47 vertical support columns in core of each Twin Tower from bedrock to top floor

[Gamolon]

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

no according to NIST if the fire proofing remained intact the building would of remained standing....oh wait a minute...did he mean standing for one sec.. one minute..all of eternity ??..

Right. This PROVES your claim that the towers collapsed from the "impact" as being wrong.

The "impact" caused damage to the towers. The ensuing fires (along with the damage caused by the impact) weakened the towers to a point of collapse.

If it was the impact alone that made the towers collapse, then they would have fallen the instant the towers were struck.

Even Leslie Robertson himself states that the towers survived the impact and he is FAR more educated in the field of structural engineering than you are.

 

[Gamolon]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

I suppose it COULDN'T have been the perimeter columns falling away from the tower, streaming dust/debris behind it right? It HAD to be explosives that propelled it "rocket-like"...

 

[Gamolon]

If they didn't survive the impact, why would they still have remained standing? The impact is over once the planes hit.

Well, according to eots' and creativedreams' understanding of reality, "impact" means an event that can last 1 minute, 2 hours, or days.

no according to NIST if the fire proofing remained intact the building would of remained standing....oh wait a minute...did he mean standing for one sec.. one minute..all of eternity ??..

Hey eots. GO back and read what you just posted. REAL SLOW.

Are you saying that NIST is implying the insulation, if it stayed intact, would have protected the towers from a jet impact?



Tell me something genius. When an engineer designs something to withstand the force of an impact, will his calculations include considerations for possible fires that may be a result of the impact? When engineers design crumple zones for cars to withstand an impact, do they add design parameters for possible fires to the calculations?

I dare you to ask any engineer that when asked to design something to withstand an impact, if he would include calculations for a possible fire.

The fact is, the impact and the resultant fires, are two different entities and are designed for in two different ways. Hence this quote from Robertson:

To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.

You have a much to learn about engineering and design and that apparent lack of knowledge about either makes you look like a fool every time you post.

The bottom line is, the towers did withstand the force of the jet impacts. Let me repeat that. The towers did not collapse from the FORCE of the IMPACTS of the jets.

Get it yet?

 

[Fizz]

These two new videos show absolute proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings.

This footage came right from the history channel itself....

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns

YouTube- South Tower Smoking Guns (Follow-up)

I suppose it COULDN'T have been the perimeter columns falling away from the tower, streaming dust/debris behind it right? It HAD to be explosives that propelled it "rocket-like"...

i love how all these moronic twoofers that are supposedly seeking "truth" immediately jump to conclusions and label things as "smoking gun" and "indisputable" whenever they encounter something they feel supports their preconceived conclusions.

how about using logic for a second??

you have a building collapsing from the top down... when all the energy from the collapsing material above hits the still standing structure below what exactly do they expect the material and energy to do? just sit there balanced on if the still standing structure and defy all laws of physics?

what a bunch of fucking morons!!!

 

[Gamolon]

the only role the impact played according to NIST is initiating the fires and dislodging the fire proofing

So now you're resorting to lies in order to make your claims look like the truth? How come I can pull quotes from NIST's documents that say you are a liar for making that claim?

In WTC 1, the aircraft impact caused damage to the north and south walls, floors, some core columns, and insulation.

and...

In WTC 2, the aircraft impact caused damage to the south and north exterior walls, floors, and columns in the southeast corner of the core.

That's pretty low. Even for you.

 

[Fizz]

the only role the impact played according to NIST is initiating the fires and dislodging the fire proofing

So now you're resorting to lies in order to make your claims look like the truth? How come I can pull quotes from NIST's documents that say you are a liar for making that claim?

In WTC 1, the aircraft impact caused damage to the north and south walls, floors, some core columns, and insulation.

and...

In WTC 2, the aircraft impact caused damage to the south and north exterior walls, floors, and columns in the southeast corner of the core.

