250 Iraqi Detainees Claim Torture By US Forces

[eots]

Exactly how many tours have you served in Iraq?!?!? From the sounds of it you must have served at least 5!! I just got back from my 4th and I am going back in 5 months for my 5th. People who have been sentenced for paying bombers to blow themselves up are being released because of over population in the jails. People who fire rockets, I.E.D. emplacers, people who were all arrested for having I.E.D. making material all released last time I was there, but hey you know more then me!!!! Let me know when you get a clue of what is actually going on over there and then come back at me!

wow! the jails are so full that people financing suicide bombings and rockets launching killers at set free!..because lets see the jails are so full of people worse than suicide bombers and rocket launching killers...wow you should call CNN on this one...im sure they would love to hear from someone deployed to Iraq 5 times...sounds like a real mess if suicide bombers and rocket owners are allowed to just go free maybe we should just leave

 

[eots]

The difference? Well, for one, we provide prisoners with food and medical treatment equal to and sometimes better than what we provide our own people. The Japanese provided almost no medical treatment and little food.

The Japanese are also on record for beating prisoners, killing them out of hand, crippling them, puttin gbamboo slivers under their fingernails and lightinng them on fire.

Oh, and their sophisticated method of "waterboarding" was sticking a prisoner's head in a bucket of water for as long as they felt like.

As a retired Marine who spent a quarter of 20 years at the "tip of the spear" abroad, I fully expected that if captured to be tortured far worse than anything that happens to any US prisoners, if it so suited the desires of my captors.

The fact is, those other countries, or in this case terrorist elements do it because they can, and they know it makes a certain political element in this country squeal and want to quit. It only matters to them if WE do it for the same latter reason in previous sentence.

you cant make the compassion to jap pows ..war was declared ,the prisioners where uniformed combatants not ,,suspects that after torture turn out to be taxi drivers and family men in the wrong place at the wrong time.. it is a big difference

 

[JimH52]

Sorry dude, you got the wrong guy. I don't blindly stagger behind anyone. Perhaps prior to making such ingnorant comments you should do a little research.

The fact that I consider Bush the lesser of two evils does not in fact mean I think Bush is the ideal President. I will point to the collective choices of both parties in this upcomming election to support THAT argument. Dumb, dumber and dumberer.

But you'll just blissfully go push the "D" button regardless the consequences to this nation simply because you're programmed to do so.

But...you did vote for bush. Nuff said...you enabled an idiot.

 

[pegwinn]

you cant make the compassion to jap pows ..war was declared ,the prisioners where uniformed combatants not ,,Of course you can make the comparison. After all the question was:

Originally Posted by Shogun:
Could you illustrate the difference between both what we do and what the Japanese did?

It is called "addressing the question directly".
suspects that after torture turn out to be taxi drivers and family men in the wrong place at the wrong time.. it is a big difference It is a big difference if the allegation of innocence is proven. For now, I have seen no verified proof that the US has actually tortured terror suspects that are proven innocent.

It is important to note that there are terror suspects we released due to lack of clear and convincing evidence who were convicted elsewhere. Thus, the compare and contrast between us and the WWII Imperial Japanese still favors the USA.

 

[Gunny]

you cant make the compassion to jap pows ..war was declared ,the prisioners where uniformed combatants not ,,suspects that after torture turn out to be taxi drivers and family men in the wrong place at the wrong time.. it is a big difference

I can make the comparison if I'm asked to. Simple as that.

So we should just ignore people running around with rocket launchers and AK-47s and/or bombs strapped to their chests because they choose to not wear uniforms?

War IS declared on terrorism and terrorists. These people are suspected terrorists. Please DO provide a list of how many people have been detained vs how many have been released. Include those who are KNOWN to be just taxi drivers or family men in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also include in the latter number exactly how many were PROVEN to have been "tortured."

Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

 

[Gunny]

But...you did vote for bush. Nuff said...you enabled an idiot.

Nah ... it's not "nuff said." You would have enabled even bigger idiots far more detrimental to this nation than Bush has proven to be.

And you're going to run out try to do the same damned thing come next Nov.

I think THAT is "nuff said."

 

[eots]

I can make the comparison if I'm asked to. Simple as that.

So we should just ignore people running around with rocket launchers and AK-47s and/or bombs strapped to their chests because they choose to not wear uniforms?

