56% of Americans favor healthcare reform this year

[Chris]

A new USA Today/Gallup poll just out of the field has some interesting data about Americans' opinions on health care reform, as the Congressional debate continues:

The poll of 3,026 adults, surveyed Friday through Sunday, has a margin of error of +/—2 percentage points. Some questions, asked of half the sample, have an error margin of +/—3 points.

By 56%-33%, those surveyed endorse the idea of enacting major health care changes this year. Just one in four say it's not important to them.

USA Today/Gallup Poll: Americans want health care reform | Fired Up! Missouri

You made this thread like 6 weeks ago and said it was 72% http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ricans-support-government-run-healthcare.html

you are a funny guy.

You do realize many of us want the system reformed but very few of us support the House Resolution 3200 that the President is pushing right now, dont you?

not that you will actually answer a legitimate challenge to your ideology

Sorry to prove you wrong again....do you ever research anything?

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

 

[Chris]

99% of Americans want REFORM. But 99% do not want a NATIONAL TAKEOVER OF OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

None of us are in love with private health insurance providers, we think they are ruthless, however, the government is even more ruthless than they are. It is a choice between two evils.

The health care system can be reformed, with cost control measures such as tort reform, opening up states to out of state competition, health insurance savings plans, quality of care not quantity, electronic records, etc. This can all be done with limited government involvement, just get rid of some old legislation and pass some new ones. Health care fixed 101.

Why not reform it with a mixture of public and private plans? The argument that is presented by reform's most vocal critics is that the only choices are the status quo or total government takeover which is not even a serious option.

I agree that tort reform needs to be part of the solution as well as much of what you suggest but I don't think it's enough by itself and it won't happen without limited government involvement because that is exactly what we have right now - limited government involvement and no incentive for the major players to change the status quo as there is too much money involved.

Very nice post.

The French have a system very much like what you are describing, and I think it is the best. Everyone can use the public option if they want too or chose private insurance. This is also what Obama is proposing.

The French limit liability, medical schools are free, so doctors don't start out with a large debt, and doctors are well paid but don't make the ridiculous money they make here. As a result the French don't have long waits for access, and they only pay about HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare, and they cover everyone.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I favor reform...but I'm not sure I favor the current reform proposals

AT 1100 pages, none of which I have read, it would be hard for me to favor something I as yet do not understand.

What I think I know is this: if we do nothing it will go from very bad to very very very bad.

But that doesn't mean that we cannot reform our way into something even worse, too.

I do not understand how the propopsed Obama system will work.

We will have the choice of a government HC insurance option, or keep our own private HC insurance?

Now how on earth is that going to work to solve the problem?

I can't see any mechnanism there that will do anything about keeping prices down.

If anyone understands this proposed system well enough to really explain it to me, I'd appreciate their thoughts on the subject.

Or, if anyone knows of a website that explains it in some detail that would be good, too.

ask Chris and Old Rocks.....they are so much in favor of it that im sure they have all your answers...

 

[Harry Dresden]

No one is advocating "free healthcare." Every system has some sort of co-pay.

Every other industrialized country in the world has a national healthcare system except the United States. Why? Because taking care of the sick is the right thing to do.

And people from every other industrialized country in the world with government health care come to the United states for care.

why?

Oh yeah...whenever I go into a hospital in America is totally overrun by foreignor seeking our health care.

Are you fucking nuts?

come out here and check out UCI Medical Center.....you want foreigners.... you got em......

 

[Harry Dresden]

To put it another way using an example of another failing government service that is costing us not the trillions that health care will but billions nonetheless, the Postal Service, the same government "competitive" model logic would work like this:

The government in its quest to provide equal access to package delivery services will mandate what Fed Ex and UPS can charge to ship something.

The price of shipping will be set at X dollars no matter if the package weighs one ounce or 100 pounds and no matter if the package is being shipped across town in 5 days or over night to Antarctica.

