49 Years ago today, JFK Assasination

[Unkotare]

Then make a case that President Kennedy would have escalated the Vietnam War.

Why? Empty speculation is your little kiddy game, not mine. There is what happened and there is nothing else. You just can't stop swooning and hero-worshipping, which is the epitome of childishness.

Thank you. So we have established that the only argument you have forwarded to refute my premise ("I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith") is childish emotes.

And yes, the escalation of the Vietnam War did happen, and so did everything that has followed. It will be plotted as the downward spiral, that will eventually end the American experiment.

You have a very confused outlook on things, bobbysoxer. Again, you have done NOTHING here but engage in hero-worship and meaningless speculation. You can't even pretend to have done anything else. Your anti-American doomsayer predictions are both childish AND offensive, and your insistence that a relatively insignificant (and corrupt) presidency - tragically cut short - is a turning point in history is just absurd. Look, you can masturbate to pictures of JFK all you want, but try to keep at least one foot in the real world.

 

[Unkotare]

I am among the shrinking group of citizens who remembers that horrible day. In my opinion, it was much worse than 9/11 because it was a turning point in American history for the worse. The impact on our nation's policies and the direction this country began heading has lead us to the situations we face today.

I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith.

That is about 1,000,000,000 miles beyond absurd.

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

You really don't mind being defined entirely by your partisanship like this? Seems limiting.

 

[Freemason9]

That is about 1,000,000,000 miles beyond absurd.

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

You really don't mind being defined entirely by your partisanship like this? Seems limiting.

I don't think this is a partisan suggestion, Unkotare. The political ramifications and apparent motives are fairly clear regarding the "elimination" of left-of-center leadership in the United States in the 1960's. It was constant and pervasive.

Let's face it--this is a "security" state, and it has been such for a very long time.

 

[Bfgrn]

Why? Empty speculation is your little kiddy game, not mine. There is what happened and there is nothing else. You just can't stop swooning and hero-worshipping, which is the epitome of childishness.

Thank you. So we have established that the only argument you have forwarded to refute my premise ("I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith") is childish emotes.

And yes, the escalation of the Vietnam War did happen, and so did everything that has followed. It will be plotted as the downward spiral, that will eventually end the American experiment.

You have a very confused outlook on things, bobbysoxer. Again, you have done NOTHING here but engage in hero-worship and meaningless speculation. You can't even pretend to have done anything else. Your anti-American doomsayer predictions are both childish AND offensive, and your insistence that a relatively insignificant (and corrupt) presidency - tragically cut short - is a turning point in history is just absurd. Look, you can masturbate to pictures of JFK all you want, but try to keep at least one foot in the real world.

You really are one ignorant fuck. Have you any clue what prompted Ike's dire warning about the military/industrial complex in his farewell speech? Do you even know about the speech pea brain??

Eisenhower had planned on leaving office with his most historic achievement being Détente with the Soviet Union. But the CIA undermined the President of the United States weeks before a summit conference with Khrushchev. The CIA illegally launched a U-2 flight over the Soviet Union that was shot down on May Day 1960. The pilot was wearing a US Air Force flight suit carrying his Air Force ID, which is total violation of U-2 flight protocol. The plane was also outfitted with a camera that was not the one routinely used by the CIA spy U-2's. It was a lower resolution camera that forced Gary Powers to fly 15,000 feet lower and more likely to be detected. And whoever swapped cameras knew that the usual one was top secret.

Ike was so incensed that he told the American people in so many words that the military/industrial complex and the CIA were a dire threat to this nation.

Kennedy found that out very early in his administration, with the Bay of Pigs. The CIA lied to the President of the United States and tried to lure us into a war.

