5 myths about healthcare

[Luddly Neddite]

By T.R. Reid -- Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World

Speaking from my own experience, I agree with this article. Granted that I have never lived for a long term with the system described here, I have experienced it in both France and Belgium.

We are STUPID if we let this get away from us.

Also recommend the documentary and book, Money Driven Money. Really shows how most of the rest of the world has left us in the dust.

Money-Driven Medicine

You really do owe it to yourself to listen to both sides of this issue.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Where did that fat fuck 1% murderer Ted Kennedy go for his health care?

 

[Oddball]

#1 myth about socialized anything in America:

Politicians and bureaucrats can control the costs of anything.

 

[starcraftzzz]

#1 myth about socialized anything in America:

Politicians and bureaucrats can control the costs of anything.

Oh Is that why solziied medicein is 150% less expensive? Is that why socilzied energy/water utlitles are 30% less expensive? As always reality contrdaxcits republicans

 

[Oddball]

What does Medicare cost today, versus what it was projected to in 1965, Slapnutz?

G'head and adjust for inflation.

C'mon...You can look it up.

 

[starcraftzzz]

What does Medicare cost today, versus what it was projected to in 1965, Slapnutz?

G'head and adjust for inflation.

C'mon...You can look it up.

ROTFL. Are you so stupid that you think projected costs being more means Medicare is less efficient then private health care. Currently today Medicare costs have increased by 50% less then what private health care costs; that is despite Medicare providing better health outcomes and more services then private health care.
So come back when you are able to think.

 

[Oddball]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

 

[starcraftzzz]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Um considering that if Medicare was privatized it would cost 50% more while providing less services yes.
I realize that you are to stupid to realize that projected costs does not equal efficiency.
And I apologize that God gave you an IQ of 65.

 

[Oddball]

Sez you.

But I'm not the one here trying to pretend that American political bureaucracy has any kind of track record of containing the costs of anything.

Sucks to be you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Um considering that if Medicare was privatized it would cost 50% more while providing less services yes.
I realize that you are to stupid to realize that projected costs does not equal efficiency.
And I apologize that God gave you an IQ of 65.

According to who?

 

[starcraftzzz]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Um considering that if Medicare was privatized it would cost 50% more while providing less services yes.
I realize that you are to stupid to realize that projected costs does not equal efficiency.
And I apologize that God gave you an IQ of 65.

According to who?

According to anyone who isn't a retard.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Sez you.

But I'm not the one here trying to pretend that American political bureaucracy has any kind of track record of containing the costs of anything.

Sucks to be you.

Yes i sucks to be me a person who isn't a retard with an IQ of 65 like you who is unable to think. It would totally be cool if I was a dumbass like you

 

[Oddball]

Yeah...Right.

So, where is the track record of the American political bureaucracy controlling the costs of anything?

G'head....Name all the federal gubmint programs that have delivered more than they delivered and/or come in under projected costs of delivering.

I'll make it easier...Name one....Just one.

C'mon...Dazzle us.

 

[Vidi]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Actually, health care COSTS are driven up in the private sector then paid for by Medicare. Under a socislized system, costs are controlled because the government put price controls in place.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Actually, health care COSTS are driven up in the private sector then paid for by Medicare. Under a socislized system, costs are controlled because the government put price controls in place.

"In fact, every federal social program has cost far more than originally predicted. For instance, in 1967 the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that Medicare would cost $12 billion in 1990, a staggering $95 billion underestimate. Medicare first exceeded $12 billion in 1975. In 1965 federal actuaries figured the Medicare hospital program would end up running $9 billion in 1990. The cost was more than $66 billion.

In 1987 Congress estimated that the Medicaid Special Hospitals Subsidy would hit $100 million in 1992. The actual bill came to $11 billion. The initial costs of Medicare's kidney-dialysis program, passed in 1972, were more than twice projected levels.

The Congressional Budget Office doubled the estimated cost of Medicare's catastrophic insurance benefit — subsequently repealed — from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion annually within the first year of its passage. The agency increased the projected cost of the skilled nursing benefit an astonishing sevenfold over roughly the same time frame, from $2.1 billion to $13.5 billion. And in 1935 a naive Congress predicted $3.5 billion in Social Security outlays in 1980, one-thirtieth the actual level of $105 billion. "
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/bandow200311240827.asp

 

[Vidi]

By T.R. Reid -- Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World

Speaking from my own experience, I agree with this article. Granted that I have never lived for a long term with the system described here, I have experienced it in both France and Belgium.

