507,533 Signatures Collected As Of Today

[Oldstyle]

The Tea Party basically is calling for smaller government and responsible fiscal policy that deals with our out of control deficit. Why exactly is that an "unrealistic dream"? Because YOU believe in big government and don't care about huge deficits? I hate to burst your progressive bubble here, Sat but what the Tea Party wants is prudent and realistic...what YOU want is foolish and unrealistic.

Ha! The Tea Party became energized about those deficits only when a Democrat moved into the WH. The unfunded Medicare Part D, the unfunded wars, the fiscally irresponsible Bush tax cuts-all of that got nothing more than grumbles from you. You reelected Bush, in spite of all of that.

What the Tea Party wants is a fantasy. They want us to rule the entire world with a tiny and weak federal government. They want us to rapidly contract government spending in a time of economic crisis. They want us to go back to an original USC-one that would not work for the modern world.

Why is smaller government and prudent fiscal policy a "fantasy"? Are you really here making the case that waste and duplicate programs are not rampant in Washington? That we couldn't shrink our bloated Federal Government substantially? Are you really here to make the case that living within our means is impossible and that we shouldn't even make the effort to try? So what...we're just going to turn into Greece? Go belly up without making an effort to fix the problem?

This really isn't rocket science, Sat...we spend way too much. We need to get it under control. If we don't then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It doesn't have to do with a temper tantrum, it has to do with Walker's corrupt connection with the Koch brothers and busting unions. What that bastard and his cronies tried to do was much more serious than a temper tantrum.

Voters in Ohio realize this. That bill was struck down by the people. This may have been a better course to take in Wisconsin but they had to do what they had to do.

You're a hypocrite, if you're so concerned about corruption you must really be pissed at the obama administration and all of it's corruption.

 

[SAT2]

Again, the point is that any criticism of Democrats over this recall necessarily makes the GOP party members on this board look like massive hypocrites-because they have supported overturning elections where they did not like the outcome. In this case, Walker pushed through a policy that he did not run on.

Bill Clinton was impeached because he lied to Congress...it had nothing to do with his election.

The investigations started immediately after the election, and continued until they found some cover for the impeachment. I do not believe it's at all correct to say that it was over "lying to Congress".

The GOP simply cannot accept a WH loss. They have tantrums.

Grey Davis was an awful governor in just about any way you want to look at it. My point was that conservatives didn't try to have him recalled immediately after he was first elected like Democrats have tried to do in Wisconsin...they did a recall SIX YEARS after his initial election.

No, that's incorrect.

Davis was elected in 1999. He was reelected in 2002. The recall was in 2003, almost immediately after Davis' reelection. Darrell Issa was a driving force behind the recall-it was not over Davis' "awful" performance.

Gray Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for 2000? I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say the Republicans weren't willing to let the "process" continue. The "process" continued right up until the Supreme Court ruling and that's about as far as the "process" CAN continue.

Yeah, and that's where the "states rights" party took it-to Daddy's SCOTUS.

 

[SAT2]

If no signature matches any of the voters at the address, it won't be counted. You can't automatically strike names just because they look funny. You still have to look them up in the voter rolls. Believe me, there are people with some messed up names out there.

I went to college with a Shirley Temple and a Donna Reed.

Well I expect the voters in WI will have the common sense to keep a Gov who has straightened out the mess left by the previous Dem Governors. I know I would and I'm a public sector worker.

After all thats what he was elected to do. This recall crap is just sour grapes from the Unions. Hope they lose millions on the effort.

Apparantly the only workers SAT is concerned with are those in the public sector that are unionized. The rest of the WI workers can just pay the taxes and don't count for shit.

Again, Walker used federal recovery act funds to "straighten" things out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Why is smaller government and prudent fiscal policy a "fantasy"? Are you really here making the case that waste and duplicate programs are not rampant in Washington? That we couldn't shrink our bloated Federal Government substantially? Are you really here to make the case that living within our means is impossible and that we shouldn't even make the effort to try? So what...we're just going to turn into Greece? Go belly up without making an effort to fix the problem?

