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Health Care Stories for America | BarackObama.com[/url]
Funny you coincidentally left out the people who get no healthcare at all because they can't afford it who suffer. Just because someone doesn't see a doctor at all because they can't afford it, instead of waiting to see one, doesn't mean the suffering magically goes away.
No system is perfect. Of course stuff that shouldn't happen will happen here too. But those of you who think universal, single payer, government run etc., whatever your preference is, is going to be better, you are dilluding yourself.
Look at the goal trying to be achieved here. The basic argument is that people who need healthcare would avail themselves of it, if not but for the cost. So Obama's solution in a nutshell is to lower the cost of healthcare. The rationale being that if barrier of cost is out of the way, there will be no issues in terms of access to healthcare.
That's where the the solution falls apart and the economics I referred to come in. When something costs less the quantity demanded of it goes up. So the only thing you have accomplished is in what way people are prioritized in receiving healthcare. Instead of it being based on how they can pay (which really isn't true for the bulk of American's in the first place), it will based on one's level of need/pain. Which may seem more fair, but the new system hasn't accomplished anything. it clearly isnt' a better system in terms of actually helping people considering more people will be kept in pain than before. All you've basically said is that people who had coverage before should have to suffer as much as those that don't.
That is why every other Western democracy in the world has universal healthcare, because it is cheaper and better.
Only right wing Americans are too dumb to get it.
You haven't heard any of the horror stories of people waiting for healthcare in this utopia you call universal healthcare. Cheap healthcare does not equal quality healthcare Chris and that is exactley what the bulk of countries that have tried this have found.
Ladies Logic: More universal health care horror stories
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/2008/05/27/universal-healthcare-horror-stories/
There's a couple to get you started. If you reduce cost, demand goes up, which means more people wait, which means more people suffer. Guess you didn't take basic principles of economics just like the president.
I just called HP customer service, about my printer, and spoke to a woman in Toronto. She'd never give up her Canadian Health Care. She also said that the US wouldn't get it because of the insurance companies.That is why every other Western democracy in the world has universal healthcare, because it is cheaper and better.
Only right wing Americans are too dumb to get it.
You haven't heard any of the horror stories of people waiting for healthcare in this utopia you call universal healthcare. Cheap healthcare does not equal quality healthcare Chris and that is exactley what the bulk of countries that have tried this have found.
Ladies Logic: More universal health care horror stories
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/2008/05/27/universal-healthcare-horror-stories/
There's a couple to get you started. If you reduce cost, demand goes up, which means more people wait, which means more people suffer. Guess you didn't take basic principles of economics just like the president.
Ed Schultz is going to Canada to see if what you guys say about their healthcare is true.
If you ask 100 Canadians if they would prefer to have our healthcare or their healthcare, what percentage would say ours?
I think 1 in 10 if you are lucky would give up what they have and pay double for ours like we do.
I just called HP customer service, about my printer, and spoke to a woman in Toronto. She'd never give up her Canadian Health Care. She also said that the US wouldn't get it because of the insurance companies.You haven't heard any of the horror stories of people waiting for healthcare in this utopia you call universal healthcare. Cheap healthcare does not equal quality healthcare Chris and that is exactley what the bulk of countries that have tried this have found.
Ladies Logic: More universal health care horror stories
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/2008/05/27/universal-healthcare-horror-stories/
There's a couple to get you started. If you reduce cost, demand goes up, which means more people wait, which means more people suffer. Guess you didn't take basic principles of economics just like the president.
Ed Schultz is going to Canada to see if what you guys say about their healthcare is true.
If you ask 100 Canadians if they would prefer to have our healthcare or their healthcare, what percentage would say ours?
I think 1 in 10 if you are lucky would give up what they have and pay double for ours like we do.
Health Care Stories for America | BarackObama.com[/url]
Funny you coincidentally left out the people who get no healthcare at all because they can't afford it who suffer. Just because someone doesn't see a doctor at all because they can't afford it, instead of waiting to see one, doesn't mean the suffering magically goes away.
No system is perfect. Of course stuff that shouldn't happen will happen here too. But those of you who think universal, single payer, government run etc., whatever your preference is, is going to be better, you are dilluding yourself.
Oh, of course. So why did you post examples of universal healthcare?
