$27 Million to change NYC street signs

[The Infidel]

 

[jillian]

On its face it's ridiculous. And it may well be.

But the article is from the NY Post, so who knows what's left out of the story. *shrug*

How can the leave something out when the subject is street signs and wasting millions to do so.

So you have no problem with govt wasting millions on shit because a story might have not told you that they are replacing the poles also.

perhaps you aren't familiar with the new york post.

 

[Ozmar]

Everyone has their own little empire to protect.

Even though this was a Bush regulation, I don't see what's wrong with it. Creating standards is a clear constitutional responsibility. \

Wow ,I never read the Constitution that way .
I always saw it as handcuffs on the Government , not as the invisible hand of universal compliance and uniformity.

It's not strictly constitutional, however...

Remember how all of the states now have a legal drinking age of 21? This was not always the case. The federal government passed legislation that stated that federal funding for various reasons would not be given to states that did not comply with a drinking age of 21. One by one as the states started feel the crunch of not having that federal funding, they complied.

With this highway signage, I'm sure there is a clause somewhere whereby federal funding for interstates and other projects is tied to adopting this sign standard.

 

[Ozmar]

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE are certain fonts that are more readable than others from certain distances. That being stated, if someone can not read capital letters, that is more of an educational problem than a font problem. Also, the notion that caps indicating shouting online carries over to road signs either gives the general public less credit than they deserve, or that society really is becoming dumber by the hour.

 

[jillian]

Wow ,I never read the Constitution that way .
I always saw it as handcuffs on the Government , not as the invisible hand of universal compliance and uniformity.

not really. it's more to assure individual liberties, yet those are the very things the right likes interfering with... eg, restricting reproductive choice;

if it were intended as handcuffs on the government, there wouldn't be such broad clauses as the general welfare and commerce clause.

you seem to be under the misconception, which a lot of people on the far right seem to share, that the founders hated government like the extreme right does. they didn't. they loved government. they just wanted it to be THEIR government.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Increase readability? Is it really that hard to READ IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS?

And if this is such a big deal, why don't they just slowly phase them in on a case by case basis?

At a distance, it's difficult to see spaces in road signs. Using proper case, makes that easier. Earlier in this thread, there's the report that Bush used to form the regulation. It's an interesting read, and makes a compelling argument. The standard also makes it much easier to read signs using peripheral vision, which means people keep their eyes on the road much longer.

(damn, I can't believe I'm here defending something that Bush did)

 

[MaggieMae]

The Capital of the World is going lower-case.

Federal copy editors are demanding the city change its 250,900 street signs -- such as these for Perry Avenue in The Bronx -- from the all-caps style used for more than a century to ones that capitalize only the first letters.

Changing BROADWAY to Broadway will save lives, the Federal Highway Administration contends in its updated Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, citing improved readability.

At $110 per sign, it will also cost the state $27.6 million, city officials said.

The new regulations also require a change in font from the standard highway typeface to Clearview, which was specially developed for this purpose.

As a result, even numbered street signs will have to be replaced.

Read more: Under new federal guidelines all New York City street signs will have to be made lower-case - NYPOST.com

Our tax dollars at work. Good to see that the feds have their priorities in order. Maybe it will "save or create" a few more jobs.

From the article:

The Highway Administration acknowledged that New York and other states "opposed the change, and suggested that the use of all upper-case letters remain an option," noting that "while the mixed-case words might be easier to read, the amount of improvement in legibility did not justify the cost."

To compensate for those concerns, in 2003, the administration allowed for a 15-year
phase-in period ending in 2018.

Sigh... READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ozmar]

Perhaps they should make my keyboard in lowercase. I can't identify these strange symbols on the buttons that I hit. They're all in CAPS!

 

[boedicca]

Increase readability? Is it really that hard to READ IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS?

And if this is such a big deal, why don't they just slowly phase them in on a case by case basis?

At a distance, it's difficult to see spaces in road signs. Using proper case, makes that easier. Earlier in this thread, there's the report that Bush used to form the regulation. It's an interesting read, and makes a compelling argument. The standard also makes it much easier to read signs using peripheral vision, which means people keep their eyes on the road much longer.

(damn, I can't believe I'm here defending something that Bush did)

Still waiting for that explanation regarding applicability of Article 1 Section 8 of The Constitution.

 

[MaggieMae]

While they are redoing them, maybe they can add Braille...

Otherwise Blind Drivers won't Know where they are at either!



peace...

I was thinking that also. May as well go for putting these signs in 3 or 4 different languages as well.

Damn it... I Forgot about that also... I'm so Insensitive.



peace...

Proper names remain the same in any language.

 

[Ozmar]

Where I work, they are changing the store logos. They're going to be ALL lowercase because apparently that's "hip" and "modern."

I think uppercase letters are slowly going the way of the dinosaurs. Heck, in English all nouns used to be capitalized like in German. now it's only proper nouns.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Increase readability? Is it really that hard to READ IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS?

And if this is such a big deal, why don't they just slowly phase them in on a case by case basis?

At a distance, it's difficult to see spaces in road signs. Using proper case, makes that easier. Earlier in this thread, there's the report that Bush used to form the regulation. It's an interesting read, and makes a compelling argument. The standard also makes it much easier to read signs using peripheral vision, which means people keep their eyes on the road much longer.

(damn, I can't believe I'm here defending something that Bush did)

Still waiting for that explanation regarding applicability of Article 1 Section 8 of The Constitution.

