49 Years ago today, JFK Assasination

[MisterBeale]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRhCC-6Wdp8]President Reagan's remarks at JFK Library Fundraiser - 6/24/85 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Unkotare]

How about this. Without a coup d'état on November 22, 1963, there are two wars that never happen (Vietnam and drugs), 60,000 young Americans are alive and able to live out their dreams, no conservative era materializes...no Nixon, no Reagan, no massive debt.

You don't really expect anyone to take your swooning bobby-soxer speculations seriously, do you? Playing 'what if' does not impact reality in any way, Dr. Brown.

The only thing I don't expect is for unintelligent people to be able to engage in intelligent thought.

And you prove your disability in this regard all the time.

 

[Bfgrn]

You don't really expect anyone to take your swooning bobby-soxer speculations seriously, do you? Playing 'what if' does not impact reality in any way, Dr. Brown.

The only thing I don't expect is for unintelligent people to be able to engage in intelligent thought.

And you prove your disability in this regard all the time.

So your only avenue is the one you've chosen. You are totally unable to discuss the matter in anything but a childish manner.

I am supremely confident you will continue to prove me right.

 

[Bfgrn]

The 1990s saw the gaps in the declassified record on Vietnam filled in—with spring 1963 plans for the complete withdrawal of U.S. forces. An initial 1000 man pullout (of the approximately 17,000 stationed in Vietnam at that time) was initiated in October 1963, though it was diluted and rendered meaningless in the aftermath of Kennedy's death. The longer-range plans called for complete withdrawal of U. S. forces and a "Vietnamization" of the war, scheduled to happen largely after the 1964 elections.

The debate over whether withdrawal plans were underway in 1963 is now settled. What remains contentious is the "what if" scenario. What would Kennedy have done if he lived, given the worsening situation in Vietnam after the coup which resulted in the assassination of Vietnamese President Diem?

At the core of the debate is this question: Did President Kennedy really believe the rosy picture of the war effort being conveyed by his military advisors. Or was he onto the game, and instead couching his withdrawal plans in the language of optimism being fed to the White House?

The landmark book JFK and Vietnam asserted the latter, that Kennedy knew he was being deceived and played a deception game of his own, using the military's own rosy analysis as a justification for withdrawal. Newman's analysis, with its dark implications regarding JFK's murder, has been attacked from both mainstream sources and even those on the left. No less than Noam Chomsky devoted an entire book to disputing the thesis.

But declassifications since Newman's 1992 book have only served to buttress the thesis that the Vietnam withdrawal, kept under wraps to avoid a pre-election attack from the right, was Kennedy's plan regardless of the war's success. New releases have also brought into focus the chilling visions of the militarists of that era—four Presidents were advised to use nuclear weapons in Indochina. A recent book by David Kaiser, American Tragedy, shows a military hell bent on war in Asia.

The Vietnam war, instead of ending before it began in earnest, bloomed in the mid-1960s into a nightmare conflict that consumed 58,000 American lives and an unknown number of Vietnamese in the millions. Within America, the divide over the war existed not only in the streets but also within the halls of power, where many decided that the cost was too high.

The divide over foreign policy which smoldered during Kennedy's Presidency was not limited to Vietnam. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, for instance, military leaders were adamant that the missiles be taken out and Cuba invaded. They were joined in their advocacy by other prominent men of the day, including former Secretary of State Dean Acheson and future Warren Commissioner Richard Russell. It was not learned until a few years ago that tactical nuclear missiles were also present on the island, and Soviet commanders had standing orders allowing their use in defending an invasion of Cuba. The less drastic blockade option which was chosen, vigorously opposed by the hawks, probably averted World War III.

One of the questions posed by the essays on this website is whether the assassination of President Kennedy was rooted in this deep foreign policy divide. Such questions are by their nature speculative and circumstantial. Nonetheless, a close reading of the history of the period, particularly in the light of long-delayed declassifications, makes that chilling possibility seem all too likely.

History Matters - Vietnam Withdrawal Plans

 

[Unkotare]

The only thing I don't expect is for unintelligent people to be able to engage in intelligent thought.

And you prove your disability in this regard all the time.

So your only avenue is the one you've chosen. You are totally unable to discuss the matter in anything but a childish manner.

Are you kidding? Have you seen your comments on the matter? It doesn't get much more childish than that.

 

[Bfgrn]

And you prove your disability in this regard all the time.

So your only avenue is the one you've chosen. You are totally unable to discuss the matter in anything but a childish manner.

Are you kidding? Have you seen your comments on the matter? It doesn't get much more childish than that.

My comments were very responsible. It was YOU who chimed in with a childish 'emote', no facts, no hypothesis, no counter argument. Just childish insults.

 

[Unkotare]

So your only avenue is the one you've chosen. You are totally unable to discuss the matter in anything but a childish manner.

Are you kidding? Have you seen your comments on the matter? It doesn't get much more childish than that.

My comments were very responsible. It was YOU who chimed in with a childish 'emote', no facts, no hypothesis, no counter argument. Just childish insults.

Your comments were nothing but fawing hero-worshipping and empty speculation. Talk about childish...

 

[Old Rocks]

I was just past 20 years old when Kennedy was asassinated. I remember people standing in line in stores, silent, with tears running down their faces. Whatever his personal failings, Kennedy gave us hope in the future, and saw a future filled with challenges to be met with exuberance and skill.