The Post Office will then guarantee that they can do all that and more for the same X dollars even though the math doesn't add up. the government will simply levy a tax on ALL people to pay for it. Sooner rather than later private package delivery will cease to exist and the only "option" will be the government run service.

That is the government insurance "option" in a nut shell

Skull...as someone who actually works for the PO...you dont know what you are talking about dude......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Speaker Nancy Pelosi | Current Legislation[/url]


So the government wants to limit what insurance companies charge and raise what insurance companies have to pay out in benefits to an infinite amount.

They will do this while saying the government plan with its unlimited financial resources (that's our money) will provide "competition"

To put it another way using an example of another failing government service that is costing us not the trillions that health care will but billions nonetheless, the Postal Service, the same government "competitive" model logic would work like this:

The government in its quest to provide equal access to package delivery services will mandate what Fed Ex and UPS can charge to ship something.

The price of shipping will be set at X dollars no matter if the package weighs one ounce or 100 pounds and no matter if the package is being shipped across town in 5 days or over night to Antarctica.

The Post Office will then guarantee that they can do all that and more for the same X dollars even though the math doesn't add up. the government will simply levy a tax on ALL people to pay for it. Sooner rather than later private package delivery will cease to exist and the only "option" will be the government run service.

That is the government insurance "option" in a nut shell

You post office analogy is complete BS. The USPS receives no tax dollars and is completely self-supporting.

and is running a 7 billion dollar deficit in 2009

now where do you think the post office will get that 7 billion?

And where do you think the postal service got the money to close the 2008 deficit of over 2 billion and the 2007 deficit of over 5 billion

can you say the federal government?

we havent got NO bailout money from the very guys who own and operate us....none ...nada...they will do as they have since 1982....bite the bullet and do whatever it takes to cut costs...they have shut PO;s...early outs....cut some non-essential services and as of Sept. there should not be any more stamp machines....certain stores will get the stamp trade....we made an arrangement with Fed-x....they fly all the first class mail on their planes...which is better than the airlines,less restrictions,and in turn they get to put Fed-X boxes in front of PO's.....and they are doing things internally that you dont see and i cant tell you about.....classified.....but that being said....if the PO had some REAL managers that know how to run a business they would not be in the shape they are in....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why do you think the USPS has been laying off? And targeting offices for closure? And asking Congress for a 5-day work week?

Show me one piece of "bailout" legislation for the post office that's been signed into law since 2006. Just one. I dare you.

the USPS...has NEVER laid off anyone in the history of the service.....but that may change....we will see what transpires.....

 

[Chris]

The people at the post office work very hard and do a good job.

But everyone likes to complain about them because we have to stand in line for 5 minutes.

 

[Harry Dresden]

ooooh you dare me

the post office has been dependent on loans from the FFB

Postal Service Must Enter 21st Century - washingtonpost.com

THE POST office may be the next too-big thing. If it continues on its present course, the U.S. Postal Service stands to post $6 billion to $12 billion in losses by the end of the fiscal year. By the end of the second quarter of fiscal 2009, it had racked up an operating loss of more than $2 billion, almost equal to its total losses last year. So far, the Postal Service has depended on loans from the Federal Financing Bank, a federal borrowing agency, to help make up the difference, but it is fast approaching its $15 billion credit limit. Something has to give.

And who fund this federal borrowing agency?

the tax payers.

Federal Financing Bank

The Federal Financing Bank (FFB) is a government corporation, created by Congress in 1973 under the general supervision of the Secretary of the Treasury. The FFB was established to centralize and reduce the cost of federal borrowing, as well as federally-assisted borrowing from the public. The FFB was also established to deal with federal budget management issues which occurred when off-budget financing flooded the government securities market with offers of a variety of government-backed securities that were competing with Treasury securities. Today the FFB has statutory authority to purchase any obligation issued, sold, or guaranteed by a federal agency to ensure that fully guaranteed obligations are financed efficiently.

