional doctrine.

Government has never had the authority to compel religious organizations to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple; this is not and has never been part of the issue.

Consequently there is no 'start,' 'good' or otherwise.

But yet we see lawsuits against bakers, reception halls, wedding chapels, etc for refusing to deal with gay marriages.

Tell me, why would a gay couple want to do business with anyone who does not approve of their lifestyle?

Why did black (and white) college students want to do business with the Woolworth's Lunch Counter in Nashville?

because they had that right to. BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

 

[Redfish]

Why would they want to sue them? Why would a white person demand service in a black bar?

this whole debate is stupid. Let people be free to live as they choose and do business with who they choose.

Its called FREEDOM.

Is it? Was it freedom when black people couldn't vote, couldn't use the same toilets, would be refused service wherever they went? Is this the sort of "freedom" you're thinking about?

their freedoms were taken from them.

 

[bodecea]

Definition of ldquo liberty rdquo Collins English Dictionary

"the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction"

Which would be, the ability to do as you choose as long as it doesn't hurt or harm others, and doesn't get in the way of other people's liberty.

I don't think anyone has the right to get married in any church they choose. So.....

So you agree that any church or chappel should be free to refuse to marry two gays. Good, thats a start.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

That private organizations aren't subject to 14th Amendment jurisprudence is fundamental Constitutional doctrine.

Government has never had the authority to compel religious organizations to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple; this is not and has never been part of the issue.

Consequently there is no 'start,' 'good' or otherwise.

But yet we see lawsuits against bakers, reception halls, wedding chapels, etc for refusing to deal with gay marriages.

Tell me, why would a gay couple want to do business with anyone who does not approve of their lifestyle?

Why did black (and white) college students want to do business with the Woolworth's Lunch Counter in Nashville?

because they had that right to. BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

And gay people don't have the right to use a baker? a reception hall? wedding chapels?

 

[Syriusly]

BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.
.

Let us be accurate here- just because I get tired of this Republican revisionist history crap.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act was proposed by Democratic President John F. Kennedy.
And pushed through Congress after his death by Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson.

After the bill passed the House, and was pushed through committees by Democrat Majority leader Mike Mansfield the bill was
fillibustered- by 18 Southern(Conservative) Democrats- and 1 Southern Republican. That fillibuster was overcome through the efforts of 2 Democratic and 2 Republican Senators from the North.

The final version of the bill was voted for by a majority of Democrats- and a majority of Republicans


The Senate version:[20]

• Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
• Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:[20]

• Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
• Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)

The vote was almost entirely split by North and South
The original House version:

• Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
• Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)

• Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
• Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:

• Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
• Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
• Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
• Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)

Note: 100% of Southern Republicans voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

It would be accurate to say that the 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have passed without the assistance of the Republicans.
It would also be accurate to say that the 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have even happened without the Democrats.

The (Northern)Democrats passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act with the assistance of the (Northern) Republicans.

 

[Syriusly]

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

There is no evidence that sexual orientation is a mental condition. Taking a huge leap of faith here, I will presume you are heterosexual- do you think if you received the right medication for your condition that you would suddenly be attracted to the same gender?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why would they want to sue them? Why would a white person demand service in a black bar?

this whole debate is stupid. Let people be free to live as they choose and do business with who they choose.

Its called FREEDOM.

Is it? Was it freedom when black people couldn't vote, couldn't use the same toilets, would be refused service wherever they went? Is this the sort of "freedom" you're thinking about?

their freedoms were taken from them.

You seem to think it's freedom when white people can go around discriminating against black people on a daily basis by denying them access to things like bars, cafes, hotel rooms and so on.
Why do I say this? You seem to think that it's freedom when some of these are denied to gay people. So it works the same for any group.

Freedoms have been taken from gay people to marry the person of their choice.

And yet you support this.

WHY?

 

[Skylar]

You seem to think it's freedom when white people can go around discriminating against black people on a daily basis by denying them access to things like bars, cafes, hotel rooms and so on.

It is interesting that most of the conservative arguments regarding 'liberty' have centered around denying it for someone else.

 

[initforme]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

 

[Pop23]

So you agree that any church or chappel should be free to refuse to marry two gays. Good, thats a start.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

That private organizations aren't subject to 14th Amendment jurisprudence is fundamental Constitutional doctrine.

Government has never had the authority to compel religious organizations to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple; this is not and has never been part of the issue.

Consequently there is no 'start,' 'good' or otherwise.

But yet we see lawsuits against bakers, reception halls, wedding chapels, etc for refusing to deal with gay marriages.

Tell me, why would a gay couple want to do business with anyone who does not approve of their lifestyle?

Why did black (and white) college students want to do business with the Woolworth's Lunch Counter in Nashville?

because they had that right to. BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

And gay people don't have the right to use a baker? a reception hall? wedding chapels?

Sure, marry the opposite gender like non delusional people do

 

[Pop23]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

Why would anyone feel personally threatened?