We are STUPID if we let this get away from us.

Also recommend the documentary and book, Money Driven Money. Really shows how most of the rest of the world has left us in the dust.

Money-Driven Medicine

You really do owe it to yourself to listen to both sides of this issue.

If you liked the article, you should check out his book

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Healing-America-Global-Cheaper/dp/1594202346]Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care (9781594202346): T. R. Reid: Books[/ame]

It's a very good read. And if one were against "socialized medicine", the book also points to alternatives that can keep the costs manageable without going full court press lefty.

We can all disagree on the solution, but we ought to at least look at the choices objectively, then pick one. I doubt anyone can really argue that out health care system is perfect. No system is.

 

[Oddball]

So, you're actually going to try and argue that a massive bureaucratic entitlement program that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to costs is evidence of efficiency?

You are one seriously fucking daffy mofo.

Actually, health care COSTS are driven up in the private sector then paid for by Medicare. Under a socislized system, costs are controlled because the government put price controls in place.

BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You sound just like a dope dealer!!

 

[starcraftzzz]

Yeah...Right.

So, where is the track record of the American political bureaucracy controlling the costs of anything?

G'head....Name all the federal gubmint programs that have delivered more than they delivered and/or come in under projected costs of delivering.

I'll make it easier...Name one....Just one.

C'mon...Dazzle us.

The fact that you can't even spell government is enough to know you are a retard .
http://www.nursefamilypartnership.org/assets/PDF/Fact-sheets/NFP_Benefits-Cost
^Federal Nurse Family partnership program will save 1.26 dollars – 5.7 dollar for every dollar spent.

"Grinching": Right-Wing Media Attacks Obama For Industry-Promoted Christmas Tree Tax | Media Matters for America
^Commodity check-off programs and marketing orders have a 6/14-1 benefit cost ratio.

Clean Energy Has Highest Documented Rate of Return of Any Federal Program, But the WashPost Cluelessly Smears the Effort | ThinkProgress
^Government green energy research has a 75-1 benefit cost ratio

Top Five Reasons Congress Shouldn't Slash Funds for Advanced Vehicle Manufacturing to Pay for Disaster Relief | ThinkProgress
https://lpo.energy.gov/?page_id=43
^over a ten year period the ATVM will create 100,000 jobs and have a benefit cost ratio of almost 3-1 (employment benefits are not included)

Environmental Law & Policy Center : Benefits of high speed rail
^Rail spending creates 1.7-2.5 dollars in benefits for every dollar spent.

snopes.com: Clunker Math
^Cash for clunkers cost the government 3 billion dollars.
^Cash for clunkers will save .735 billion dollars in lower gas prices each year.

The Cost of the NASA Budget
^In 2005 every dollar invested in NASA created $10 in economic benefits

Government Investment in Innovation is Needed to Overcome the
^The Human Genome Project which occurred due to government spending cost the government 4 billion dollars.
^The project so far has created over 300,000 jobs and 800 billion in economic benefits.

Keynesian Economics Alive and Well in Greenville | ThinkProgress
^In the city of Greenville SC the government invested 13 million into a bridge and garden around a water fall as a result it has caused over 100 million in investments and economic activity in two years.

http://www.dlc.org/documents/AmeriBook/AmeriBook.pdf
^There have been 7 studies on AmeriCorps spending that show that for every dollar invest in it it creates 1.95 dollars in benefits.

Not Extending Unemployment Benefits Would Lower Economic Growth
^According to the CBO:
In the current recession every dollar spent on unemployment insurance creates $1.90 dollars in economic growth.
^According to Moody's
In the current recession every dollar spent on unemployment insurance creates $1.61 dollars in economic growth.
^According to the Labour department study: In the current recession every dollar spent on Unemployment insurance creates $2 dollars in economic growth.
******Every dollar spent on unemployment insurance creates
$1.8 dollars in GDP growth or 70% more than a private sector investment.
This economic growth comes from the increase in demand, since people on unemployment usually spend all that money very quickly.
^Unemployment benefits has kept 3.3 million people from falling into poverty.

Food stamps offer best stimulus - study - Jan. 29, 2008
^For every dollar spent on food stamps it creates 1.73 dollars in GDP benefits.

