3 Simple Arguments Against the #MeToo Movement

[Aba Incieni]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Maybe you haven't heard about identity politics. All white people are responsible for owning slaves.

 

[EvilWhiteMale]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

What if any one of those women accusing him of all types of "abuse" had stepped forward when it happened? How many other women would have been spared? Those women who maintained their silence are as guilty of perpetuating Weinstein's predation as any man might be, more so perhaps because the women had knowledge whereas not all men might have known the breadth of the problem. What job is worth selling yourself for, as well as exposing other women as victims to the same crimes?

 

[BULLDOG]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

 

[EvilWhiteMale]

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

I'm sorry but I think you're being naive. You do understand that many of the women Weinstein 'abused' (let's remember he hasn't been convicted of anything yet and we believe in innocence until proven guilty in this country) were engaging in transactional sexual encounters were they were promised a part in a movie and gave up sex on that basis. You're saying none of these could have come forward? None at all? I think you're stepping into wilful ignorance territory here...

 

[gallantwarrior]

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

If anyone had an opportunity to expose such behavior who better than the victims. But, hell, if they had stepped up and filed charges they might have had to find a different line of work. God forbid just one, just one, of these women (victims) had flipped old Harvey the bird and told him to shove his job. How many other aspiring actresses might have been spared their victimhood? Or is it to be preferred that these women sit around on set and bemoan that fact that some man had failed to come to their aid?

 

[BULLDOG]

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

I'm sorry but I think you're being naive. You do understand that many of the women Weinstein 'abused' (let's remember he hasn't been convicted of anything yet and we believe in innocence until proven guilty in this country) were engaging in transactional sexual encounters were they were promised a part in a movie and gave up sex on that basis. You're saying none of these could have come forward? None at all? I think you're stepping into wilful ignorance territory here...

One of us is willfully ignorant.

 

[MordechaiGoodbud]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

 

[EvilWhiteMale]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

Woah, woah, woah. Pro-rape? What the hell? I've reported your post because that is just ridiculous and uncalled-for. I say numbers times in my video, including right at the very start that 'sexual violence is morally evil and nobody on either side of the argument is sticking up for rapists'. I hoped we could have a rational discussion about MeToo without resorting to personal attacks like this, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[centerleftFL]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

So do we have another group of MEN (and a poster?) telling women--you ARE WRONG!

Jesus fucking christ--you just don't get it!

 

[centerleftFL]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

YEP!! WOMEN are responsible for being BEATEN too. Batterers tell women every hour of every day all around the country, 'it's THEIR OWN fault!! A whole other group of 'silly' #METOO's. But I guess that's another thread, right??

 

[OldLady]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

I dunno. I just got targeted in a thread here yesterday--classic inappropriate sexual remarks to a female, out of the blue-- the majority of women don't appreciate it at all.

 

[gtopa1]

I find it appalling that the #metoo movement has now gone ballistic on ANY aspect of legitimate sexual attraction between men and women. Men don't need to be TAUGHT that using a woman as a sex object or coercing her with intimidation regarding their job IS WRONG. Period; END OF ARGUMENT. Blokes who do that are SCUM!!! In the old days the woman's brothers or dads would beat the living shit out of them...and rightly so. The Weinsteins or the leading hand; makes NO difference. They KNOW it is wrong and I frankly don't mind seeing the likes of them in Court.

What is "wrong" but not criminal is when women use sex as a tool to get what they want, and that is where the #metoo mob are confused. Bonking a "powerful" guy because they're besotted by power or want a part in a commercial is still morally wrong but not illegal. I heard one #metoo whore say that she gave Weinstein "permission to seduce her"....why??? That is consent!! It diminishes those who are actually sexually assaulted or otherwise illegally violated.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

I dunno. I just got targeted in a thread here yesterday--classic inappropriate sexual remarks to a female, out of the blue-- the majority of women don't appreciate it at all.

Wolf whistling isn't in the same league as calling out for sheilas to ...er...show their privates or get bonked. It is a mistake to link them imo. If one doesn't like being wolf whistled then stay away from Democrats and Union building sites.

"but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes" ..................NO!! All CITIZENS have an obligation to enact and enforce LAWS that bring perpetrators of those crimes to Justice and ensure that everyone knows that the Law will get them. It is also every Citizen's duty to educate themselves about it.

Greg

 

[OldLady]

Amazing...men are such victims, aren't they?

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

Yes,all men have a moral responsibility to help stop harassment. It's the only moral thing to do. You do know what morality is, don't you?

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

I'm sorry but I think you're being naive. You do understand that many of the women Weinstein 'abused' (let's remember he hasn't been convicted of anything yet and we believe in innocence until proven guilty in this country) were engaging in transactional sexual encounters were they were promised a part in a movie and gave up sex on that basis. You're saying none of these could have come forward? None at all? I think you're stepping into wilful ignorance territory here...