 

[Syriusly]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

I have been married to my wonderful, beautiful wife for over 20 years. I have no idea why Conservatives think my marriage would be at risk if Bob and Bill can get legally married.

 

[Seawytch]

Definition of ldquo liberty rdquo Collins English Dictionary

"the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction"

Which would be, the ability to do as you choose as long as it doesn't hurt or harm others, and doesn't get in the way of other people's liberty.

I don't think anyone has the right to get married in any church they choose. So.....

So you agree that any church or chappel should be free to refuse to marry two gays. Good, thats a start.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

That private organizations aren't subject to 14th Amendment jurisprudence is fundamental Constitutional doctrine.

Government has never had the authority to compel religious organizations to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple; this is not and has never been part of the issue.

Consequently there is no 'start,' 'good' or otherwise.

But yet we see lawsuits against bakers, reception halls, wedding chapels, etc for refusing to deal with gay marriages.

Tell me, why would a gay couple want to do business with anyone who does not approve of their lifestyle?

Why did black (and white) college students want to do business with the Woolworth's Lunch Counter in Nashville?

because they had that right to. BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

The discrimination is exactly the same...right down to the language the bigots use.

 

[Pop23]

So you agree that any church or chappel should be free to refuse to marry two gays. Good, thats a start.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

That private organizations aren't subject to 14th Amendment jurisprudence is fundamental Constitutional doctrine.

Government has never had the authority to compel religious organizations to perform a marriage ceremony for a same-sex couple; this is not and has never been part of the issue.

Consequently there is no 'start,' 'good' or otherwise.

But yet we see lawsuits against bakers, reception halls, wedding chapels, etc for refusing to deal with gay marriages.

Tell me, why would a gay couple want to do business with anyone who does not approve of their lifestyle?

Why did black (and white) college students want to do business with the Woolworth's Lunch Counter in Nashville?

because they had that right to. BTW, republicans passed the civil rights law in spite of fillibusters from prominent democrats.

Race and sexual orientation are not the same thing. One is a result of parentage and the other is a mental condition.

The discrimination is exactly the same...right down to the language the bigots use.

Wrong again

 

[Seawytch]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

I have been married to my wonderful, beautiful wife for over 20 years. I have no idea why Conservatives think my marriage would be at risk if Bob and Bill can get legally married.

I've been married to my partner of 20 years for six years now. No floods, famine or cats and dogs living together.

 

[Pop23]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

I have been married to my wonderful, beautiful wife for over 20 years. I have no idea why Conservatives think my marriage would be at risk if Bob and Bill can get legally married.

I've been married to my partner of 20 years for six years now. No floods, famine or cats and dogs living together.

That's how delusions work, they normally only effect the dilussional and their enablers.

Doesn't mean delusions are good though

 

[Skylar]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

For some folks, its a State's rights issue. For others, its a deep seeded prejudice against gays and lesbians. If their marriages are recognized as being as legally valid as straight marriages, then its harder to demean, degrade or generally treat gays and lesbians as less. As their relationships are legally equivalent. For those with less rabid prejudices against gays, gay marriage stands as one of the last societal bastions of denomralization for people and sexual acts that they consider immoral.

 

[Skylar]

I've been married to my wife for 48 great years. She has been my inspiration. She advised me to take a chance and never look back when starting my own construction business. n She worked with 3rd grade students for 33 years. We had 3 wonderful kids and raised them and they are doing well. That being said, I don't see the huge issue with gay marriage. Why do some feel so threatened by it? I see it as a concocted issue.

I have been married to my wonderful, beautiful wife for over 20 years. I have no idea why Conservatives think my marriage would be at risk if Bob and Bill can get legally married.

I've been married to my partner of 20 years for six years now. No floods, famine or cats and dogs living together.

Kudos to you. Being together that long is impressive.

I used to be pretty anti-gay marriage. And then I went to one. It was so.....unremarkable. I don't mean it was boring; it was an absolute blast. But it was just like any other wedding I'd been to. The couple was excited, scared and exhausted from all the planning. Parents were crying. Family members were having a ball and drinking too much. Everyone was happy for the new couple and excited for their future. When the two grooms were having a dance with their moms....I got a little choked up.

It was just....folks. And that's where I started to reevalute my position.

Its one of the reasons I've got my thumb on the pulse of anti-gay marriage bullshit. I've made most of the arguments. And frankly, made them better.

 

[Skylar]

That's how delusions work, they normally only effect the dilussional and their enablers.

Doesn't mean delusions are good though

What's delusional about love, man? They're a family. They've got kids whom they love. Parents, siblings, family reunions. Who cares how they get their nut. Frankly, how a person orgasms is one of the least interesting things about them.

Well, except that republican guy who broke into county vehicles, cracked open the steering column and attacked the car's starter to his nut sack. That was pretty fucking interesting. Disturbing. But interesting.