58% Want English-Only Ballots

[oldsalt]

Easy tigarbob, speaking English and reading English are two different skills. If I were to immigrate to Spain (I wish) I'm sure I'd pick up enough Spanish to get along very well, but if it came to writing it I'd be lost. And I think that as a person ages it becomes even more difficult.

And I'm sure you've seen pictures of recent immigrants getting sworn in, if you think back there is always a couple of cute little old ladies in the group. It is so those little old ladies can vote too. Among others of course.

Sure, invoke the LOL's argument! C'mon, Susan! I know you! So, how many different languages do we need to print these things in?

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to stick with my LOL argument.

I honestly don't care how many languages they have to print. There are so many other things to be upset about and this is so minor, I'm sticking with my original argument.

Stick to it, I knew you would! Welcome from the IS bd. Good to see you!

 

[tigerbob]

Easy tigarbob, speaking English and reading English are two different skills. If I were to immigrate to Spain (I wish) I'm sure I'd pick up enough Spanish to get along very well, but if it came to writing it I'd be lost. And I think that as a person ages it becomes even more difficult.

And I'm sure you've seen pictures of recent immigrants getting sworn in, if you think back there is always a couple of cute little old ladies in the group. It is so those little old ladies can vote too. Among others of course.

Sure, invoke the LOL's argument! C'mon, Susan! I know you! So, how many different languages do we need to print these things in?

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to stick with my LOL argument.

I honestly don't care how many languages they have to print. There are so many other things to be upset about and this is so minor, I'm sticking with my original argument.

But surely there is some tipping point at which it becomes overwhelmingly complex and lengthy, and also prohibitively expensive.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In order to vote you have to be a citizen. To become a citizen you have to know some English. Why do they print ballots in other languages?

Because to do otherwise would be un-Constitutional:

Arizona voters passed an English-only law as an Amendment to the Arizona Constitution adopted through a petition drive that culminated in a general election in November 1988. The Amendment provides that English was the official language of the State of Arizona, and that the State and its political subdivisions must "act" only in English. In April 1998, the Arizona Supreme Court held that the amendment violated the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in that it adversely impacted the constitutional rights of non-English speaking persons regarding access to their government, and that it limited political speech of elected officials and public employees. The court also held that the amendment violates the EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE of the FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT to the United States Constitution in that it unduly burdens core First Amendment rights of a specific class without materially advancing a legitimate STATE INTEREST. Plaintiffs in the case were four elected officials, five state employees, and one public school teacher. All plaintiffs are bilingual and regularly communicated in both Spanish and English as private citizens and during the performance of government business. The court noted that although 21 states and 40 municipalities have official English statutes, most of those provisions are substantially less encompassing and less proscriptive than Arizona's Amendment. In mid January 1998, the U.S. Supreme Court denied review of the case, then known as Ruiz v. Hull, 191 Ariz. 441, 957 P.2d 984 (1998).

English-Only Laws - Further Readings - Language, Official, Government, Court, United, and Amendment

A given jurisdiction may establish English as its ‘official language’ but must still accommodate non-English speakers.

And as we all know Puerto Ricans are American citizens, with equal voting rights once they reside in the US proper. Many Puerto Ricans do not speak English. You may not compel an American citizen to learn English as a condition of exercising his Constitutional right to vote.

Then why are street signs only in english? The name on the ballot will appear the same, no matter the language.

Street signs are only in English? So how come my grandmother used to live on Calle Del Ensayador? That look like English to YOU?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Because liberals despise everything US and pander to and embrace all things foreign..

In the progressive mind being a US citizen and speaking English should be an embarrassment, because we're the "big bad ignorant wolf" in the world allegedly.

Its the liberals goal to get as many foreigners here as possible, preferably ethnic foreigners because they absolutely despise the notion we're majority Caucasian and speak English...

You have to destroy culture before you can create the communist state. Of course the non-English speakers will vote for the communists because its the communists that pander to them, and support them with taxpayer dollars...

So it has to do with disgust and communism...