Didn't he tell them that they would never work again if they said anything?
He was powerful enough to make that happen. Would you have come forward, changed your career over a yuck like that?

 

[OldLady]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

I dunno. I just got targeted in a thread here yesterday--classic inappropriate sexual remarks to a female, out of the blue-- the majority of women don't appreciate it at all.

Wolf whistling isn't in the same league as calling out for sheilas to ...er...show their privates or get bonked. It is a mistake to link them imo. If one doesn't like being wolf whistled then stay away from Democrats and Union building sites.

"but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes" ..................NO!! All CITIZENS have an obligation to enact and enforce LAWS that bring perpetrators of those crimes to Justice and ensure that everyone knows that the Law will get them. It is also every Citizen's duty to educate themselves about it.

Greg

It's been a real long time since I got wolf whistled at. LOL That's not a crime, right?

In this particular area, laws are important, but I think it's true that men have an obligation to teach their sons what's right, speak up if a buddy is being a jerk. Isn't that what they mean?

 

[gtopa1]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

Big surprise. Another pro-rape Neanderthal on this message board.

Criticizing them for Victimhood?

Yeah, women who have been raped ARE victims. A white male who feels insulted by the metoo movement is not a victim. You are the 1 who is playing the victimhood card.

YEP!! WOMEN are responsible for being BEATEN too. Batterers tell women every hour of every day all around the country, 'it's THEIR OWN fault!! A whole other group of 'silly' #METOO's. But I guess that's another thread, right??

Bullshit!! You are right on ONE point; batterers are assholes who need to be jailed. You are WRONG to conflate those who point out a weakness with a groupthink mob with batterers. You LOST the argument.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

No. If you watched my video, you'd know that I disagree with the victimhood ideology of the left. What I'm saying is that there's no statistical grounds for a moral panic. Sexual violence has declined 60% from 1995-2010.

I can get behind that sentiment. What I take issue is with is the sly insinuation that all men are somehow responsible for people like Harvey Weinstein. That if we'd only stepped up and taken a stand, things would be okay. It's one thing to talk about endowing people with this responsibility, but why should it be men only who have this burden? If you're a woman, shouldn't you have the responsibility to prevent sexual violence too?

Women didn't have the power to demand change. Men condemning Weinstein's well known behavior could have put pressure on him that he would have responded to. Men just looked the other way when common decency demanded they say and do something. The degradation of that many women just didn't bother the men around Weinstein enough to act.

That's true. Plenty of the men around Weinstein knew about his seedy little routine. And they should have spoken up, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that women too had this responsibility. Contrary to what the left likes to think, women also have agency and responsibility in this world, not men alone. What you're suggesting is that we dumb down women's agency, reduce them to children and place all the burden of responsibility upon men.

I'm saying women were reduced to objects to be used, and there wasn't much they could do about it. Why do you want to blame Weinstein's victims for his behavior? They couldn't stop him. The men directly associated with him could have.

I'm sorry but I think you're being naive. You do understand that many of the women Weinstein 'abused' (let's remember he hasn't been convicted of anything yet and we believe in innocence until proven guilty in this country) were engaging in transactional sexual encounters were they were promised a part in a movie and gave up sex on that basis. You're saying none of these could have come forward? None at all? I think you're stepping into wilful ignorance territory here...

Didn't he tell them that they would never work again if they said anything?
He was powerful enough to make that happen. Would you have come forward, changed your career over a yuck like that?

I don't KNOW that but if it is confirmed by a Court of Law then I will, and the scum should go to jail!!

My "beef" is about verifiability. Conviction by accusation isn't my thing.

But make no mistake; IF the Law was broken then jail the bastards!!!

Greg

 

[Esmeralda]

Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to this forum (although I've lurked around for a little while without posting) but I wanted to share with you my arguments against the feminist '#MeToo' movement which has been circulating since October of last year. Lately there's been plenty of backlash against #MeToo, so I'm curious to know what the general opinion is.

Any feedback on my video (good or bad) is much appreciated!



Here are my three arguments:

1. The #MeToo Movement Lacks a Consistent Standard

What I mean by this is that when we are talking about sexual violence it is an absolute necessity that we draw some lines in the sand. We men especially need to know exactly what behaviour qualifies as appropriate, what behaviour qualifies as inappropriate and what behaviour qualifies as utterly unconscionable. We also need to know what exactly the MeToo movement is taking a stand against. Is MeToo only for rape victims? Or is it for abuse victims more generally, or what? Where is the line drawn?