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayR...STORY=/www/story/01-08-2009/0004951598&EDATE=
^The 4.3 billion increase in head start funding created 90,000 jobs each job created would cost 60,000 dollars, which is half of the cost that it usually takes to create a job.
^For every $1 invested in head start programs it creates $9's in economic benefits. These benefits include increased earnings, employment, and decreased welfare, education, and crime costs.

Family planning is a public health winner | KnoxViews
^For every dollar invested in Planned Parenthood it saves the government 6 dollars.

Manufacturing Results: MEP generates $32 in benefits for every $1 invested | Alliance for American Manufacturing
^Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) a government program that helps small business resulted in $32 of benefits for every dollar spent, creating 72,000 jobs alone in 2009, and saved 1.3 billion dollars.

Ezra Klein - How to increase the deficit by cutting government spending
^IRS spending on combating fraud, abuse and tax cheats produces $10 for every $1 spent in increased revenue. Meaning GOP proposed IRS cuts of 600million for the year would increase the deficit by 6 billion. Subsequently expanding the IRS budget by 600million would reduce the deficit by 6 billion.

House GOP Cuts To Nutrition Assistance Equal To One Week Of Bush Tax Cuts For Millionaires | ThinkProgress
^For every Government dollar spent on Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) it saves 1.77-3.13 dollars in health care costs.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...704db986c83a60d08525766a006d0293!OpenDocument
^The EPA's "energy Star" program, which labels and gives incentives to have energy efficient appliances/homes will save a net of 300 million yearly on utilities bills.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...619ff3a957bc4ccb85257752004918d9!OpenDocument
^In 2009 the EPA's "water sense" program saved consumers a net of 267 million on their water/sewage bills, and helped conserve 35 billion gallons of water.
--Water Sense is a voluntary program that labels products that are 20% more efficient.
^^Water Sense just added new shower heads to their program.

IndustryWeek : DOE 'Save Energy Now' Program Saves $1.5 Million for Three Companies
^The DOE "Save energy now" program has saved businesses over 800 million dollars. The voluntary program helps companies find energy savings.

http://budget.senate.gov/republican/analysis/2005/bb10-2005.pdf
http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~peha/DTV.pdf
^The mandated DTV change will also free up channels for public safety announcements.
^Government auctioning of new spectrums due to the mandated DTV change will bring in 10 billion dollars of new revenue every 4 years.
^Each $1 that is auctioned on new spectrums due to the government mandated DTV change will create over $10's in consumer benefits.
---Meaning that the mandated DTV change will create 40 billion dollars in consumer benefits every 4 years.

Environmental Health Perspectives: Childhood Lead Poisoning: Conservative Estimates of the Social and Economic Benefits of Lead Hazard Control
^Regulations banning and limiting lead in paint, toys, gasoline and other materials save provide net savings of 181-269 billion. Each dollar invested in lead paint hazard control/keeping lead out of products produces more than 17 dollars in return.

http://mainstreetalliance.org/wordp...of-CAA-literature-review-final-10-04-2010.pdf
^The Clean air act amendments of 1990 saved the country a net of 510 billion dollars over 20 years (or around 25 billion a year).
The act used regulations to reduce 5 pollutants by 41%
^The stratospheric Ozone protection act saved the country a net of 510 billion over 20 years (or around 25 billion a year).
The act reduced emissions of CFC's.
^Major new regulations starting in 1992-2002 are estimated to have saved the economy a total of 50 billion dollars in ten years. (or 15 billion a year).
1^Environmental regulations lead to the creation 1.3million jobs over ten years.
^Costs of regulations were exaggerated estimates for
Acid and rain cap and trade said that the costs would be between 2-4 billion when in reality it was 800 million, or 60-120% less.

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayR...STORY=/www/story/01-08-2009/0004951598&EDATE=
^The 4.3 billion increase in head start funding created 90,000 jobs each job created would cost 60,000 dollars, which is half of the cost that it usually takes to create a job.
^For every $1 invested in head start programs it creates $9's in economic benefits. These benefits include increased earnings, employment, and decreased welfare, education, and crime costs.

Study shows long-term benefits of preschool | eSchool News
^A Chicago study found that two years of pre-school costing a total of 18,000 results in 90,000 in benefits including reduced crime, increased earnings, and tax revenue, and decrease health costs.
Students who attended pre-school were 7% more likely to finish high school, 27% more likely to finish college, had 7% higher wages, 36% less likely to abuse drugs, and 40% less likely to have been
incarcerated for a crime

OSHA Regulations Increase Worker Safety and Jobs | Philadelphia EHS Consultant
OSHA's cost to business: $33 billion - Denver Business Journal
^Since the enactment of OSHA the number of work place injuries and illness has declined by 65%.
^The benefit cost ration for OSHA regulations is near 5-1, saving the economy a net of around 200 billion dollars each year.
^OSHA regulations help save 10,000 lives each year, and prevent 910,000 workplace injuries per year.

