240-year-old nautical maps show coral loss is much worse than we knew

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Oh, you were specific, but not rational.

You do realize that a lot of the things you see on those old maps was fantasy? Right? The map makers of old were infamous for creating things out of whole cloth.

. Wonder what the map looked like when it was thought that the world was flat ? LOL.

These commemts about the accuracy of the map are out of desperation. Clearly the map is very accurate.

Sea dragons and all. NOBODY -- particularly ONE MAN -- had the time or equipment or ability to ACCURATELY map the Florida Keys in the 1700s. It's anecdotal. Interesting, but not documented. No methods, no actually DIVE information, no water temps, no GPS...

"NOBODY -- particularly ONE MAN -- had the time or equipment or ability to ACCURATELY map the Florida Keys in the 1700s."

you have a bad habit of letting what you "kinda, sorta feel" is true get in the way of your rational judgment.

Pretty sure I was very specific and rational about this. Instead of attacking me, feel free to take issue with anything I said that upset you Bunky..

Well, first of all ya goofball, it was Key West, not the Keys. So you kind of fell on your face, there. Second of all, you just made up your little declaration that a person "could not do this by himself" because it sounded good. You and i both know you did exactly zero research into that, or even gave a single, fleeting rational thought to the idea that he oh just might not have been alone, before those words spilled from your fingers. ya sound like a damn fool, you really do.

 

[fncceo]

Just some more news about our oceans dying.

240-year-old nautical maps show coral loss is much worse than we knew

Between 1773 and 1775, George Gauld, a surveyor with the British Admiralty, immortalized the coast of the Florida Keys in ink. Though his most pressing goal was to record the depth of the sea — to prevent future shipwrecks — Gauld embraced his naturalist side, too. He sprinkled his maps with miscellany that later charts would omit: where sea turtles made their nests, or the colors and consistency of sand.

Gauld also took note of the corals he saw. And in doing so he created the oldest known records of Florida reefs.

“With the early charts you can actually see the reef itself being drawn,” said Loren McClenachan, a marine ecologist at Colby College in Maine. “It matches almost exactly with the satellite data.” In a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances, McClenachan and her colleagues compared those 240-year-old observations with present-day satellite images.

A stark picture of shrinking coral emerged: Half of the reefs recorded in the 1770s are missing from the satellite data. The coral nearest to shore fared the worst, with 88 percent of the coral that Gauld recorded now gone.

You do realize that a lot of the things you see on those old maps was fantasy? Right? The map makers of old were infamous for creating things out of whole cloth.

. Wonder what the map looked like when it was thought that the world was flat ? LOL.

Lots and lots of coral... apparently

 

[Care4all]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

 

[westwall]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

I thought we were talking about science and not religion.

 

[Care4all]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

I thought we were talking about science and not religion.

they coincide!!!

besides not much science was really being talked about by posters other than Matthew's op....thus my side bar!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Just look at this dead coral reef. DAMN YOU FRED FLINTSTONE!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh, you were specific, but not rational.

. Wonder what the map looked like when it was thought that the world was flat ? LOL.

These commemts about the accuracy of the map are out of desperation. Clearly the map is very accurate.

Sea dragons and all. NOBODY -- particularly ONE MAN -- had the time or equipment or ability to ACCURATELY map the Florida Keys in the 1700s. It's anecdotal. Interesting, but not documented. No methods, no actually DIVE information, no water temps, no GPS...

"NOBODY -- particularly ONE MAN -- had the time or equipment or ability to ACCURATELY map the Florida Keys in the 1700s."

you have a bad habit of letting what you "kinda, sorta feel" is true get in the way of your rational judgment.

Pretty sure I was very specific and rational about this. Instead of attacking me, feel free to take issue with anything I said that upset you Bunky..

Well, first of all ya goofball, it was Key West, not the Keys. So you kind of fell on your face, there. Second of all, you just made up your little declaration that a person "could not do this by himself" because it sounded good. You and i both know you did exactly zero research into that, or even gave a single, fleeting rational thought to the idea that he oh just might not have been alone, before those words spilled from your fingers. ya sound like a damn fool, you really do.

So the Captain made some crude notes on a drawing and all of a sudden, we have "coral loss" to the 2nd decimal point. Did you READ the article??


The coral nearest to shore fared the worst, with 88 percent of the coral that Gauld recorded now gone. At the fore-reef, the coral at the most seaward edge of the reef, there appeared to be no loss between historical coral observations and modern habitat maps. “I was surprised that there was such a strong spatial gradient,” McClenachan said.