The problem with MeToo is that the stories posted under its banner cover almost the entire spectrum of sexually undesirable behaviour, ranging from ‘I was raped as a child’ to ‘someone winked at me on the bus’. And almost any negative sexual experience that could possibly be inflicted on a woman, so long as it’s posted alongside that hashtag MeToo, is treated by the left with an almost identical, uniform degree of seriousness.

The truly terrible thing about this line of reasoning is that the voices of real victims - the ones whose stories are backed up with actual, prosecutable evidence - are being drowned out by spiteful feminist rants about ‘mansplaining’ or ‘catcalling’ that don’t accomplish anything. Rape is being trivialised by the MeToo movement. It’s getting to the point where the scope of what qualifies as sexual harassment is so broad that abuse is seen as a banality, something happens to all almost all women at some point in their lives.

(At this point I’d show some rape statistics to prove that there’s no statistical grounds for a moral panic - check the video for these sources).

1. The #MeToo Movement Promotes Victimhood as a Virtue

What I mean by this is that the intended goal of any movement against rape or sexual violence should surely be to end rape or sexual violence, or to at least reduce it. But as MeToo’s founder Tarana Burke said; MeToo is not about producing evidence, finding actual rapists and locking them up, no; it’s about ’empowerment through empathy’.

It’s about women at large coming together and soaking themselves in sympathy. The typical process of MeToo posting goes like this; a woman tweets her story of alleged sexual violence, almost always without naming her assailant or offering any supporting evidence whatsoever, and is then rewarded with adoring comments, likes and retweets. It’s a process that clearly incentivises victimhood with its own reward scheme.

And when rape and sexual assault victims receive such an outpouring of sympathy and attention, it’s only natural that those women who haven’t been raped or assaulted in their lives are going to want a share of the victimhood as well. That’s why we’ve seen the scope of what qualifies as sexually violent behaviour widen to the point that any woman who’s been catcalled on the street is now regarded as equivalent to a victim of rape.

1. The #MeToo Movement Destroys Trust Between Men and Women

So, as I mentioned earlier, the MeToo movement offers no explanation whatsoever as to the boundaries of sexual consent. So long as a woman feels like she’s been abused, regardless of what actually happened, that’s all that matters. But if we men don’t know what is acceptable and what is not, if we don’t know what the rule is, then how are we supposed to abide by the rule?

Former US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice summed this effect up pretty well in my opinion. She said; ‘Let’s not turn women into snowflakes. Let’s not infantilise women. I don’t want it to get to a place where men start to think, well, maybe it’s better to not have women around’.

And she’s exactly right. I mean, it’s getting to the point where a man can’t even lean in for a kiss without the threat of a career-ending accusation surfacing at some point in the future. If this is what sexual relationships are going to be like from now on, then there’s a reasonable argument to be made that men may as well just give up on women completely. It’s just not worth the risk.

The #MeToo movement isn't 'feminist.' You label it so in order to render it somehow political and biased. It is very simply women telling their experiences.


Most people don't seem to know what the term 'feminist' means. It means, literally, a person who believes in equal rights for women. Any man who believes in equal rights for women is a feminist.


Too often people use the term incorrectly and pejoratively. As you have.

 

[BULLDOG]

Where to start.

The Me Too movement isn't about you. It's about women finally having the support to come forward with their experiences of men misusing their power and authority to get --or try to get -- sexual favors. If you aren't doing that to anyone, you're good, no worries.

I have to disagree with you there. It may be the case that some women perceive MeToo in this way, but the I think the left as a whole would disagree. Here's one article which appears to endow upon 'all men' the duty of the preventing sexual violence: Not all men are guilty of violence and sexism – but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes

As I mentioned in my video, some (if not most) of the MeToo stories are basically spiteful rants about non-issues like 'mansplaining' or 'catcalling', that the silent majority of women just aren't overly bothered about.

I dunno. I just got targeted in a thread here yesterday--classic inappropriate sexual remarks to a female, out of the blue-- the majority of women don't appreciate it at all.

Wolf whistling isn't in the same league as calling out for sheilas to ...er...show their privates or get bonked. It is a mistake to link them imo. If one doesn't like being wolf whistled then stay away from Democrats and Union building sites.

"but all men have a responsibility to stop those crimes" ..................NO!! All CITIZENS have an obligation to enact and enforce LAWS that bring perpetrators of those crimes to Justice and ensure that everyone knows that the Law will get them. It is also every Citizen's duty to educate themselves about it.

Greg

It's been a real long time since I got wolf whistled at. LOL That's not a crime, right?

In this particular area, laws are important, but I think it's true that men have an obligation to teach their sons what's right, speak up if a buddy is being a jerk. Isn't that what they mean?

Have you been listening?