We now know—from the CIA's internal history of the Bay of Pigs, which was declassified in 2005—that agency officials realized their motley crew of invaders had no chance of victory unless they were reinforced by the U.S. military. But Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell, the top CIA officials, never disclosed this to J.F.K. They clearly thought the young President would cave in the heat of battle, that he would be forced to send in the Marines and Air Force to rescue the beleaguered exiles brigade after it was pinned down on the beaches by Castro's forces. But Kennedy—who was concerned about aggravating the U.S. image in Latin America as a Yanqui bully and also feared a Soviet countermove against West Berlin—had warned agency officials that he would not fully intervene. As the invasion quickly bogged down at the swampy landing site, J.F.K. stunned Dulles and Bissell by standing his ground and refusing to escalate the assault.

Read more: Warrior For Peace - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

So just keep emoting you fucking moron. You don't know shit, you are a pea brain.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

You really don't mind being defined entirely by your partisanship like this? Seems limiting.

I don't think this is a partisan suggestion, Unkotare. The political ramifications and apparent motives are fairly clear regarding the "elimination" of left-of-center leadership in the United States in the 1960's. It was constant and pervasive.

Let's face it--this is a "security" state, and it has been such for a very long time.

"Let's face it" = "You gotta agree with me! You just gotta!"

 

[Unkotare]

You really are one ignorant fuck. Have you any clue what prompted Ike's dire warning about the military/industrial complex in his farewell speech? Do you even know about the speech pea brain??

Gosh, no, I ain't never hearda that...



You are a weepy little lefty cartoon character. You might have more fun if you take you conspiracy theories, empty speculation, and swooning hero-worhsip over to the Conspiracy Forum where it really belongs.

 

[Bfgrn]

You really are one ignorant fuck. Have you any clue what prompted Ike's dire warning about the military/industrial complex in his farewell speech? Do you even know about the speech pea brain??

Gosh, no, I ain't never hearda that...



You are a weepy little lefty cartoon character. You might have more fun if you take you conspiracy theories, empty speculation, and swooning hero-worhsip over to the Conspiracy Forum where it really belongs.

Your little ignorant rant proves you have no clue what Eisenhower was warning us about. It was no joke or conspiracy theory.

The incident so enraged and incensed Ike that it prompted him to make the most provocative speech that any President had ever made. It was a thinly veiled damning of his own country...his final farewell address where he warned:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

That same mission for peace with the Soviet Union, an order to withdraw 1,000 military personnel from Vietnam by the end of 1963, plans to end our military involvement in Vietnam after securing a second term and secret talks to normalize relations with Cuba cost Ike's successor, John F. Kennedy his life.

 

[Unkotare]

You really are one ignorant fuck. Have you any clue what prompted Ike's dire warning about the military/industrial complex in his farewell speech? Do you even know about the speech pea brain??

Gosh, no, I ain't never hearda that...



You are a weepy little lefty cartoon character. You might have more fun if you take you conspiracy theories, empty speculation, and swooning hero-worhsip over to the Conspiracy Forum where it really belongs.

Your little ignorant rant proves you have no clue what Eisenhower was warning us about. .

Unreflected bias and a weak-minded addiction to conspiracy theories does not a political scientist make, champ. Don't mistake your oh-so-deeply-held emotions for a "clue."

 

[Unkotare]

That same mission for peace with the Soviet Union, an order to withdraw 1,000 military personnel from Vietnam by the end of 1963, plans to end our military involvement in Vietnam after securing a second term and secret talks to normalize relations with Cuba cost Ike's successor, John F. Kennedy his life.

Conspiracy Forum - thataway. If you hurry they may give you a free lollipop!

 

[Bfgrn]

The Kennedy Assassination: Was There a Conspiracy?
By David Talbot & Vincent BugliosiThursday, June 21, 2007

Bobby suspected his brother's assassination emerged from the plotting by Cuban exiles, the Mafia and the CIA to kill Castro. From left, CIA Director John McCone, Castro, FBI Director Hoover, who first informed Bobby of J.F.K.'s death, and New Orleans mobster Carlos Marcello. At right, Oswald.