Pawlenty Stands Against Clean Air: "I Will Require Sunsetting of all Federal Regulations" | ThinkProgress
^New EPA regulations under Obama have a 4-1 to 22-1 benefit cost ration.
^Two new air quality rules made by the EPA will create 1.5 million jobs over the course of 5 years.

http://www.environmentnorthcarolina...ing-codes-to-save-homeowners-energy-and-money
^New building codes in Charlotte which will make homes 30% more efficient if adopted across the country would save homeowners 19 billion in reduced utility bills. The net savings for each home affected is $250 a year.

http://appalachiarising.org/press-and-bloggers/factsheet-on-mountaintop-removal-coal-mining/
Unemployment rates and Surface Mining in Appalachia | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
^1)A 2009 report estimates that mountaintop coal mining costs Appalachia five times more than the benefits it receives from mountaintop mining. 42 billion to 8 billion.
^2) residents in major mining locations had a 70% higher chance of having kidney disease a 64% increased chance for chronic pulmonary disease, and a 30% increase chance to have higher blood pressure.
^3) Local governments are propping up the coal industry, taking into account all revenue and expenditures the industry costs the local government of West Virginia 100 million a year and Kentucky 115 million a year.
^4) Local areas with mountaintop mining had an unemployment rate 44% higher than other local areas.

Senate Reaches Agreement On Food Safety Bill To Exempt Small Farms
The new food safety modernization act of 2010, expands the FDA by 1.4 billion, and gives the FDA and other food safety agencies more regulatory power. These two things will help save 3,00 lives and a 50 billion dollars each year.

Weatherization Assistance Program (WAP) Online: Michigan's State Legislature Supports the WAP
^WAP's yearly budget in 2007 was around 250million.
^Meaning after 5 years WAP will have saved more money than it cost to weatherize homes. 10 years later WAP will have saved a net of 270 million dollars.
^Over ten years WAP spending returns are 435% higher than the private market.
^Over the next ten years WAP spending returns are 916% higher than the private market.

Clean energy agreement provides jobs, savings for Northeast and Mid-Atlantic | Dale Bryk's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC
^The northeastern part of the United States set up a cap and trade system for Carbon emissions in 2007-09.
^The money made by the Carbon auctions is spent primarily on energy conservation, which for the region has a 3-1 benefit-cost ratio.
^Since the start of RGGI wholesale energy costs have actually decreased by significant percentages. For example some Marylanders are seeing their energy costs decrease by 20%
^The reason energy costs of decreased is because of the huge savings that occur through investment in energy efficiency, counter acting any cost increase.

Public Policy Forum
http://nieer.org/docs/?DocID=57
^In North Carolina a pre-school program which was specially tailored to children’s needs produced a 2.5- 4-1 benefit cost ratio.
^Another preschool program recorded benefit cost ratios above 6-1.
^While another preschool program recorded benefit cost ratios of 12-1.
^There are another half dozen studies that school high benefits from preschool .

 

[Oddball]

ThinkProgress, Huffypuffpost and MediaMatters aren't sources...They're propaganda.

Little wonder that a hack like you would try to pass them off as legit sources of information.

 

[Vidi]

Um considering that if Medicare was privatized it would cost 50% more while providing less services yes.
I realize that you are to stupid to realize that projected costs does not equal efficiency.
And I apologize that God gave you an IQ of 65.

According to who?

According to anyone who isn't a retard.

Neg me all you want but you're dead wrong.

The CBO study suggests that even in the context of basic insurance reforms, such as guaranteed issue and renewability, private plans’ administrative costs are higher than the administrative costs of public insurance. The experience of private plans within FEHBP carries the same conclusion. Under FEHBP, the administrative costs of Preferred Provider Organizations (PPOs) average 7 percent, not counting the costs of federal agencies to administer enrollment of employees. Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) participating in FEHBP have administrative costs of 10 to 12 percent.

Administrative costs - NYTimes.com

The idea that private companies do it cheaper and more efficiently is a myth.