Have to make it party political?

I do believe,
That Mr. Nick,
Is, well, a . . . . .

Well, not many can rationalize with their feelings...

I've seen "progressives" go off on mind bending emotional tangents and most of the time their anger is directed at "the racist republican party of old white men that hate poor people."

When liberals blow their gasket they make their agenda known....

So I'm not crazy, liberals just rationalize their hatred as logical or justified. I just see it for what it is...

The typical liberal deep down inside is a masochist, phrases like "white guilt" exist for a reason...

Progressives are the most psychologically fucked up people on the planet...

 

[George Costanza]

You may not compel an American citizen to learn English as a condition of exercising his Constitutional right to vote.

True - but only citizens can vote, and you must be able to "speak English" to become a U.S. citizen. However, the degree of literacy in English is minimal - probably not enough to ensure intelligent voting in the event someone because a citizen with merely the minimal ability required.

The "quote" that you're referencing actually wasn't my comment. And I appreciate that the standard may be minimal. It just surprises me that a grown adult who has lived here for 3 years would have been unable to pick up conversational English. Surprises and saddens.

I know what you mean. I deal with Spanish-speaking people every day - they are my clients. Many of them have been here for decades. Yet they still don't speak English. I know that if I was dropped off in Mexico City and was told I would be there for a long time, I would welcome the opportunity to learn Spanish as soon as possible. I took three years of it in high school and got virtually nothing out of it. You have to live a language to learn it - it is very difficult to learn it abstractly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Requirements to become a US Citizen are as follows, I believe

1. Are at least 18 years old and a lawful permanent resident ("green card" holder);
2. Have resided continuously in the United States, having been lawfully admitted for permanent residence, for five years immediately preceding the date you filed your application for naturalization, or
3. Have, after having been removed from conditional permanent resident status, based upon your marriage to a U.S. citizen, having resided in the United States for one year after the date the condition was removed;
4. Have resided continuously in the United States at all times after your application to the time and date of your admission for citizenship;
5. Have, during all periods of time referred to above, been and still are a person of good moral character;
6. Have no outstanding deportation or removal order and no pending deportation or removal proceeding;
7. Have the ability to read, write, speak, and understand simple words and phrases in English;
8. Have knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of U.S. history and government;
9. Are attached to, and can support, the principles of the U.S. Constitution and can swear allegiance to the United States.

Condition 2 requires that you have lived in the US for 5 years, and condition 3 that you have lived here for 3 years (2 years conditional residence, plus 1 additional year). So, in order to become a US citizen, you must have lived here for a minimum of 3 years.

How can you not learn enough English to fill out a ballot sheet in 3 years?

Pretty easily. New immigrants tend to live in areas full of other immigrants from the same culture. They associate with their own families and other people from that culture. They interact with English speakers when they have to, but it hardly requires you to be a fluent enough English READER to understand the sometimes confusing initiative descriptions.

Fluent = recognizing a name????

Oh, so your state's ballots only have names? They don't have initiatives? Well, in that case, what the fuck are you worried about? Names aren't "translated", so YOUR state clearly isn't printing Spanish ballots. Problem solved.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

In order to vote you have to be a citizen. To become a citizen you have to know some English. Why do they print ballots in other languages?

58% Want English-Only Ballots - Rasmussen Reports™

In order to be a citizen, you do have to know "some" English. I think they print ballots in other languages in order to make it possible for those who knew enough English to become a citizen to vote, but who might not be able to understand the writing on the ballots. As you know, ballots contain more than just names. They also contain detailed arguments pro and con on the people running and the issues before the electorate.

Don't forget, this is America. You know that lady who stands in the harbor in New York, right?

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus, 1883

They know some english, but don't understand the writing Secondly, are you suggesting that they are using the ballot to inform themselves of candidate's positions, and issues? They have no prior knowledge? How did they know where to go to vote? Are street signs in hebrew?

Kiryas Joel, Westchester County, NY.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You may not compel an American citizen to learn English as a condition of exercising his Constitutional right to vote.

