55 Day Wait to See a Doctor in Massachusetts

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

 

[Avorysuds]

FUCKING RICH PEOPLE! YOU WANA RETIRE RATHER THAN WORK YOUR LIFE AWAY TO SERVER THE POPULATION THAT MADE YOU RICH!!!
fuuuuuUUUK YOU!

=D

 

[jgarden]

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth

..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank country (years) Date of Information
*********************************
1 Monaco 89.73 2011 est.

10 Italy 81.77 2011 est.

12 Canada 81.38 2011 est.

13 France 81.19 2011 est.

14 Spain 81.17 2011 est.

15 Switzerland 81.07 2011 est.

16 Sweden 81.07 2011 est.

18 Iceland 80.90 2011 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.31 2011 est.

25 Norway 80.20 2011 est.

26 Ireland 80.19 2011 est.

27 Germany 80.07 2011 est.

28 United Kingdom 80.05 2011 est.

30 Greece 79.92 2011 est.

32 Austria 79.78 2011 est.

34 Malta 79.72 2011 est.

35 Netherlands 79.68 2011 est.

36 Luxembourg 79.61 2011 est.

37 Belgium 79.51 2011 est.

39 Finland 79.27 2011 est.

44 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.81 2011 est.

47 Gibraltar 78.68 2011 est.

48 Denmark 78.63 2011 est.

49 Portugal 78.54 2011 est.

50 United States 78.37 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

 

[editec]

Well...we know that socialized medicine is going to come with the problems associated with all socialized solutions, so this doesn't really surprise me.

Of course the only real way to evaluate a totally privatized system against a fully socialized system is to compare the aggregate morbidity and mortality statistics of the overall population and costs over time, too.

For all we know it might make good sense for society as a whole if people have to wait a bit to see their doctors.

Wouldn't surprise me, to be honest.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

Perhaps you'd care to explain what events determine and measure one's life expectancy and summarize how all of those events differ around the world.

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

Those aren't assertions, those are facts. Feel free to prove otherwise.

When you start thinking, please reply.

 

[editec]

Queueing is CERTAINLY a contrivance of socialized medicine.

You guys do know that I studied HC management leading to an MBA, right?

Queueing is one of the techniques that proponents of socialized medicine openly ADMIT is part of the system to keep down costs.

What queueing does is eliminate many of the hypocondriaical medical visits that come from THIRD PARTY payment systems (3rd party payments systems include both socialized and private HC systems).

 

[Toronado3800]

I had time to do some thnking while in line at the post office. First I thought the post office really knew how to piss folks off by keeping them standing in line with one person working.

Then I thought the post office does one hell of a job getting all americans their mail even up in Alaska.

 

[boedicca]

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth

..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank country (years) Date of Information
*********************************
1 Monaco 89.73 2011 est.

10 Italy 81.77 2011 est.

12 Canada 81.38 2011 est.

13 France 81.19 2011 est.

14 Spain 81.17 2011 est.

15 Switzerland 81.07 2011 est.

16 Sweden 81.07 2011 est.

18 Iceland 80.90 2011 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.31 2011 est.

25 Norway 80.20 2011 est.

26 Ireland 80.19 2011 est.

27 Germany 80.07 2011 est.

28 United Kingdom 80.05 2011 est.

30 Greece 79.92 2011 est.

32 Austria 79.78 2011 est.

34 Malta 79.72 2011 est.

35 Netherlands 79.68 2011 est.

36 Luxembourg 79.61 2011 est.

37 Belgium 79.51 2011 est.

39 Finland 79.27 2011 est.

44 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.81 2011 est.

47 Gibraltar 78.68 2011 est.

48 Denmark 78.63 2011 est.

49 Portugal 78.54 2011 est.

50 United States 78.37 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

You are making apples to oranges comparisons.

The U.S. death rate is affected by:

- Gang violence (exacerbated by the inane WAR ON DRUGS)
- Vehicle deaths (we drive more miles per capita than anyone)
- Counting premature babies as live births (many countries count them as still born)

When adjusted for these factors, life expectancy in the U.S. is very high

 

[Avorysuds]

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth

..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank country (years) Date of Information
*********************************
1 Monaco 89.73 2011 est.