Setting national standards under the weights and measures clause is pretty clear, and has been accepted since our inception. With the commerce clause, it's clear that the feds do have authority to set standards. 110v AC is a federal standard. Do you want that to go away? How about the federal standard for common gauge railroad tracks?

You'll have a hard time arguing that the federal government does not have the constitutional authority to set standards on things as common as road signs.

 

[Ozmar]

At a distance, it's difficult to see spaces in road signs. Using proper case, makes that easier. Earlier in this thread, there's the report that Bush used to form the regulation. It's an interesting read, and makes a compelling argument. The standard also makes it much easier to read signs using peripheral vision, which means people keep their eyes on the road much longer.

(damn, I can't believe I'm here defending something that Bush did)

Still waiting for that explanation regarding applicability of Article 1 Section 8 of The Constitution.

Setting national standards under the weights and measures clause is pretty clear, and has been accepted since our inception. 110v AC is a federal standard. Do you want that to go away? How about the federal standard for common gauge railroad tracks?

You'll have a hard time arguing that the federal government does not have the constitutional authority to set standards on things as common as road signs.

Haha, Federal Aviation Authority, what side of the road people drive on... license plate sizes, driver's licenses... a lot of stuff

 

[MaggieMae]

This is the kind of thing that should be eliminated by a line-item veto, but who is going to go through and pick out all the little million-here, million-there crap and risk endless bickering in Congress over, say a few million to change street signs? And would the USSC reverse its own decision that the line item veto is unconstitutional in the first place?

 

[boedicca]

At a distance, it's difficult to see spaces in road signs. Using proper case, makes that easier. Earlier in this thread, there's the report that Bush used to form the regulation. It's an interesting read, and makes a compelling argument. The standard also makes it much easier to read signs using peripheral vision, which means people keep their eyes on the road much longer.

(damn, I can't believe I'm here defending something that Bush did)

Still waiting for that explanation regarding applicability of Article 1 Section 8 of The Constitution.

Setting national standards under the weights and measures clause is pretty clear, and has been accepted since our inception. With the commerce clause, it's clear that the feds do have authority to set standards. 110v AC is a federal standard. Do you want that to go away? How about the federal standard for common gauge railroad tracks?

You'll have a hard time arguing that the federal government does not have the constitutional authority to set standards on things as common as road signs.

How does a street sign fall under Weights & Measures?

Having standard pounds, ounces, inches is important for interstate trade so that one can price a unit of a commodity and such. A street sign bears absolutely no relationship to standards required for commerce.

 

[Dick Tuck]

This is the kind of thing that should be eliminated by a line-item veto, but who is going to go through and pick out all the little million-here, million-there crap and risk endless bickering in Congress over, say a few million to change street signs? And would the USSC reverse its own decision that the line item veto is unconstitutional in the first place?

Probably not, since this was done under the delegated regulatory mechanism. Which means that it was proposed, studied, sent out for comment, amended, and essentially approved by Bush. The only thing that congress could have done was threaten to defund the agency, like they did when Clinton proposed regulations to keep accounting firms from doing side consulting with companies whose books they were auditing.

 

[asterism]

On its face it's ridiculous. And it may well be.

But the article is from the NY Post, so who knows what's left out of the story. *shrug*

Wanna bet that this bright idea comes from 'research'. That's some more tax dollars well spent.

While I don't think that this is money well spent, I am a fan of fonts and road signage. I am a "Roadgeek".


Here are some interesting articles on Clearview:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html
Signs of Change: How a new font called “Clearview” is changing America’s highways: The Hardest Year

The studies...

http://tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-4984-S.pdf
http://tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-4984-1.pdf

And a video...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46fb_hn6yE]YouTube - Signs of Change: How the new Clearview font is changing America's highways[/ame]

Wonderful. The government funds a study to justify government funding to change signs. "it's just kind of an unpleasant letter."

 

[asterism]

Read more: Under new federal guidelines all New York City street signs will have to be made lower-case - NYPOST.com

Our tax dollars at work. Good to see that the feds have their priorities in order. Maybe it will "save or create" a few more jobs.

Each sign may cost $110 each, but you also have to add in the salary of the 5 person crew to change it. So your $27 million job is in reality will be more likely be $127 million.

So what if it does, not that you've shown that the total cost wasn't accounted. It's NY cities and states money. If they feel this is good use, that's up to them.

New York got a federal bailout. It's not their money.

 

[mal]

Each sign may cost $110 each, but you also have to add in the salary of the 5 person crew to change it. So your $27 million job is in reality will be more likely be $127 million.

So what if it does, not that you've shown that the total cost wasn't accounted. It's NY cities and states money. If they feel this is good use, that's up to them.

New York got a federal bailout. It's not their money.

What a bunch of...

peace...

 

[asterism]

Read more: Under new federal guidelines all New York City street signs will have to be made lower-case - NYPOST.com

Our tax dollars at work. Good to see that the feds have their priorities in order. Maybe it will "save or create" a few more jobs.

Each sign may cost $110 each, but you also have to add in the salary of the 5 person crew to change it. So your $27 million job is in reality will be more likely be $127 million.

And just think of the 10 or 12 Jobs Saved Or Created the Obamanoids will add to the tally!

I wonder how many jobs are going to be created or saved when they replace the current ARRA signs with signs announcing this project of replacing signs.