True - but only citizens can vote, and you must be able to "speak English" to become a U.S. citizen. However, the degree of literacy in English is minimal - probably not enough to ensure intelligent voting in the event someone because a citizen with merely the minimal ability required.

The "quote" that you're referencing actually wasn't my comment. And I appreciate that the standard may be minimal. It just surprises me that a grown adult who has lived here for 3 years would have been unable to pick up conversational English. Surprises and saddens.

They DO pick up conversational English. Conversational English isn't written English. You do realize that the ballots aren't on audiobook, right?

 

[Tank]

Is it not "racist" to tell other cultures to learn you're language?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Requirements to become a US Citizen are as follows, I believe

1. Are at least 18 years old and a lawful permanent resident ("green card" holder);
2. Have resided continuously in the United States, having been lawfully admitted for permanent residence, for five years immediately preceding the date you filed your application for naturalization, or
3. Have, after having been removed from conditional permanent resident status, based upon your marriage to a U.S. citizen, having resided in the United States for one year after the date the condition was removed;
4. Have resided continuously in the United States at all times after your application to the time and date of your admission for citizenship;
5. Have, during all periods of time referred to above, been and still are a person of good moral character;
6. Have no outstanding deportation or removal order and no pending deportation or removal proceeding;
7. Have the ability to read, write, speak, and understand simple words and phrases in English;
8. Have knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of U.S. history and government;
9. Are attached to, and can support, the principles of the U.S. Constitution and can swear allegiance to the United States.

Condition 2 requires that you have lived in the US for 5 years, and condition 3 that you have lived here for 3 years (2 years conditional residence, plus 1 additional year). So, in order to become a US citizen, you must have lived here for a minimum of 3 years.

How can you not learn enough English to fill out a ballot sheet in 3 years?

Easy tigarbob, speaking English and reading English are two different skills. If I were to immigrate to Spain (I wish) I'm sure I'd pick up enough Spanish to get along very well, but if it came to writing it I'd be lost. And I think that as a person ages it becomes even more difficult.

And I'm sure you've seen pictures of recent immigrants getting sworn in, if you think back there is always a couple of cute little old ladies in the group. It is so those little old ladies can vote too. Among others of course.

It's an interesting distinction, but I don't buy it.

It takes a little effort, sure, but it's not like this is a mountain that people are being asked to overcome. And actually, I'd contend that reading it is easier than speaking it, because one has time to stop, think, consider what is being said. One can re-read, and one doesn't have to deal with the vagaries of accents.

You can contend it, but you'd be wrong.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Not only that, but voting privileges should be severely curtailed through civics and literacy tests. A government is a reflection of the people, this government reflects a piss poor population because universal democracy caters to the lowest common denominator. Voting should be restricted to the intelligent and informed, and the government should reflect the best of the society.

This is precious.

 

[George Costanza]

Have to make it party political?

I do believe,
That Mr. Nick,
Is, well, a . . . . .

Well, not many can rationalize with their feelings...

I've seen "progressives" go off on mind bending emotional tangents and most of the time their anger is directed at "the racist republican party of old white men that hate poor people."

When liberals blow their gasket they make their agenda known....

So I'm not crazy, liberals just rationalize their hatred as logical or justified. I just see it for what it is...

The typical liberal deep down inside is a masochist, phrases like "white guilt" exist for a reason...

Progressives are the most psychologically fucked up people on the planet...

Sadly, there is some truth in what you say. I am a liberal. I would like to think I am not "fucked up", but I will concede that there are some in my camp who are. In the final analysis, I think the difference between conservatives and liberals is the difference between extreme practicality (conservative) and extreme idealism (liberals).

I will admit, that us libs don't seem to do public relations very well. We have people with some good ideas, but they quite often don't present well, if you know what I mean. You can have the best idea in the world, but if you have some wild-eyed, long-haird weirdo espousing it, you aren't going to get very far.

We need to learn how to campaign for public office and to get some decent looking spokespeople.