This really isn't rocket science, Sat...we spend way too much. We need to get it under control. If we don't then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

I want us to live within our means-which includes paying for wars, negotiating for better drug prices for seniors, and not giving a series of massive tax cuts to the wealthy on the backs of the rest of us.

Please compare our federal spending with other modern, successful nations. Thanks in advance for thinking about this instead of reciting slogans.

 

[Oldstyle]

Again, the point is that any criticism of Democrats over this recall necessarily makes the GOP party members on this board look like massive hypocrites-because they have supported overturning elections where they did not like the outcome. In this case, Walker pushed through a policy that he did not run on.

Bill Clinton was impeached because he lied to Congress...it had nothing to do with his election.

The investigations started immediately after the election, and continued until they found some cover for the impeachment. I do not believe it's at all correct to say that it was over "lying to Congress".

The GOP simply cannot accept a WH loss. They have tantrums.

Grey Davis was an awful governor in just about any way you want to look at it. My point was that conservatives didn't try to have him recalled immediately after he was first elected like Democrats have tried to do in Wisconsin...they did a recall SIX YEARS after his initial election.

No, that's incorrect.

Davis was elected in 1999. He was reelected in 2002. The recall was in 2003, almost immediately after Davis' reelection. Darrell Issa was a driving force behind the recall-it was not over Davis' "awful" performance.

Gray Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for 2000? I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say the Republicans weren't willing to let the "process" continue. The "process" continued right up until the Supreme Court ruling and that's about as far as the "process" CAN continue.

Yeah, and that's where the "states rights" party took it-to Daddy's SCOTUS.

Yes, Slick Willie was plagued by investigations throughout his two terms as President but that was because the Clinton's personal "peccadilloes" involving sexual harrassment and the shady Whitewater land deal was stonewalled by the Clintons for most of the time they were in office. Trying to get a straight answer out of either of the Clintons was like pulling teeth. Or have you forgotten the whole definition of "is" thing?

My point about Davis remains...the Republicans didn't ask for a recall of him at the very earliest time possible as the Democrats have done in Wisconsin. He was recalled because of the terrible state he'd put California into.

As for Gore and Bush? I still don't see how that translates into an example of a recall vote by Republicans.

 

[007]

Signing a petition more than once isn't fraud. Got any examples of your "etc, etc"?

No, it's CHEATING. You don't have a problem with that?

No, it's not. Only ONE of the signatures will be counted so, no, I don't have a problem with that.

Guess what I do all winter long? Signature check petitions. Signing a petition more than once happens ALL THE TIME. It's not fraud since only ONE of the signatures counts towards the petition. All others are rejected as duplicates.

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

Wisconsin is going to have a recall election. They will get the signatures needed to have an election. Now, whether or not Wanker gets recalled remains to be seen, but win or lose it will be a wake up call to Wanker... Get your shit together, stop gutting education and attacking the unions. Try WORKING WITH the unions like other states have done. Maybe if he does that NOW, he'll stand a better chance when the election rolls around.

Wisconsin MIGHT have a recall election. I live here. I listen to the local news. News that otherwise isn't heard around the nation, and there is plenty of skepticism yet as to if there will be an election. There's plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and deadlines to meet long before any election can take place. So you radicals creaming yourselves over this bastardization and abuse of the recall system, which by the way they're working on changing in Wisconsin so this abuse isn't repeated, you socialists and union thugs are all a little premature in your celebrations.

 

[PredFan]

If the people of Wisconsin are stupid enough to get rid of Scott Walker and replace him with someone who will bow to the whims of the unions, then they deserve what they get. Stupidity should be painful and costly. We in Florida, a right to work state, will be glad to take the businesses that they lose.

 

[PredFan]

No, it's CHEATING. You don't have a problem with that?

No, it's not. Only ONE of the signatures will be counted so, no, I don't have a problem with that.