As for the assasination itself. I simply don't know enough to assign blame, or even have a theory about who was behind the act. I do know it was not a round from an Italian Carcano that blew the President's head apart. That rifle shoots a round at 2400 ft/sec. The type of damage done was more typical of a 220 Swift or a 25-06.

Much died and changed that day. And our nation became poorer for that act.

 

[whitehall]

Oswald was a traitor who renounced his Country but for some reason he was welcomed back to the US with his Russian wife. The CIA apparently had him under surveillance or maybe it was the FBI but Oswald turned up in a book depository with a rifle. Like all government commissions which are charged with investigating the government the Warren commission covered the government's ass rather than searching for the truth.

 

[Bfgrn]

Are you kidding? Have you seen your comments on the matter? It doesn't get much more childish than that.

My comments were very responsible. It was YOU who chimed in with a childish 'emote', no facts, no hypothesis, no counter argument. Just childish insults.

Your comments were nothing but fawing hero-worshipping and empty speculation. Talk about childish...

My comments are based on information that is now public domain. Declassified records, statements by cabinet members like his Secretary of Defense, his Ambassador to India, aides who were in the President's inner circle and other credible sources.

Your comments are empty emotes.

 

[Unkotare]

Your comments are empty emotes.

You've got it backwards, Bobbysoxer.

 

[Bfgrn]

Your comments are empty emotes.

You've got it backwards, Bobbysoxer.

Then make a case that President Kennedy would have escalated the Vietnam War. See if your tiny little pea brain can create paragraphs instead of short emotes that don't even take up two lines of text.

 

[Unkotare]

Your comments are empty emotes.

You've got it backwards, Bobbysoxer.

Then make a case that President Kennedy would have escalated the Vietnam War.

Why? Empty speculation is your little kiddy game, not mine. There is what happened and there is nothing else. You just can't stop swooning and hero-worshipping, which is the epitome of childishness.

 

[Bfgrn]

You've got it backwards, Bobbysoxer.

Then make a case that President Kennedy would have escalated the Vietnam War.

Why? Empty speculation is your little kiddy game, not mine. There is what happened and there is nothing else. You just can't stop swooning and hero-worshipping, which is the epitome of childishness.

Thank you. So we have established that the only argument you have forwarded to refute my premise ("I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith") is childish emotes.

And yes, the escalation of the Vietnam War did happen, and so did everything that has followed. It will be plotted as the downward spiral, that will eventually end the American experiment.

 

[Freemason9]

May JFK rest in peace!

I am among the shrinking group of citizens who remembers that horrible day. In my opinion, it was much worse than 9/11 because it was a turning point in American history for the worse. The impact on our nation's policies and the direction this country began heading has lead us to the situations we face today.

I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith.

That is about 1,000,000,000 miles beyond absurd.

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I am among the shrinking group of citizens who remembers that horrible day. In my opinion, it was much worse than 9/11 because it was a turning point in American history for the worse. The impact on our nation's policies and the direction this country began heading has lead us to the situations we face today.

I have come to believe that when historians in the distant future record the rise and fall of the American experiment, November 22, 1963 will be the zenith.

That is about 1,000,000,000 miles beyond absurd.

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

To be led by the Marine who wrote "War is a Racket"...

 

[Bfgrn]

That is about 1,000,000,000 miles beyond absurd.

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

To be led by the Marine who wrote "War is a Racket"...

You mean the General who exposed the plot and testified before Congress?

 

[Trajan]

talk about a guy who had to grow into the job, he was amazingly foolish and naive on one hand then resolute on the other. He was cut short of a political legacy but he knew what America was about and believed in her, he was a patriot. RIP Jack.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I don't see any absurdity at all. One can look at the significant American political assassinations of the 1960's as a right wing coup against social democracy; it succeeded, and the nation has been veering into the ditch on the right side of the road ever since.

Political assassinations are hardly anything new. The right wing had planned a military coup in the 1930s to overthrow Roosevelt.

To be led by the Marine who wrote "War is a Racket"...

You mean the General who exposed the plot and testified before Congress?

Major General Smedley Butler was his name, and he was a patriot of the highest order. At the time he was the most highly decorated soldier in our history, and his speech 'War is a Racket' should be REQUIRED listening for ANYONE who thinks they know ANYTHING about the MIC.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0]War is a Racket by Smedley Butler - YouTube[/ame]

ETA: Obviously this is a re-creation...

 

[Bfgrn]

To be led by the Marine who wrote "War is a Racket"...

You mean the General who exposed the plot and testified before Congress?

Major General Smedley Butler was his name, and he was a patriot of the highest order. At the time he was the most highly decorated soldier in our history, and his speech 'War is a Racket' should be REQUIRED listening for ANYONE who thinks they know ANYTHING about the MIC.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0]War is a Racket by Smedley Butler - YouTube[/ame]

ETA: Obviously this is a re-creation...

There are a number of Generals we should listen to.

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

How far can you go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency.
General Douglas MacArthur

Our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in...war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear.
General Douglas MacArthur

War: A wretched debasement of all the pretenses of civilization.
General Omar N. Bradley

There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.
General Smedley Butler

It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood...War is hell.
General William Tecumseh Sherman