So I dare you to tell me that the post office operates with absolutely no tax payer expense when we fund the very congressional program that the post office has been using to fund its shortfalls

you can look at it like that Skull.....but since the PO is owned by the Govt hence the Tax Payer,where would they get money to begin with?...BUT since 1982 the PO has totally paid its own way with its own revenue.....as a matter of fact Congress sees the PO as its cash cow,with revenues of up to 80-100 billion in the better days.....just a few years ago Congress had them paying 3 billion a year into an account that that was supposed to be for pre paying retirement accounts....but congress was using it for other things....so now the PO wants that money back, i believe it is now about 13 billion.....what im saying Skull is this....any federal dollars the PO gets back...they probably put it in there in the first place....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The people at the post office work very hard and do a good job.

But everyone likes to complain about them because we have to stand in line for 5 minutes.

well the people who ACTUALLY move the mail do.....some do NOTHING but impede those who do and make a good buck while doing so....if the PO wanted to trim jobs and save who knows how much....get rid of many of the middle managers....they do NOTHING....

 

[Chris]

The people at the post office work very hard and do a good job.

But everyone likes to complain about them because we have to stand in line for 5 minutes.

well the people who ACTUALLY move the mail do.....some do NOTHING but impede those who do and make a good buck while doing so....if the PO wanted to trim jobs and save who knows how much....get rid of many of the middle managers....they do NOTHING....

That's true in every business!

 

[Coyote]

One simple question to supporters of more intervention into our personal health care? Do you like the way the government runs other health plans? Medicare? Have you ever looked to see how the costs have gone crazy since that program's inception?

Two examples of government managed healthcare: Medicare and the VA system both have excellant ratings in terms of quality of care and customer satisfaction.

Are their costs worse then the costs now associated with the private plans?

 

[oreo]

One simple question to supporters of more intervention into our personal health care? Do you like the way the government runs other health plans? Medicare? Have you ever looked to see how the costs have gone crazy since that program's inception?

Two examples of government managed healthcare: Medicare and the VA system both have excellant ratings in terms of quality of care and customer satisfaction.

Are their costs worse then the costs now associated with the private plans?

No--talking up the VA won't help these congressmen/women & senators. It's horrible. My husband waits 8 months to get in for an appointment.

A veternan wanting to obtain health benefits from the VA will typically wait more than one year before they get into their first appointment.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

A new USA Today/Gallup poll just out of the field has some interesting data about Americans' opinions on health care reform, as the Congressional debate continues:

The poll of 3,026 adults, surveyed Friday through Sunday, has a margin of error of +/—2 percentage points. Some questions, asked of half the sample, have an error margin of +/—3 points.

By 56%-33%, those surveyed endorse the idea of enacting major health care changes this year. Just one in four say it's not important to them.

USA Today/Gallup Poll: Americans want health care reform | Fired Up! Missouri

You made this thread like 6 weeks ago and said it was 72% http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ricans-support-government-run-healthcare.html

you are a funny guy.

You do realize many of us want the system reformed but very few of us support the House Resolution 3200 that the President is pushing right now, dont you?

not that you will actually answer a legitimate challenge to your ideology

Sorry to prove you wrong again....do you ever research anything?

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

Well obama considered his just over 50% of the vote for president being an overwhelming victory and just over 50% of people oppose the current plan.

Oh yeah....reasearch right...here you go jackanapes 53% Now Oppose Congressional Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports™

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

One simple question to supporters of more intervention into our personal health care? Do you like the way the government runs other health plans? Medicare? Have you ever looked to see how the costs have gone crazy since that program's inception?

Medicare overshot its projected cost by a multiple of over 10. If that happens with this proposal it will need over 10trillion in funding.

Look to the Treaties with Native Americans where the govt promised to provide health care then look at the quality of care they actually recieve.

Look to social security.

Look to the underfunding of cash for clunkers


Shall i continue or is that enough for the intellectually honest in here?