Guess what I do all winter long? Signature check petitions. Signing a petition more than once happens ALL THE TIME. It's not fraud since only ONE of the signatures counts towards the petition. All others are rejected as duplicates.

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

Wisconsin is going to have a recall election. They will get the signatures needed to have an election. Now, whether or not Wanker gets recalled remains to be seen, but win or lose it will be a wake up call to Wanker... Get your shit together, stop gutting education and attacking the unions. Try WORKING WITH the unions like other states have done. Maybe if he does that NOW, he'll stand a better chance when the election rolls around.

Wisconsin MIGHT have a recall election. I live here. I listen to the local news. News that otherwise isn't heard around the nation, and there is plenty of skepticism yet as to if there will be an election. There's plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and deadlines to meet long before any election can take place. So you radicals creaming yourselves over this bastardization and abuse of the recall system, which by the way they're working on changing in Wisconsin so this abuse isn't repeated, you socialists and union thugs are all a little premature in your celebrations.

I have no problem with it. Besides, it's typical of unions goons and thugs to cheat. lie, and/or steal. If they are cheating, then it won't do them any good because the election they are trying to get will blow up in thier faces. I'm very fine with that happening.

 

[Oldstyle]

If no signature matches any of the voters at the address, it won't be counted. You can't automatically strike names just because they look funny. You still have to look them up in the voter rolls. Believe me, there are people with some messed up names out there.

I went to college with a Shirley Temple and a Donna Reed.

Well I expect the voters in WI will have the common sense to keep a Gov who has straightened out the mess left by the previous Dem Governors. I know I would and I'm a public sector worker.

After all thats what he was elected to do. This recall crap is just sour grapes from the Unions. Hope they lose millions on the effort.

Apparantly the only workers SAT is concerned with are those in the public sector that are unionized. The rest of the WI workers can just pay the taxes and don't count for shit.

Again, Walker used federal recovery act funds to "straighten" things out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Why is smaller government and prudent fiscal policy a "fantasy"? Are you really here making the case that waste and duplicate programs are not rampant in Washington? That we couldn't shrink our bloated Federal Government substantially? Are you really here to make the case that living within our means is impossible and that we shouldn't even make the effort to try? So what...we're just going to turn into Greece? Go belly up without making an effort to fix the problem?

This really isn't rocket science, Sat...we spend way too much. We need to get it under control. If we don't then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

I want us to live within our means-which includes paying for wars, negotiating for better drug prices for seniors, and not giving a series of massive tax cuts to the wealthy on the backs of the rest of us.

Please compare our federal spending with other modern, successful nations. Thanks in advance for thinking about this instead of reciting slogans.

When have I recited slogans? I simply pointed out that the Tea Party's goals are not some pie in the sky dream scenario...they are common sense requests by some pretty down to earth people who see a real problem with the way our country is being run.

I guess we could spend hours comparing what "our" Federal Government spends in contrast to other governments but what's the point? The fact is that everyone knows "our" Federal Government has grown into a bloated, inefficient entity that unless we undertake some serious corrections will bankrupt us as a country. We give lip service to making cuts and reforming entitlements but nothing ever really happens. So instead of wasting our time contrasting what we spend compared to other "modern, successful nations"? How about we spend that time figuring out how to get our spending under control so we don't become one of the "modern insolvent nations"?

 

[SAT2]

Yes, Slick Willie was plagued by investigations throughout his two terms as President but that was because the Clinton's personal "peccadilloes" involving sexual harrassment and the shady Whitewater land deal was stonewalled by the Clintons for most of the time they were in office. Trying to get a straight answer out of either of the Clintons was like pulling teeth. Or have you forgotten the whole definition of "is" thing?

You have forgotten, or maybe you never knew, about Bush I's cheating, or Bush II's failed investment deal, and special treatment by the SEC-neither of which merited a special prosecutor.

Since Reagan, your party has little patience with elections. I listed the evidence.

My point about Davis remains...the Republicans didn't ask for a recall of him at the very earliest time possible as the Democrats have done in Wisconsin. He was recalled because of the terrible state he'd put California into.