“It’s a very important study,” said Sam Purkis, a marine geoscientist and conservationist at the University of Miami who was not involved with this research. The maps are old and were “generated with very primitive techniques,” he said. (Where modern biologists will use satellites or hop into the sea to observe coral, surveyors such as Gauld dredged up seafloor samples using rope tipped with tallow or wax pockets, the study authors wrote. Or they simply looked.)

Guess what Goofy? The shoreward side was probably NOT extensively surveyed. Because this guy wouldn't risk his boat on the extreme tidal differences in this area. Look at the SAT extent. No captain is gonna trap a ship between the reef and the shore.

There are NO DETAILS AT ALL on this map. Just a couple notations. SHOW ME the "coral boundaries" on this map.. YET -- the estimate of shore-side loss isn't 84% or 90%, it's SOMEHOW exactly 88%...

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually -- the REAL PAPER published was the entire Florida Keys. Dunno if ALL historical data came from this one ship. Didn't bother to read it all. But there's a shitload of assumptions that come with "estimated losses"..

Here's the actual puny amount of data that they are "interpreting"..

Ghost reefs: Nautical charts document large spatial scale of coral reef loss over 240 years | Science Advances

What's INTERESTING TO ME is the amount of coral in DIFFERENT areas today that is NOT noted in the historical data. The way these guys did their spatial analysis, they have NO CLUE where to set boundaries on the ancient observations. Just guessed and EXTENDED the reading.

Furthermore, dragging wax probes for MILES behind a ship is prone to moving the reporting areas by at least DOZENS of miles when you account for the 1700 navigation accuracies.

IOW -- it's comparing vague reports to pin-point modern accuracies. It's INTERESTING, but not conclusive. The alternate conclusion is that the reefs have shifted. Because there's a shitload of coral in the modern record that's unaccounted for in the ancient maps.

 

[flacaltenn]

It's ridiculous actually to take the ship data LITERALLY. Look at Insert C on the chart that I linked above.

These idiots declare "coral loss" because the SHIP RECORDS miss the reef in Florida Bay by JUST about 1 Kilometer. Is that a CORAL LOSS? Or is it the limits of 1700 navigation???

Stupid to leap to conclusions over this..

 

[Cosmos]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

Actually, it will be due to ocean acidification. But you can call it prophesy if you like.

 

[Cosmos]

Just look at this dead coral reef. DAMN YOU FRED FLINTSTONE!!!
View attachment 149835

Well, if you think Congress is having a tough enough time budgeting for Harvey and Irma relief, just take a guess at how much it would cost our economy to return to the Jurassic.

 

[bripat9643]

Just some more news about our oceans dying.

240-year-old nautical maps show coral loss is much worse than we knew

Between 1773 and 1775, George Gauld, a surveyor with the British Admiralty, immortalized the coast of the Florida Keys in ink. Though his most pressing goal was to record the depth of the sea — to prevent future shipwrecks — Gauld embraced his naturalist side, too. He sprinkled his maps with miscellany that later charts would omit: where sea turtles made their nests, or the colors and consistency of sand.

Gauld also took note of the corals he saw. And in doing so he created the oldest known records of Florida reefs.

“With the early charts you can actually see the reef itself being drawn,” said Loren McClenachan, a marine ecologist at Colby College in Maine. “It matches almost exactly with the satellite data.” In a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances, McClenachan and her colleagues compared those 240-year-old observations with present-day satellite images.

A stark picture of shrinking coral emerged: Half of the reefs recorded in the 1770s are missing from the satellite data. The coral nearest to shore fared the worst, with 88 percent of the coral that Gauld recorded now gone.

You do realize that a lot of the things you see on those old maps was fantasy? Right? The map makers of old were infamous for creating things out of whole cloth.

. Wonder what the map looked like when it was thought that the world was flat ? LOL.

These commemts about the accuracy of the map are out of desperation. Clearly the map is very accurate.

How is that clear? They couldn't even determine longitude accurately in those days because they didn't have clocks that were accurate enough.

 

[bripat9643]

Just some more news about our oceans dying.

240-year-old nautical maps show coral loss is much worse than we knew

Between 1773 and 1775, George Gauld, a surveyor with the British Admiralty, immortalized the coast of the Florida Keys in ink. Though his most pressing goal was to record the depth of the sea — to prevent future shipwrecks — Gauld embraced his naturalist side, too. He sprinkled his maps with miscellany that later charts would omit: where sea turtles made their nests, or the colors and consistency of sand.