That's where the the solution falls apart and the economics I referred to come in. When something costs less the quantity demanded of it goes up. So the only thing you have accomplished is in what way people are prioritized in receiving healthcare. Instead of it being based on how they can pay (which really isn't true for the bulk of American's in the first place), it will based on one's level of need/pain. Which may seem more fair, but the new system hasn't accomplished anything. it clearly isnt' a better system in terms of actually helping people considering more people will be kept in pain than before. All you've basically said is that people who had coverage before should have to suffer as much as those that don't.
[And yes, making it so that healthcare is spread according to need, as opposed to an arbitrary line (money) is MUCH more efficient for overall health.
A belief that all Canadians should have reasonable access to quality health care regardless of their ability to pay; and
No system is perfect. Of course stuff that shouldn't happen will happen here too. But those of you who think universal, single payer, government run etc., whatever your preference is, is going to be better, you are dilluding yourself.
Oh, of course. So why did you post examples of universal healthcare?
Because whie our system may have flaws, those found in government health care/ single payer systems are worse.
I think that should be pretty clear. Again the goal is eliminate the cost barrier of access to healthcare. With that eliminated whether one can pay is no longer a prioritizing factor in when they get treated. The predominant factor would be the level of one's need (who would you like to determine that minor detail btw?).
That again coupled with the fact that when the cost of something goes down it will be used/consumed more means greater demand, which will mean more waiting, which means the worst will be treated first, while the pain of others not quite so bad progresses.
[And yes, making it so that healthcare is spread according to need, as opposed to an arbitrary line (money) is MUCH more efficient for overall health.
No it is not more EFFICIENT (learn your terms please).
According to the video, and everything I've read, the French have a far better system than we do.YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?
I'm curious is this the sort of system that all the proponents of government sponsored healthcare want? If so then tell me, and don't say we get rich people to pay for it, because you will need more than rich people top pay for it. How given the fact that our nation is deeply in debt, and has record unemployment do you propose to pay for this? To raise taxes on an already stressed economy and spend even more money we don't have? While the goal is noble perhaps cost reforms can be accomplished by solving the underlying issues and not look to Govt. to solve them for us.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxdNMqbwjWQ&NR=1]YouTube - What is the Best Healthcare Option?[/ame]According to the video, and everything I've read, the French have a far better system than we do.YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?
I'm curious is this the sort of system that all the proponents of government sponsored healthcare want? If so then tell me, and don't say we get rich people to pay for it, because you will need more than rich people top pay for it. How given the fact that our nation is deeply in debt, and has record unemployment do you propose to pay for this? To raise taxes on an already stressed economy and spend even more money we don't have? While the goal is noble perhaps cost reforms can be accomplished by solving the underlying issues and not look to Govt. to solve them for us.
The French spend just over half of what the US does per patient.
According to the video, and everything I've read, the French have a far better system than we do.YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?
I'm curious is this the sort of system that all the proponents of government sponsored healthcare want? If so then tell me, and don't say we get rich people to pay for it, because you will need more than rich people top pay for it. How given the fact that our nation is deeply in debt, and has record unemployment do you propose to pay for this? To raise taxes on an already stressed economy and spend even more money we don't have? While the goal is noble perhaps cost reforms can be accomplished by solving the underlying issues and not look to Govt. to solve them for us.
The French spend just over half of what the US does per patient.
I just called HP customer service, about my printer, and spoke to a woman in Toronto. She'd never give up her Canadian Health Care. She also said that the US wouldn't get it because of the insurance companies.You haven't heard any of the horror stories of people waiting for healthcare in this utopia you call universal healthcare. Cheap healthcare does not equal quality healthcare Chris and that is exactley what the bulk of countries that have tried this have found.
Ladies Logic: More universal health care horror stories
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/2008/05/27/universal-healthcare-horror-stories/
There's a couple to get you started. If you reduce cost, demand goes up, which means more people wait, which means more people suffer. Guess you didn't take basic principles of economics just like the president.
Ed Schultz is going to Canada to see if what you guys say about their healthcare is true.
If you ask 100 Canadians if they would prefer to have our healthcare or their healthcare, what percentage would say ours?
I think 1 in 10 if you are lucky would give up what they have and pay double for ours like we do.
According to the video, and everything I've read, the French have a far better system than we do.YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?