Your point is rendered impotent. The people of the state reelected Davis, and the recall was almost immediately afterward. The recall was initiated by Issa, who hoped to get the job.

As for Gore and Bush? I still don't see how that translates into an example of a recall vote by Republicans.

Again, your party is the party of anti-democracy. Elections that result in Democratic wins are challenged by one means or another. Special prosecutors, stopping recounts, demanding birth certificates-this is what your party does to undermine our nation.

 

[SAT2]

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

The process will be thorough. This should not be a concern. The list will be reviewed with a fine toothed comb.

Then have I recited slogans? I simply pointed out that the Tea Party's goals are not some pie in the sky dream scenario...they are common sense requests by some pretty down to earth people who see a real problem with the way our country is being run.

Continuously, you have recited slogans.

I guess we could spend hours comparing what "our" Federal Government spends in contrast to other governments but what's the point? The fact is that everyone knows "our" Federal Government has grown into a bloated, inefficient entity that unless we undertake some serious corrections will bankrupt us as a country. We give lip service to making cuts and reforming entitlements but nothing ever really happens. So instead of wasting our time contrasting what we spend compared to other "modern, successful nations"? How about we spend that time figuring out how to get our spending under control so we don't become one of the "modern insolvent nations"?

I asked that you look so that you could contemplate the modern world as it really exists. Not as it existed over 200 years ago.

We'd be in better shape if we hadn't gone to war with Iraq, if we hadn't made bad decisions with Medicare like passing but not funding Part D, and starting up Medicare Advantage, like cutting taxes for the rich, like allowing the lack of oversight of the financial sector that led to the meltdown, etc, etc. Bush policies. Bush policies. Bush policies.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No, it's CHEATING. You don't have a problem with that?

No, it's not. Only ONE of the signatures will be counted so, no, I don't have a problem with that.

Guess what I do all winter long? Signature check petitions. Signing a petition more than once happens ALL THE TIME. It's not fraud since only ONE of the signatures counts towards the petition. All others are rejected as duplicates.

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

Wisconsin is going to have a recall election. They will get the signatures needed to have an election. Now, whether or not Wanker gets recalled remains to be seen, but win or lose it will be a wake up call to Wanker... Get your shit together, stop gutting education and attacking the unions. Try WORKING WITH the unions like other states have done. Maybe if he does that NOW, he'll stand a better chance when the election rolls around.

Wisconsin MIGHT have a recall election. I live here. I listen to the local news. News that otherwise isn't heard around the nation, and there is plenty of skepticism yet as to if there will be an election. There's plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and deadlines to meet long before any election can take place. So you radicals creaming yourselves over this bastardization and abuse of the recall system, which by the way they're working on changing in Wisconsin so this abuse isn't repeated, you socialists and union thugs are all a little premature in your celebrations.

If you are going to make changes the one thing I would change is the numbers needed for a recall. The number of votes for the winner should be the number need for a recall.

 

[Oldstyle]

Yes, Slick Willie was plagued by investigations throughout his two terms as President but that was because the Clinton's personal "peccadilloes" involving sexual harrassment and the shady Whitewater land deal was stonewalled by the Clintons for most of the time they were in office. Trying to get a straight answer out of either of the Clintons was like pulling teeth. Or have you forgotten the whole definition of "is" thing?

You have forgotten, or maybe you never knew, about Bush I's cheating, or Bush II's failed investment deal, and special treatment by the SEC-neither of which merited a special prosecutor.

Since Reagan, your party has little patience with elections. I listed the evidence.

My point about Davis remains...the Republicans didn't ask for a recall of him at the very earliest time possible as the Democrats have done in Wisconsin. He was recalled because of the terrible state he'd put California into.

Your point is rendered impotent. The people of the state reelected Davis, and the recall was almost immediately afterward. The recall was initiated by Issa, who hoped to get the job.

As for Gore and Bush? I still don't see how that translates into an example of a recall vote by Republicans.