10 Italy 81.77 2011 est.

12 Canada 81.38 2011 est.

13 France 81.19 2011 est.

14 Spain 81.17 2011 est.

15 Switzerland 81.07 2011 est.

16 Sweden 81.07 2011 est.

18 Iceland 80.90 2011 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.31 2011 est.

25 Norway 80.20 2011 est.

26 Ireland 80.19 2011 est.

27 Germany 80.07 2011 est.

28 United Kingdom 80.05 2011 est.

30 Greece 79.92 2011 est.

32 Austria 79.78 2011 est.

34 Malta 79.72 2011 est.

35 Netherlands 79.68 2011 est.

36 Luxembourg 79.61 2011 est.

37 Belgium 79.51 2011 est.

39 Finland 79.27 2011 est.

44 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.81 2011 est.

47 Gibraltar 78.68 2011 est.

48 Denmark 78.63 2011 est.

49 Portugal 78.54 2011 est.

50 United States 78.37 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

Obesity.
OOOoooo, I win. As other countries are catching up with the US on obesity rates their life expectancy declines as well… Believe it or not Obesity is the number 1 killer in America, don’t believe me go find that #1 reason and then find what cased that.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What queueing does is eliminate many of the hypocondriaical medical visits that come from THIRD PARTY payment systems (3rd party payments systems include both socialized and private HC systems).

It also keep legitimately sick people out of the hospital leading to unneeded suffering and sometimes death.

 

[AquaAthena]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

The wave of the future? And the only reason I have NOT to want Romney for president, even though I think he is the most qualified, in all other ways. But the lurking voice inside my head, tells me he must have wanted socialized medicine in MA. Of course he has learned much of the pitfalls of that, but still.....just the fact that he liked the idea, throws a red flag up and it is **HUGE!**

 

[Trajan]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

he doesn't say how these folks are. are they medicaid or medicare people or?

As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

because, if thats what 60-70% of us have to look forward to, who have ind. policies or employer plans, no thank you.

 

[auditor0007]

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth

..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank country (years) Date of Information
*********************************
1 Monaco 89.73 2011 est.

10 Italy 81.77 2011 est.

12 Canada 81.38 2011 est.

13 France 81.19 2011 est.

14 Spain 81.17 2011 est.

15 Switzerland 81.07 2011 est.

16 Sweden 81.07 2011 est.

18 Iceland 80.90 2011 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.31 2011 est.

25 Norway 80.20 2011 est.

26 Ireland 80.19 2011 est.

27 Germany 80.07 2011 est.

28 United Kingdom 80.05 2011 est.

30 Greece 79.92 2011 est.

32 Austria 79.78 2011 est.

34 Malta 79.72 2011 est.

35 Netherlands 79.68 2011 est.

36 Luxembourg 79.61 2011 est.

37 Belgium 79.51 2011 est.

39 Finland 79.27 2011 est.

44 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.81 2011 est.

47 Gibraltar 78.68 2011 est.

48 Denmark 78.63 2011 est.

49 Portugal 78.54 2011 est.

50 United States 78.37 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

That's because of gun control and accidents. Those countries don't have near the number of homicides as we do, and we also have a higher rate of death due to vehicle accidents than most of those countries. Add to that our obesity problem, and you have the three main causes of a shorter life expectancy in the US. Otherwise, our life expectancy is approximately the same as those countries. The good thing is that we get to pay twice as much as people in those countries for our medical care.

 

[theHawk]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

The wave of the future? And the only reason I have NOT to want Romney for president, even though I think he is the most qualified, in all other ways. But the lurking voice inside my head, tells me he must have wanted socialized medicine in MA. Of course he has learned much of the pitfalls of that, but still.....just the fact that he liked the idea, throws a red flag up and it is **HUGE!**

Yes but that was on a state level. If the citizens of a state want a failed state run health care, they can pay for it and have it. Leave the rest of us out of it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Thank Gawd for states rights!

Can you imagine this on a Federal level?

I'm so glad we can learn from other peoples mistakes and reduce the non-sense from obamacare to keep this from occuring coast to coast.


Did they ever get the rampant cost under control? Last I heard they needed $15B/year from the Fed just to keep it afloat.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Queueing is CERTAINLY a contrivance of socialized medicine.

You guys do know that I studied HC management leading to an MBA, right?

Queueing is one of the techniques that proponents of socialized medicine openly ADMIT is part of the system to keep down costs.

What queueing does is eliminate many of the hypocondriaical medical visits that come from THIRD PARTY payment systems (3rd party payments systems include both socialized and private HC systems).

I was Queueing for online video games before obamacare

Sorry Im not adding to the discussion but I couldn't resist. I hate waiting in the queue it pisses me off.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I had time to do some thnking while in line at the post office. First I thought the post office really knew how to piss folks off by keeping them standing in line with one person working.