War IS declared on terrorism and terrorists. These people are suspected terrorists. Please DO provide a list of how many people have been detained vs how many have been released. Include those who are KNOWN to be just taxi drivers or family men in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also include in the latter number exactly how many were PROVEN to have been "tortured."

Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

no we should ignore them because they will apparently just be detained mistreated and released..love how the burden of proof is on innocence
instead of guilt and that you want definitive proof of torture without any allowance or forum for the victim to do so

 

[Gunny]

no we should ignore them because they will apparently just be detained mistreated and released..love how the burden of proof is on innocence
instead of guilt and that you want definitive proof of torture without any allowance or forum for the victim to do so

Show some actual evidence they are being mistreated instead of just saying it.

The burden of proof is not on innocence. It's on the person making the unsubstantiated allegation.

Nowhere have I said anyone should not be allowed a forum to make their claims. Matter of fact, this thread is exactly THAT. I merely stated my opinion of said claims.

Odd isn't it how you wish to do the verysame you accuse me of TO me and not allow me to voice my opinion?

 

[eots]

Show some actual evidence they are being mistreated instead of just saying it.

The burden of proof is not on innocence. It's on the person making the unsubstantiated allegation.

Nowhere have I said anyone should not be allowed a forum to make their claims. Matter of fact, this thread is exactly THAT. I merely stated my opinion of said claims.

Odd isn't it how you wish to do the verysame you accuse me of TO me and not allow me to voice my opinion?

for god sakes I was not talking about you ! I was talking about those detainees making the accusations..without the cooperation and a degree of benefit of the doubt from the authority's proof is a imposable burden for the victim, what if its the authority that makes the false accusation ? why do they not require PROOF before they take such actions

 

[Gunny]

for god sakes I was not talking about you ! I was talking about those detainees making the accusations..without the cooperation and a degree of benefit of the doubt from the authority's proof is a imposable burden for the victim, what if its the authority that makes the false accusation ? why do they not require PROOF before they take such actions

You were addressing ME. If you are going to use "you" in another context while addressing me, then you need to state such.

Proof is ALWAYS legally the burden of the accuser. You seem to forget that legally, while not always practiced, the accused is not required to prove innocence.

What are you missing here? If the authority acts upon erroneous information, the accused are released. Kinda like what the original post in this thread is about? If the accused then turns around and becomes the accuser, then the burden of proof shifts to him. The authority is then placed in the role of the accused and is innocent until proven guilty.

Further, as the accused, the authority has no obligation to incriminate intself anymore than the individual beyond any information that is a matter of public record by law.

Not that hard if you bother to think it through.

 

[eots]

You were addressing ME. If you are going to use "you" in another context while addressing me, then you need to state such.

Proof is ALWAYS legally the burden of the accuser. You seem to forget that legally, while not always practiced, the accused is not required to prove innocence.

What are you missing here? If the authority acts upon erroneous information, the accused are released. Kinda like what the original post in this thread is about? If the accused then turns around and becomes the accuser, then the burden of proof shifts to him. The authority is then placed in the role of the accused and is innocent until proven guilty.

Further, as the accused, the authority has no obligation to incriminate intself anymore than the individual beyond any information that is a matter of public record by law.

Not that hard if you bother to think it through.

if the detainee shares the same burden of proof he should also share the same benefit of being innocent until pr oven guilty and he should be given due process and representation and allowed the same protection of self incrimination ,detained for no more than a set period of time and ether be charged with a crime or released

 

[doniston]

for god sakes I was not talking about you ! I was talking about those detainees making the accusations..without the cooperation and a degree of benefit of the doubt from the authority's proof is a imposable burden for the victim, what if its the authority that makes the false accusation ? why do they not require PROOF before they take such actions

Well stated. I agree.

 

[trobinett]

Well stated. I agree.

Of course YOU do...................

 

[eots]

Of course YOU do...................

wow thanks for your input ,a four word meaningless statement and a little moronic smiley icon

 

[Gunny]

wow thanks for your input ,a four word meaningless statement and a little moronic smiley icon

Which is actually head and shoulders above the post he responded to.

 

[pegwinn]

Problem is that this mess o worms isn't a traditional criminal court.

Problem is that this mess o worms isn't a traditional war with EPW's and Geneva Convention rules and RC verification.

See what uncontrolled breeding does?