That's pretty low. Even for you.

it also talks about vertical loads getting shifted to the remaining columns, damage to the core (steel core, by the way) and how the shifted weight affected the collapse sequence.

unfortunately the pdf file is copy protected and i cant cut and paste.

 

[Gamolon]

Kerry Lewis McCarthyThe core columns were fully welded yet none were longer than 40 ft (max trucking length).

No columns more that 40'? Are you serious?

Look at the columns in this next photo. Look at all the burn marks, slag, and rough edges from the thermite/explosives...

Oh wait...

 

[rightwinger]

ok. you start. show evidence of a cut column or an explosive charge on 9/11.

A cut column?

To verify the truthers theory, you would need 37 cut columns on 100 floors......thats the only way to fall at "freefall speeds"

That makes 3700 cuts syncronized within seconds to create the desired effect

 

[Christophera]

ok. you start. show evidence of a cut column or an explosive charge on 9/11.

Examine the edges of the very thick walled box column in the below photo. No way that is a salvage cut, way too uniform. Examine that uniform bevel. This is what linear shape charges do. So, no matter how they got there, this is what is seen.

A cut column?

To verify the truthers theory, you would need 37 cut columns on 100 floors......thats the only way to fall at "freefall speeds"

That makes 3700 cuts syncronized within seconds to create the desired effect

The above fact is why there were no steel core columns in the core area. The explosive sheared column above is one of the 24 that surrounded the concrete core. Here is the east WTC 1 core wall falling into the EMPTY core area on 9-11. The column in the background is on the other side and outside the core area.

Steel seen at construction in the core area is elevator guide rail support steel as can be deduced by the butt plates used to connect sections on the tops below. Such plates, left and right of the central crane are way too weak to use for "core columns".

Concrete can be fractured instantly to fall freely by a small amount of properly placed high explosives, steel cannot.

 

[Gamolon]

ok. you start. show evidence of a cut column or an explosive charge on 9/11.

Examine the edges of the very thick walled box column in the below photo. No way that is a salvage cut, way too uniform. Examine that uniform bevel. This is what linear shape charges do. So, no matter how they got there, this is what is seen.

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

 

[Gamolon]

More proof that Chris is full of shit.

Look at the area I circled in red on the column. See the faint outline of a rounded triangle shape? That's the end of the groove weld with the weld material still there.

Further proof is this next image of a drawing detail that shows what a groove weld looks like with weld material in it. Look at the detail in the middle of the three named "OTHER-SIDE U-GROOVE WELDING SYMBOL".

The weld material looks exactly the same as the shape on the column circled in red. A triangle with rounded corners.

Shape charges created those ends?!

 

[Christophera]

Examine the edges of the very thick walled box column in the below photo. No way that is a salvage cut, way too uniform. Examine that uniform bevel. This is what linear shape charges do. So, no matter how they got there, this is what is seen.

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

BTW, there are images from GZ of broken welds. Typically weldment will transfer unequally between the 2 sections. Those breaks signify elevator guide rails support steel.

The interior box columns, true full length 100% welded columns, outside the concrete core were the largest of all the vertical steel on the project.

That top photo is one of those, below the 43rd floor where maximum strength was required.

 

[Fizz]

Examine the edges of the very thick walled box column in the below photo. No way that is a salvage cut, way too uniform. Examine that uniform bevel. This is what linear shape charges do. So, no matter how they got there, this is what is seen.

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

BTW, there are images from GZ of broken welds. Typically weldment will transfer unequally between the 2 sections. Those breaks signify elevator guide rails support steel.

The interior box columns, true full length 100% welded columns, outside the concrete core were the largest of all the vertical steel on the project.

That top photo is one of those, below the 43rd floor where maximum strength was required.

you dumb moron..... the problem with your logic is that its YOURS. you are one of the most fucked up lunatics on here. you wouldnt know logic if someone shoved it your ass and exploded it.

 

[Christophera]

gumjobn won't answer 'cause he's busted as a wanna'be disinfo and reality is the opposite of what you write.