Then I thought the post office does one hell of a job getting all americans their mail even up in Alaska.

You still use the post office?

 

[Gadawg73]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

The average medical school student graduates with a little less than $100,000.00 in debt.
Staggering but not the figure you give.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And, at the same time, fewer young people are likely to decide that medicine is a good career. Remember, the average medical school graduate begins their career with more than $295,000 in debt.

A 2010 IBD/TPP Poll found that 45% of doctors would at least consider leaving their practices or taking early retirement as a result of the new health care law. And, an online survey by Sermo.com, a sort of Facebook for physicians, found that 26% of physicians in solo practices were considering closing. Of course, not every doctor who told these polls that he or she would consider leaving the field will actually do so. But if even a small portion depart, our access to medical care will suffer.

In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.

Doc holiday - NYPOST.com

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

The average medical school student graduates with a little less than $100,000.00 in debt.
Staggering but not the figure you give.

I didn't give the figure; the article did. Do you have supporting evidence of this?

 

[jgarden]

Guess I got out of the Bay State just in time. We're already starting to see the longer waits and shortages of care that the Canadians and Europeans have been dealing with for decades. Growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives to become one.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth
Gang violence (exacerbated by the inane WAR ON DRUGS)
- Vehicle deaths (we drive more miles per capita than anyone)
- Counting premature babies
..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank country (years) Date of Information
*********************************
1 Monaco 89.73 2011 est.

10 Italy 81.77 2011 est.

12 Canada 81.38 2011 est.

13 France 81.19 2011 est.

14 Spain 81.17 2011 est.

15 Switzerland 81.07 2011 est.

16 Sweden 81.07 2011 est.

18 Iceland 80.90 2011 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.31 2011 est.

25 Norway 80.20 2011 est.

26 Ireland 80.19 2011 est.

27 Germany 80.07 2011 est.

28 United Kingdom 80.05 2011 est.

30 Greece 79.92 2011 est.

32 Austria 79.78 2011 est.

34 Malta 79.72 2011 est.

35 Netherlands 79.68 2011 est.

36 Luxembourg 79.61 2011 est.

37 Belgium 79.51 2011 est.

39 Finland 79.27 2011 est.

44 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

45 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.81 2011 est.

47 Gibraltar 78.68 2011 est.

48 Denmark 78.63 2011 est.

49 Portugal 78.54 2011 est.

50 United States 78.37 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Perhaps "Dont Taz Me Bro" would care to explain that if "..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....," according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook, then why does Canada and most European nations have average life expectancies substantially longer than their American counterparts?

This is all the more peculiar if you accept ""Dont Taz Me Bro's" assertion the healthcare systems in Canadian and European are chacterized by "longer waits and shortages of care .... growing demand, insufficient supply of doctors, and disincentives ....."

You are making apples to oranges comparisons.

The U.S. death rate is affected by:

- Gang violence (exacerbated by the inane WAR ON DRUGS)
- Vehicle deaths (we drive more miles per capita than anyone)
- Counting premature babies as live births (many countries count them as still born)

When adjusted for these factors, life expectancy in the U.S. is very high

- Gang violence (exacerbated by the inane WAR ON DRUGS)
- Vehicle deaths (we drive more miles per capita than anyone)
- Counting premature babies as live births

While proceeding to question the validity of the "documented" evidence that I provided, I'm sure that it must have conveniently slipped "boedicca's" mind that all her assertions are based on unsubstantiated claims!

Then again when you already know all the answers, what's the need for "documented evidence" or "substantiated claims?"

As for the 49 other nations that precceed the US on the "Country Comparison Chart: Life Expectancy at Birth," I'm sure that its news to them that "violence" (gang, terrorist and otherwise), the War on Drugs, vehicle deaths and premature babies are unique to the US, and not universal problems.

I fully expected that this "apples to oranges comparisons" argument was coming which is exactly why I chose the 2011 CIA World Factbook as my data source in the first place.

The "conservative" argument asserts that American society is "exceptional" in so many ways, that it is virtually impossible to make meaningful comparisons between the US and all other nations - including Canada with which it shares 5 525 miles of common border.

This "shoot-the-messenger" strategy stems from the fact that based by international comparisons, Americans are not being well-served by her traditional conservative policy choices - choices that our "right-wing" friends are all too eager make for you!

Conversely, the CIA World Factbook, a branch of the federal government, asserts that statistical comparisons between the US and other nations are valid - otherwise, why would it continue to provide them?