Again, your party is the party of anti-democracy. Elections that result in Democratic wins are challenged by one means or another. Special prosecutors, stopping recounts, demanding birth certificates-this is what your party does to undermine our nation.

How is what the GOP did during the Gore/Bush election, "anti democracy"? That election DIDN'T result in a Democratic win. Bush won Florida. The result was challenged by Democrats who then tried several different recount scenarios to come up with a different result of which none were successful. They then took their case to the courts and once again they were unsuccessful.

Now contrast that with what's happened in Wisconsin. The Democrats LOST in an election and they immediately responded by occupying the State House with protesters so that legislators couldn't do their jobs while Democratic lawmakers fled over the State line so that they couldn't be compelled to come in and make up a quorum so that voting on legislation could take place. At the same time recalls were started for every GOP politician that they could.

So you tell me who's "anti democracy" here, Sat...because I'm just not seeing it...

 

[Seawytch]

No, it's CHEATING. You don't have a problem with that?

No, it's not. Only ONE of the signatures will be counted so, no, I don't have a problem with that.

Guess what I do all winter long? Signature check petitions. Signing a petition more than once happens ALL THE TIME. It's not fraud since only ONE of the signatures counts towards the petition. All others are rejected as duplicates.

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

It's not a "might", it is a WILL. Duplicate signatures ARE NOT COUNTED. It's not cheating.

It's "petition season" here in California. You can't swing a purse without hitting a petition gatherer. Lots of people sign petitions multiple times. Only ONE gets counted.

I sure don't blame Wisconsinites for signing multiple petitions...especially when they hear about all the pro Wanker folks destroying them. Now that actually is cheating.

Wisconsin MIGHT have a recall election. I live here. I listen to the local news. News that otherwise isn't heard around the nation, and there is plenty of skepticism yet as to if there will be an election. There's plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and deadlines to meet long before any election can take place. So you radicals creaming yourselves over this bastardization and abuse of the recall system, which by the way they're working on changing in Wisconsin so this abuse isn't repeated, you socialists and union thugs are all a little premature in your celebrations.

The outlook for an election is much more favorable in the will than the will not category. The signature gatherers are well on their way to have gathered more than enough for it to be on the ballot. It's going to happen.

How is using the system in place for recall "abusing" it? If the people of Wisconsin are following the rules put in place for a recall, how is that bastardizing the system? Sounds like Wanker is scared and trying to game the system to save his job. That's just going to piss off more people that will sign the recall petition. Wanker doesn't seem to be learning anything from this at all.

 

[Oldstyle]

Yes, it is. It's cheating. No one should be signing the same petition more than once. If they do, it's dishonest and cheating, plain and simple. Just because someone might possibly catch the cheating doesn't make it not cheating.

The process will be thorough. This should not be a concern. The list will be reviewed with a fine toothed comb.

Then have I recited slogans? I simply pointed out that the Tea Party's goals are not some pie in the sky dream scenario...they are common sense requests by some pretty down to earth people who see a real problem with the way our country is being run.

Continuously, you have recited slogans.

I guess we could spend hours comparing what "our" Federal Government spends in contrast to other governments but what's the point? The fact is that everyone knows "our" Federal Government has grown into a bloated, inefficient entity that unless we undertake some serious corrections will bankrupt us as a country. We give lip service to making cuts and reforming entitlements but nothing ever really happens. So instead of wasting our time contrasting what we spend compared to other "modern, successful nations"? How about we spend that time figuring out how to get our spending under control so we don't become one of the "modern insolvent nations"?

I asked that you look so that you could contemplate the modern world as it really exists. Not as it existed over 200 years ago.

We'd be in better shape if we hadn't gone to war with Iraq, if we hadn't made bad decisions with Medicare like passing but not funding Part D, and starting up Medicare Advantage, like cutting taxes for the rich, like allowing the lack of oversight of the financial sector that led to the meltdown, etc, etc. Bush policies. Bush policies. Bush policies.

I've continuously recited slogans? Please point out the ones that I've recited.