I'm curious is this the sort of system that all the proponents of government sponsored healthcare want? If so then tell me, and don't say we get rich people to pay for it, because you will need more than rich people top pay for it. How given the fact that our nation is deeply in debt, and has record unemployment do you propose to pay for this? To raise taxes on an already stressed economy and spend even more money we don't have? While the goal is noble perhaps cost reforms can be accomplished by solving the underlying issues and not look to Govt. to solve them for us.
The French spend just over half of what the US does per patient.
Understood that the per patient costs, are lower, but that fails to answer the underlying question here though and thats how do we as a nation pay for this? The other issue is Frnace does not have to to deal with as large an illegal Immigration issue as we do. I submit that even if we reform healthcare and lets say we do adopt a single payer system or for that matter a "govt plan" that does not address the issue of over 80 billion dollars of year spent in Illegal Immigration healthcare and rising. The other issue that it does not address is the underlying causes of drug costs, or tort reform. If you adopt such a system and do not attempt to fix all the causes all we are doing is spending a LOT of money for cover a few people and even then according to the CBO may not cover everyone. I did like the idea though that when someone calls in a Doctor answered the phone, however I don't think as a practical matter some of the French Ideas would translate here because of the population and size differences we have. I also likes the idea of a having the mobile ER that would seem to make a lot of sense especially in an Unrban setting as a way to keep costs down.
Increase taxes, decrease care. Lose/lose. WTF?
France has a large immigrant population.According to the video, and everything I've read, the French have a far better system than we do.YouTube - France: 'Best' Health Care?
I'm curious is this the sort of system that all the proponents of government sponsored healthcare want? If so then tell me, and don't say we get rich people to pay for it, because you will need more than rich people top pay for it. How given the fact that our nation is deeply in debt, and has record unemployment do you propose to pay for this? To raise taxes on an already stressed economy and spend even more money we don't have? While the goal is noble perhaps cost reforms can be accomplished by solving the underlying issues and not look to Govt. to solve them for us.
The French spend just over half of what the US does per patient.
Understood that the per patient costs, are lower, but that fails to answer the underlying question here though and thats how do we as a nation pay for this? The other issue is Frnace does not have to to deal with as large an illegal Immigration issue as we do. I submit that even if we reform healthcare and lets say we do adopt a single payer system or for that matter a "govt plan" that does not address the issue of over 80 billion dollars of year spent in Illegal Immigration healthcare and rising. The other issue that it does not address is the underlying causes of drug costs, or tort reform. If you adopt such a system and do not attempt to fix all the causes all we are doing is spending a LOT of money for cover a few people and even then according to the CBO may not cover everyone. I did like the idea though that when someone calls in a Doctor answered the phone, however I don't think as a practical matter some of the French Ideas would translate here because of the population and size differences we have. I also likes the idea of a having the mobile ER that would seem to make a lot of sense especially in an Unrban setting as a way to keep costs down.
Oh, I see. So when you post anecdotal evidence of their flaws, its representative of wider problems, but when I post anecdotal evidence of American flaws, its "every system has problems"?
Nice cognitive dissonance there.
And? Why in the hell would a random, arbitrary factor create more efficiencies than something actually related to health? As for who would determine that detail, how about hospitals, nurses, and doctors as opposed to insurance companies, eh?
Well, of course instead we should treat those who are in the best condition first. Thats a marvelous alternative
[And yes, making it so that healthcare is spread according to need, as opposed to an arbitrary line (money) is MUCH more efficient for overall health.
Yes it is more EFFICIENT. I know exactly what it means. Apparently you don't, so here you go.
ef⋅fi⋅cient  /ɪˈfɪʃənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-fish-uhnt] Show IPA
Use efficient in a Sentence
–adjective 1. performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort
efficient definition | Dictionary.com
Making a plan that addresses problems early instead of waiting until they have to go to the hospital (since thats pretty much the only way an illegal immigrant can get healthcare) will reduce costs by itself.
Suuuuuuuure they do.
Of course, the questions and methodology of the purported poll aren't mentioned.
That is why every other Western democracy in the world has universal healthcare, because it is cheaper and better.
Only right wing Americans are too dumb to get it.
Ed Schultz is going to Canada to see if what you guys say about their healthcare is true.
If you ask 100 Canadians if they would prefer to have our healthcare or their healthcare, what percentage would say ours?
I think 1 in 10 if you are lucky would give up what they have and pay double for ours like we do.