Gauld also took note of the corals he saw. And in doing so he created the oldest known records of Florida reefs.

“With the early charts you can actually see the reef itself being drawn,” said Loren McClenachan, a marine ecologist at Colby College in Maine. “It matches almost exactly with the satellite data.” In a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances, McClenachan and her colleagues compared those 240-year-old observations with present-day satellite images.

A stark picture of shrinking coral emerged: Half of the reefs recorded in the 1770s are missing from the satellite data. The coral nearest to shore fared the worst, with 88 percent of the coral that Gauld recorded now gone.

. And this means what to science ?

It lends support to the idea that we are witnessing a mass extinction event, and not just of coral.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

[skookerasbil]

The coral?

Not this shit again!!

Nobody gives a flying fuck about coral that comes and goes as the climate changes..........

 

[flacaltenn]

I've got my own experience at Bahia Honda. So I looked up the status of near shore reefs on Trip Advisor..

Best coral reef snorkeling in the Keys!
Bahia Honda beach was one of our favorite destinations in the Florida Keys. This pristine beach is perfect for snorkeling. And there are reefs close to shore. Offers beautiful warm crystal clear water perfect for swimming, relaxing and snorkeling. The beautiful white sand is amazing to touch and build your favorite figuring. We couldn't get enough of the water and spent hours in the water snorkeling the reefs. We saw a big beautiful orange/reddish starfish among some sting rays and many tropical fish. One of my favorite fish spotted was the cowfish.


Best coral reef snorkeling in the Keys! - Review of Bahia Honda State Park and Beach, Big Pine Key, FL - TripAdvisor

Walk into the water. Snorkel the NEAR SHORE reefs at Bahia Honda. I did that about 25 years ago.. Now what is the conclusion from this new factoidal study??

Insert D in above. All the 1700s records are TOSSED out. Says they don't exist today..

YET -- there are MILES of beach reachable shore reefs all around that island today.. It's a matter of taking the ancient sightings TOO LITERALLY. Or by comparing apples and oranges in terms of extent..

 

[Weatherman2020]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

Actually, it will be due to ocean acidification. But you can call it prophesy if you like.

How much acid is required to change the Ph of the ocean 0.1?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Just look at this dead coral reef. DAMN YOU FRED FLINTSTONE!!!
View attachment 149835

Well, if you think Congress is having a tough enough time budgeting for Harvey and Irma relief, just take a guess at how much it would cost our economy to return to the Jurassic.

I bet they spend time on it!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Just some more news about our oceans dying.

240-year-old nautical maps show coral loss is much worse than we knew

Between 1773 and 1775, George Gauld, a surveyor with the British Admiralty, immortalized the coast of the Florida Keys in ink. Though his most pressing goal was to record the depth of the sea — to prevent future shipwrecks — Gauld embraced his naturalist side, too. He sprinkled his maps with miscellany that later charts would omit: where sea turtles made their nests, or the colors and consistency of sand.

Gauld also took note of the corals he saw. And in doing so he created the oldest known records of Florida reefs.

“With the early charts you can actually see the reef itself being drawn,” said Loren McClenachan, a marine ecologist at Colby College in Maine. “It matches almost exactly with the satellite data.” In a study published Wednesday in the journal Science Advances, McClenachan and her colleagues compared those 240-year-old observations with present-day satellite images.

A stark picture of shrinking coral emerged: Half of the reefs recorded in the 1770s are missing from the satellite data. The coral nearest to shore fared the worst, with 88 percent of the coral that Gauld recorded now gone.

You do realize that a lot of the things you see on those old maps was fantasy? Right? The map makers of old were infamous for creating things out of whole cloth.

. Wonder what the map looked like when it was thought that the world was flat ? LOL.

These commemts about the accuracy of the map are out of desperation. Clearly the map is very accurate.

How is that clear? They couldn't even determine longitude accurately in those days because they didn't have clocks that were accurate enough.

A man who knows his history.

 

[westwall]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

Actually, it will be due to ocean acidification. But you can call it prophesy if you like.

How much acid is required to change the Ph of the ocean 0.1?

You would have to burn every carbon bearing rock on the planet.

 

[Weatherman2020]

just another biblical sign that the end time is nearing...2/3rds of the ocean's living creatures will die off...according to prophesy.

Actually, it will be due to ocean acidification. But you can call it prophesy if you like.

How much acid is required to change the Ph of the ocean 0.1?

You would have to burn every carbon bearing rock on the planet.

Yeah, I think of all things in nature, the ph and salinity of the ocean is stable.