Yes.
On Friday, Nov. 22, 1963, Robert F. Kennedy—J.F.K.'s younger brother, Attorney General and devoted watchman—was eating lunch at Hickory Hill, his Virginia home, when he got the news from Dallas. It was his archenemy, FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover, of all people, who phoned to tell him. "The President's been shot," Hoover curtly said. Bobby later recalled, "I think he told me with pleasure."

For the rest of the day and night, Bobby Kennedy would wrestle with his howling grief while using whatever power was still left him to figure out what really happened in Dallas—before the new Administration settled firmly into place under the command of another political enemy, Lyndon Johnson. While the Attorney General's aides summoned federal Marshals to surround R.F.K.'s estate (they no longer trusted the Secret Service or the FBI)—uncertain of whether the President's brother would be the next target—Bobby feverishly gathered information. He worked the phones at Hickory Hill, talking to people who had been in the presidential motorcade; he conferred with a succession of government officials and aides while waiting for Air Force One to return with the body of his brother; he accompanied his brother's remains to the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital, where he took steps to take control of medical evidence, including the President's brain; and he stayed coiled and awake in the White House until early the next morning. Lit up with the clarity of shock, the electricity of adrenaline, he constructed the outlines of the crime. Bobby Kennedy would become America's first J.F.K. assassination-conspiracy theorist.

The President's brother quickly concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin, had not acted alone. And Bobby immediately suspected the CIA's secret war on Fidel Castro as the source of the plot. At his home that Friday afternoon, Bobby confronted CIA Director John McCone, asking him point-blank whether the agency had killed J.F.K. (McCone denied it.) Later, R.F.K. ordered aides to explore a possible Mafia connection to the crime. And in a revealing phone conversation with Harry Ruiz-Williams, a trusted friend in the anti-Castro movement, Kennedy said bluntly, "One of your guys did it." Though the CIA and the FBI were already working strenuously to portray Oswald as a communist agent, Bobby Kennedy rejected this view. Instead, he concluded Oswald was a member of the shadowy operation that was seeking to overthrow Castro.

Bobby knew that a dark alliance—the CIA, the Mafia and militant Cuban exiles—had formed to assassinate Castro and force a regime change in Havana. That's because President Kennedy had given his brother the Cuban portfolio after the CIA's Bay of Pigs fiasco. But Bobby, who would begin some days by dropping by the CIA's headquarters in Langley, Va., on his way to the Justice Department, never managed to get fully in control of the agency's sprawling, covert war on Castro. Now, he suspected, this underground world—where J.F.K. was despised for betraying the anti-Castro cause—had spawned his brother's assassination.

As Kennedy slowly emerged from his torment over Dallas and resumed an active role in public life—running for U.S. Senator from New York in 1964 and then President in 1968—he secretly investigated his brother's assassination. He traveled to Mexico City, where he gathered information about Oswald's mysterious trip there before Dallas. He met with conspiracy researcher Penn Jones Jr., a crusading Texas newspaperman, in his Senate office. He returned to the Justice Department with his ace investigator Walter Sheridan to paw through old files. He dispatched trusted associates to New Orleans to report to him on prosecutor Jim Garrison's controversial reopening of the case. Kennedy told confidants that he himself would reopen the investigation into the assassination if he won the presidency, believing it would take the full powers of the office to do so. As Kennedy adviser Arthur Schlesinger Jr. once observed, no one of his era knew more than Bobby about "the underground streams through which so much of the actuality of American power darkly coursed: the FBI, CIA, the racketeering unions and the Mob." But when it came to his brother's murder, Bobby never got a chance to prove his case.


Read more: The Kennedy Assassination: Was There a Conspiracy? - The Lessons of J.F.K. - TIME

 

[jan]

I was six years old when JFK was assassinated. A lifetime ago...but the decade of assassinations also sort of defined our lifetimes as well. I don't know that any child growing up during those times ever really had a true sense of internal comfort or stability. How could they? It was a crazy time when violence and Vietnam reigned. It seemed as if every year brought more assassinations.

How can one not look back and "what if" the situation?