 

[Gamolon]

BTW, there are images from GZ of broken welds. Typically weldment will transfer unequally between the 2 sections. Those breaks signify elevator guide rails support steel.

I thought the elevator guide rail support steel was joined by "butt plates"????

What a fucking moron!!! You just admitted that the guide rail support steel was welded together!

 

[Gamolon]

Examine the edges of the very thick walled box column in the below photo. No way that is a salvage cut, way too uniform. Examine that uniform bevel. This is what linear shape charges do. So, no matter how they got there, this is what is seen.

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

From what "you've seen"? Are we supposed to believe what you say without any proof? Given the amount of lies, contradictions, incorrect photo analysis, and admitted mistakes you've made/told, I don't think ANYONE can take your word for it. Your word means nothing at this point. Provide a photo of a metal plate that was cut with a shape charge and show us the "quarter round" groove that it left behind, halfway through the plate.

You're full of shit.

 

[Christophera]

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

From what "you've seen"? Are we supposed to believe what you say without any proof?

The fact that no one can explain how all the supposed steel core columns were cut is a bigger issue.

I've just shown a cut in one of the largest columns surrounding the core. It is impossibly uniform for any cutting method in those conditions except a specialized cutting charge.

And I've shown an empty core area with each and every image showing http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1spirecorewall.jpg

 

[Christophera]

Wow. I grow tired of proving you wrong. See the column edge above? It's a quarter circle shape?

Here's another photo of the end of a column. Notice the end circled in red. Same quarter circle shape.

Now here's a drawing of welds. Notice the shape of the groove weld in the upper right corner of the drawing? Quarter circle perhaps?

All these pictures show is where the column joints snapped at the welds. Are you trying to say that a shape charge creates a quarter circle indent only halfway through the steel?

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

From what "you've seen"? Are we supposed to believe what you say without any proof?

The fact that no one can explain how all the supposed steel core columns were cut is a bigger issue.

I've just shown a cut in one of the largest columns surrounding the core. It is impossibly uniform for any cutting method in those conditions except a specialized cutting charge.

And I've shown an empty core area with each and every image showing concrete surrounding the empty core area.

 

[Gamolon]

One big problem with everything you state photoshopping agent gumjobn.

You assume that a broken weld would always be the same. So your point absolutely cannot be correct or applicable in dismissing the information.

BTW, the top image is an interior box column whereas the stacked box columns image might be elevator guide rail support steel. The proportionate thickness of the 2 changes the beveling of cutting charges, and yes, from what I've seen, linear shape charges do leave a uniform bevel and they are grooved, sharply and deeply, with uniformity.

From what "you've seen"? Are we supposed to believe what you say without any proof?

The fact that no one can explain how all the supposed steel core columns were cut is a bigger issue.

I've just shown a cut in one of the largest columns surrounding the core. It is impossibly uniform for any cutting method in those conditions except a specialized cutting charge.

And I've shown an empty core area with each and every image showing concrete surrounding the empty core area.

The fact is, you just admitted that the "elevator guide rail support steel" was welded.

 

[Christophera]

From what "you've seen"? Are we supposed to believe what you say without any proof?

The fact that no one can explain how all the supposed steel core columns were cut is a bigger issue.

I've just shown a cut in one of the largest columns surrounding the core. It is impossibly uniform for any cutting method in those conditions except a specialized cutting charge.

And I've shown an empty core area with each and every image showing concrete surrounding the empty core area.

The fact is, you just admitted that the "elevator guide rail support steel" was welded.

The bigger fact is that you cannot show I ever said they were not welded. I've said that sometimes butt plates are used instead of a weld so the elevator guide rail support can be shifted.

The biggest fact is you have absolutely no independently verified evidence of steel core columns inthe core area AND not one image from 9-11 showing anything except for an empty core.

AND, the fact that this video unmistakably shows a concrete wall falling into the core area.