And I honestly don't know where you're going with the whole modern world thing? 200 years ago? What does that have to do with living within your means budgetwise?

 

[MarcATL]

As for my "claim" that teachers in Wisconsin have lavish pay and benefit packages? If you took the time to read you own cite from FactCheck you'd see that the average salary and benefits for teachers in Milwaukee was $100,000. I think that fits the definition of "lavish"...don't you?

What's fair compensation for a school teacher? How much should the persons that are largely responsible for educating our kids, the future of this country make? Should there be a cap? Should there be a minimum? You tell me.

 

[Amelia]

But funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act — known as the stimulus act — also played a significant part in easing the state’s budget woes. More than $2 billion in stimulus funds were used to narrow the budget gap for the 2009-2011 cycle. That’s money the state will have to do without this time around, since those funds run out at the end of June, according to Robert Lang, the fiscal bureau director.

FactCheck.org : Wisconsin’s Baffling Budget Battle

Yet another GOP Governor talking about balancing the budget with his fiscal seriousness-when what he really did was use federal funds as a stop gap....

The DEMOCRAT governor Doyle used the stimulus funds as the stop gap.

I see other things you've gotten wrong but they're more complicated than I'd care to take on given the assumptions I see you working with. This one was easy to comment on. So there you go.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

As for my "claim" that teachers in Wisconsin have lavish pay and benefit packages? If you took the time to read you own cite from FactCheck you'd see that the average salary and benefits for teachers in Milwaukee was $100,000. I think that fits the definition of "lavish"...don't you?

What's fair compensation for a school teacher? How much should the persons that are largely responsible for educating our kids, the future of this country make? Should there be a cap? Should there be a minimum? You tell me.

You quote a post that I am supposed to have made and ask me a question using that quote as if I was going to answer your question. How dishonest are you? Hell there's no post with in this thread with those words that I have made.


Here's what I said from the post you quoted.

xxxxxx[/COLOR]quote=MarcATL;4545756]To give Scottie Walker his walking papers. For whatever reason the quote box was suppose to refer to Oldstyle, not Bigreb. I made a few adjustments. I don't think there was fault to anyone.-Meister

Out of a total of 94% of the 540,000 needed. Their internal goal is 740,000 or thereabouts.

It's a wrap folks...Scottie's TOAST!!!



Source: The Wisconsin Democratic Party

Scott Walker Recall Effort Collected 507,000 Signatures in a Month | Mother Jones

So the minority over rules the majority?[/QUOTE]

 

[MarcATL]

Wisconsin is going to have a recall election. They will get the signatures needed to have an election. Now, whether or not Wanker gets recalled remains to be seen, but win or lose it will be a wake up call to Wanker... Get your shit together, stop gutting education and attacking the unions. Try WORKING WITH the unions like other states have done. Maybe if he does that NOW, he'll stand a better chance when the election rolls around.

And that's the long and short of it.

 

[Claudette]

But funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act — known as the stimulus act — also played a significant part in easing the state’s budget woes. More than $2 billion in stimulus funds were used to narrow the budget gap for the 2009-2011 cycle. That’s money the state will have to do without this time around, since those funds run out at the end of June, according to Robert Lang, the fiscal bureau director.

FactCheck.org : Wisconsin’s Baffling Budget Battle

Yet another GOP Governor talking about balancing the budget with his fiscal seriousness-when what he really did was use federal funds as a stop gap....

The DEMOCRAT governor Doyle used the stimulus funds as the stop gap.

I see other things you've gotten wrong but they're more complicated than I'd care to take on given the assumptions I see you working with. This one was easy to comment on. So there you go.

Sat is rather like TDM. The GOP is bad and dishonest and the Dems are golden.

Walker is digging his State out of a hole and heres hoping the voters in WI back him and tell the Unions to fuck off. LOL I wonder just how much tax money Walker has already saved his districts and his taxpayers??

Hope the Unions lose millions in a losing effort on their oh so idiotic recall.