3 men shot in hail of bullets...in gun free Britain...

Discussion in 'Europe' started by 2aguy, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Yep....gun control doesn't work...criminal control works...

    Dad and son under police guard at hospital after three shot

    Three men injured in a shocking "targeted" shooting on a housing estate in Skelmersdale are being guarded by police at hospital.

    Detectives have launched an urgent investigation after three victims were hit in a hail of bullets as a gunman opened fire in Belfield, off Digmoor Road.

    Officers rushed to the scene shortly before 1.30pm on Tuesday and found a dad and son, and another man, all with firearm discharge injuries.

    The three men, aged 21, 45 and 46, were treated in an ambulance
     
  2. Vagabond63
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    Vagabond63 VIP Member

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    "... criminal control works" Are you serious? Do tell, how many criminals shooting each other have there been in the US this year?
     
  3. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    If you would actually read my posts, you would see that the problem in the U.S. isn't normal people who own and carry guns for self defense....since they don't use those guns for crime or murder...you twit. Our problem is that we have a political party, the democrat party, that thinks letting repeat gun offenders, you know, actual gun criminals....out of jail on bond....and out of prison on sentences of less than 3 years....is a good idea. Then, these criminals go out, get another illegal gun and shoot people...

    So, dipshit....our problem isn't guns...our problem is criminal control....

    Britain is learning this lesson...since they are now doing the exact same thing...
     
  4. Augustine_
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    Augustine_ Senior Member

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    Yet the rate of these crimes is far lower than in the U.S., that being , of course, the entire point of gun control.
     
  5. Crixus
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    Crixus Gold Member

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    It's a common myth that there is no gun crime in Europe.
     
  6. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    No,....gun control doesn't lower the gun crime rate, since criminals ignore those laws......it is culture, not normal people who own guns, that determines the crime rate and the violent crime rate...

    Please...explain this if your hypothesis is supposed to have merit...

    Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


    -- gun murder down 49%

    --gun crime down 75%

    --violent crime down 72%

    Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

    Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

    Your hypothesis and argument.....

    More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

    Actual Result:

    In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

    The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....


    In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



    Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



    Britain...
    More Guns = More Gun Crime
    Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
    They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
    Your Theory again....
    More guns = More Gun Crime
    Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
    When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
    -------
     
  7. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    You would also have to explain this...

    Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

    When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



    One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

    Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


    -----

    Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



    Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

    In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

    In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

    The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

    Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.
     
  8. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Here....this will explain how you are wrong....

    U.S. vs U.K. - Crime/Murder - iGeek

    • If you look at the (the blue line): Each time the UK enacted or stiffened their gun control laws, they saw an increase in murder rates. Each new law, had no positive (and some negative) impact or an increase in murder rates. (Crime trends are even worse). (In the 1950’s they outlawed conceal and carry, in the 80’s it was shotguns, and in the late 90’s it was all pistols). So regardless of whether the UK has fewer murders than the US for cultural reasons, we know that gun control didn’t help the UK’s murder rate.
    • Next if you look at the (the red line): I overlaid (and adjusted) the U.S. murder rates with major gun control events. After JFK was shot, states and eventually the Fed (1968) passed all sorts of gun control laws — and what happened to our murder rates? They doubled from around 5 to 10 per 100K over the next decade, and they hovered there, despite all sorts of state and federal revisions, or more laws (30,000 different state/local/federal gun control laws were passed in total). There was no significant positive effects, and some observable negative ones in the U.S. due to our gun control laws.
    • Then in the late 80’s Florida passed “Must Issue” conceal and carry and castle doctrine laws were passed, and their crime/murder rates started falling noticeably. Many other states (in the South and Midwest) followed suit, with the same effects in their state murder rates, and eventually enough of those added up to start impacting the federal murder rates noticeably. Then the federal assault weapon ban expired — and if gun control worked, you’d expect an upward spike in murders, but murders trended down. Adding gun control had no positive effects, and removing them had no significant negative effects, in the U.S.!. So if you have the choice of tyranny or liberty, and there's no benefit to tyranny: opt for liberty.
    • -----


    Something important to know is that the U.K. ONS distorts their numbers for political reasons. While the rest of the world measures murder rates as people who are killed, the ONS does two things to cheat:

    1. They exclude Scotland and North Ireland from their counting: I guess when they are murdered, it isn’t as important to ONS as if Britons die. While that is only about 10% of the total population of the UK, it is significantly more of their crimes and murders.
    2. They only count murders where someone is charged with a crime. (Only between 1/2 and 3/4ths of all murders are counted).
    3. ----
    4. n the U.S. Blacks are 1/7th the population, but over 1/2 of all our murders, and Latino’s are about the same 15% of the population and are responsible for over half the rest of murders.England has virtually no blacks or latino’s (<3%). So if we correct for those demographic differences (or just compare a subset — the U.S.’s white murder rate to the UK’s white murder rate), we find that in the bright red trend line, that the U.S. has a lower murder rate than the U.K.

      Racist:Now around this time, people that can’t handle the facts or truth, start trying to distract by claiming either I’m racist, or this data is racist. But data is not making judgements, it’s just facts.

      The problem isn’t racial in America, but it is cultural.


      Black immigrants don’t have the same murder rates as Black Americans.


      And if you dive into the groups, you find rural blacks (and whites and latinos) have lower murder rates than inner cities. It’s also not income or income equality based since rural poor have lower murder rates than urban poor -- and many richer countries have more murders/crime than many poorer ones. It's about failures of the inner city gang culture.

      So facts are facts. In the U.S. we have a lower white murder rate (but higher black murder rate) than the U.K.


      And white’s in America have higher gun ownership rates than blacks (or than whites in the U.K.) — so we know that gun control doesn’t help murder rates for whites. At least across these two countries.

      And the reason for differences among blacks in the two countries is easily explained by gang culture in the U.S.
    Conclusion
    Anyone vaguely informed on gun control issues knows is that the U.S. does not have a gun problem.

    • Whites and Asian are highly responsible with guns, and have a lower murder rate than almost all of Europe and the OECD countries. We have a very specific problem: democrats, blacks and latino gang-members drag our murder and crime rates averages up.
    • The UK has a higher white murder rate, but they use clubs and knives rather than guns. Since I’m pretty sure most people don’t want to be stabbed or beaten to death, the important factor is whether you’re murdered or not (not the tool the murderer uses), right?
    Another thing gun-controller advocates either don’t realize (or do, and lie about) is as bad as the U.S. is at murders or violent crime -- the UK is worse despite their gun control. England alone has something like 600 murdersby knife per year (and 26,370 knife crimes). Compare that to only 1,500 for the U.S., with over 5 times the population. Home invasion robberies, aggravated assault, violent rape, and stabbings are worse in the UK than in the U.S. And that's BEFORE you correct for race and gang crimes.
     
  9. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    It’s not “gun free Britain.”

    Fail.

    Again.
     
  10. Augustine_
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    Augustine_ Senior Member

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    Gun control works in Britain. Stop trying to convince them to flood the streets with guns like our stupid asses have done.
     

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