And you are so right, that it is very difficult for people to rationalize with their feelings.

 

[oldsalt]

Because to do otherwise would be un-Constitutional:



A given jurisdiction may establish English as its ‘official language’ but must still accommodate non-English speakers.

And as we all know Puerto Ricans are American citizens, with equal voting rights once they reside in the US proper. Many Puerto Ricans do not speak English. You may not compel an American citizen to learn English as a condition of exercising his Constitutional right to vote.

Then why are street signs only in english? The name on the ballot will appear the same, no matter the language.

Street signs are only in English? So how come my grandmother used to live on Calle Del Ensayador? That look like English to YOU?

Sure does! Ever read Arabic? Of course it's english. Just like if STEVE SMITH was running, his name would appear that way on the ballot in any language. Try again.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Requirements to become a US Citizen are as follows, I believe

1. Are at least 18 years old and a lawful permanent resident ("green card" holder);
2. Have resided continuously in the United States, having been lawfully admitted for permanent residence, for five years immediately preceding the date you filed your application for naturalization, or
3. Have, after having been removed from conditional permanent resident status, based upon your marriage to a U.S. citizen, having resided in the United States for one year after the date the condition was removed;
4. Have resided continuously in the United States at all times after your application to the time and date of your admission for citizenship;
5. Have, during all periods of time referred to above, been and still are a person of good moral character;
6. Have no outstanding deportation or removal order and no pending deportation or removal proceeding;
7. Have the ability to read, write, speak, and understand simple words and phrases in English;
8. Have knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of U.S. history and government;
9. Are attached to, and can support, the principles of the U.S. Constitution and can swear allegiance to the United States.

Condition 2 requires that you have lived in the US for 5 years, and condition 3 that you have lived here for 3 years (2 years conditional residence, plus 1 additional year). So, in order to become a US citizen, you must have lived here for a minimum of 3 years.

How can you not learn enough English to fill out a ballot sheet in 3 years?

Pretty easily. New immigrants tend to live in areas full of other immigrants from the same culture. They associate with their own families and other people from that culture. They interact with English speakers when they have to, but it hardly requires you to be a fluent enough English READER to understand the sometimes confusing initiative descriptions.

I appreciate that, but while it may be a reason it's hardly an excuse.

Who said it was? You asked a question, and I answered. If you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked. If you wanted the answer only so you could be confrontational with the answerer, ditto.

 

[oldsalt]

In order to be a citizen, you do have to know "some" English. I think they print ballots in other languages in order to make it possible for those who knew enough English to become a citizen to vote, but who might not be able to understand the writing on the ballots. As you know, ballots contain more than just names. They also contain detailed arguments pro and con on the people running and the issues before the electorate.

Don't forget, this is America. You know that lady who stands in the harbor in New York, right?

They know some english, but don't understand the writing Secondly, are you suggesting that they are using the ballot to inform themselves of candidate's positions, and issues? They have no prior knowledge? How did they know where to go to vote? Are street signs in hebrew?

Kiryas Joel, Westchester County, NY.

LOL, surrrre. So why aren't they in lee co FL?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Requirements to become a US Citizen are as follows, I believe

1. Are at least 18 years old and a lawful permanent resident ("green card" holder);
2. Have resided continuously in the United States, having been lawfully admitted for permanent residence, for five years immediately preceding the date you filed your application for naturalization, or
3. Have, after having been removed from conditional permanent resident status, based upon your marriage to a U.S. citizen, having resided in the United States for one year after the date the condition was removed;
4. Have resided continuously in the United States at all times after your application to the time and date of your admission for citizenship;
5. Have, during all periods of time referred to above, been and still are a person of good moral character;
6. Have no outstanding deportation or removal order and no pending deportation or removal proceeding;
7. Have the ability to read, write, speak, and understand simple words and phrases in English;
8. Have knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of U.S. history and government;
9. Are attached to, and can support, the principles of the U.S. Constitution and can swear allegiance to the United States.