What confounds me no end is why anyone would think that a for-profit based system is somehow better for them.

For profit means innovation to make even more profit. US govt run anything means utter failure when it comes to running anything efficiently, effectively, and under budget.

We haven't done jack crap right since WW2. is your head in the sand

SS is broke
Medicare/cade are both broke (and bush's part d pushed it even further underwater)
Cash for clunkers is out of money
While Obama tells us the recession is over and stimulus works we still lost another 300,000+jobs last year
VA hospitals are subpar but have gotten better in the last 5 years.
The congress can't even comprehend the bill they are signing, let alone even read it
No one has shown a viable plan to fund HR 3200
You dont need 1000+ pages to fix health care, you need some simple and basic reforms


Dont be a ideological loon....be a centrist centrismsvoice.

 

[oreo]

Well yeah--we want health care reform--we want reasonable medical insurance rates. A.S.A.P.

NOW
Did this poll ask these people if they wanted OBAMA'S PLAN--because Gallop & Pew polls are showing that the majority of Americans do not want Obama's plan.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

What confounds me no end is why anyone would think that a for-profit based system is somehow better for them.

For profit means innovation to make even more profit.

Not for insurers: all they have to do is cut benefits and raise premiums. Which they've been doing for decades and which they'll just continue to do if they get their way now.

Dont be a ideological loon....be a centrist centrismsvoice.

I'm not a fan of the federal government but I'm no ideologue. But you might want to ask yourself who's funding the people you've been listening to lately.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I didn't know anyone funded the history of how our govt has handled programs.

I just read the numbers.

Who is funding you J/K on that last one


Prove to me that any of what i just claimed about SS, Medicare, Native american health care, cash for clunker funding, jobs still being lost, congress not reading the bills they are signing, and a lack of a viable funding program for hr3200 are wrong.

If you do, and do so legitimately, i will never make the claim again.

I think you might be able to get me on the last one

 

[Meister]

A new USA Today/Gallup poll just out of the field has some interesting data about Americans' opinions on health care reform, as the Congressional debate continues:

The poll of 3,026 adults, surveyed Friday through Sunday, has a margin of error of +/—2 percentage points. Some questions, asked of half the sample, have an error margin of +/—3 points.

By 56%-33%, those surveyed endorse the idea of enacting major health care changes this year. Just one in four say it's not important to them.

USA Today/Gallup Poll: Americans want health care reform | Fired Up! Missouri

You made this thread like 6 weeks ago and said it was 72% http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ricans-support-government-run-healthcare.html

you are a funny guy.

You do realize many of us want the system reformed but very few of us support the House Resolution 3200 that the President is pushing right now, dont you?

not that you will actually answer a legitimate challenge to your ideology

Sorry to prove you wrong again....do you ever research anything?

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

You used a June 20, 2009 poll Chris. That was before anyone even knew what was in the package.
Try to do a little better research next time, OK?

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

I didn't know anyone funded the history of how our govt has handled programs.

I just read the numbers.

Who is funding you J/K on that last one

I wish someone were funding me for doing this.

Prove to me that any of what i just claimed about SS, Medicare, Native american health care, cash for clunker funding, jobs still being lost, congress not reading the bills they are signing, and a lack of a viable funding program for hr3200 are wrong.

The proof would take multiple-page threads for each issue, but to make a long story short: Neither SS nor Medicare is broke yet, many of the native tribes have easy access to medical care (I'd need specific examples for a detailed proof), cash for clunkers has just been given more funding and is no longer broke - you may have seen that in the news - congressional members nearly always read the bills they vote for or against (or are beholden to a powerful lobby when they decide not to), and I have no idea what kind of funding you would consider "viable" for HR 3200 or why the funding stipulated in that bill is not viable in your eyes.

If you do, and do so legitimately, i will never make the claim again.

I think you might be able to get me on the last one

Feel free to start threads on any or all of the above and I'll be glad to discuss them at greater length.