Condition 2 requires that you have lived in the US for 5 years, and condition 3 that you have lived here for 3 years (2 years conditional residence, plus 1 additional year). So, in order to become a US citizen, you must have lived here for a minimum of 3 years.

How can you not learn enough English to fill out a ballot sheet in 3 years?

Easy tigarbob, speaking English and reading English are two different skills. If I were to immigrate to Spain (I wish) I'm sure I'd pick up enough Spanish to get along very well, but if it came to writing it I'd be lost. And I think that as a person ages it becomes even more difficult.

And I'm sure you've seen pictures of recent immigrants getting sworn in, if you think back there is always a couple of cute little old ladies in the group. It is so those little old ladies can vote too. Among others of course.

Yet, you'd try to assimilate to their culture and language..

Illegals or even foreign nationals don't even do that here. They just come here and takeover neighborhoods and turn them into their own "country."

Hell, I just got done talking to one of my parents neighbors the other day and he said that his neighbor (who is an Asian immigrant) dropped her pants in the yard and squatted.... What the fuck is that???

Even by me the Mexicans (most of whom I presume are illegal) cant even speak English, hell, the guy right next door cant even speak a lick of English. I went over there when he moved in to introduce myself and he just nodded and got his daughter (or maybe granddaughter?? to translate)... Then the other day when I was chilling out front having a beer or a few a van pulls up and a dude gets out and my neighbor and the guy start hugging like they've been separated for years - I'm going to assume its his illegal alien family member who made it all the way....

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Then why are street signs only in english? The name on the ballot will appear the same, no matter the language.

Street signs are only in English? So how come my grandmother used to live on Calle Del Ensayador? That look like English to YOU?

Sure does! Ever read Arabic? Of course it's english. Just like if STEVE SMITH was running, his name would appear that way on the ballot in any language. Try again.

No, it's not "English". Many languages use the latin alphabet - including English, Spanish, German, and Portuguese.

And a street named "Calle Del Ensayador" is certainly not "English".

 

[theDoctorisIn]

They know some english, but don't understand the writing Secondly, are you suggesting that they are using the ballot to inform themselves of candidate's positions, and issues? They have no prior knowledge? How did they know where to go to vote? Are street signs in hebrew?

Kiryas Joel, Westchester County, NY.

LOL, surrrre. So why aren't they in lee co FL?

Probably because the town of Kiryas Joel is nearly 100% Orthodox Jewish, and Lee County, FL is not.

 

[George Costanza]

They know some english, but don't understand the writing Secondly, are you suggesting that they are using the ballot to inform themselves of candidate's positions, and issues? They have no prior knowledge? How did they know where to go to vote? Are street signs in hebrew?

Kiryas Joel, Westchester County, NY.

LOL, surrrre. So why aren't they in lee co FL?

Oldsalt, you are aware that ballots always contain statements of the issues with regard to propositions and campaign/biographical statements on all of the candidates, right? It isn't just a matter of being able to read a name of a candidate in order to understand a ballot.

I know, I know . . . why don't they prep up for the voting so they don't have to read the ballots and can just come in and vote. Know what? Many times (I am ashamed to admit) I base my vote on what I read in the ballot statements as I am standing in the voting booth. Not always of course, but fairly often.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Then why are street signs only in english? The name on the ballot will appear the same, no matter the language.

Street signs are only in English? So how come my grandmother used to live on Calle Del Ensayador? That look like English to YOU?

Sure does! Ever read Arabic? Of course it's english. Just like if STEVE SMITH was running, his name would appear that way on the ballot in any language. Try again.

So it's not another language unless its alphabet looks completely different from the one English uses? CHRIST, you're Anglo-centric. Get a grip.

And yeah, that's kinda my point, dipwad. "Steve Smith" is going to look the same no matter what, which means that since your state OBVIOUSLY only has names on the ballot - because that's what YOU said, right? - YOU don't need to worry about your state printing Spanish ballots. There's nothing there to translate INTO Spanish . . . right?