23 Things They Don’t Tell You About Capitalism

[JBeukema]

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments

....

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments

....

It was a correlation of private corporations existing w/o government.

 

[JBeukema]

The Fed kinda ran the whole interstate highway thing...

we were impressed by how fast the Germans could move their military around

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The Fed kinda ran the whole interstate highway thing...

we were impressed by how fast the Germans could move their military around

Yeah, they did, until they started contracting it out. All interstates are still specked out for military today. Of course the fed could still shut it down to move military around if they wanted to.

 

[JBeukema]

If memory serves, it was justified as a system of postal roads

 

[shintao]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Of course we know this is a fallacy BLT. Corporations pass taxes onto consumers, the lucky dogs, and pay no taxes on what they buy.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

How would corporations stay in business if they weren't meddling in the affairs of the government world?

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Of course we know this is a fallacy BLT. Corporations pass taxes onto consumers, the lucky dogs, and pay no taxes on what they buy.

Of course they do. This is why I don't understand the reasoning for hiking taxes. It all comes back to the consumer. But, govt still needs corporations for their taxes. What's our biggest class in America.

 

[georgephillip]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments, GP. Believe me, I'm against any govt/corporate collusion. But an honest company, llc, scorp, inc, doesn't need govt handouts to survive. Government does not produce anything. They rely completely on taxation to survive.

If not government, who/what would produce, i.e., write, interpret and enforce the laws necessary for commerce to survive?

 

[8537]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Corporations sure wouldn't produce much without government.

They would do much better. However, a corporation should not have free reign to pollute ie air, water, soil, and so.

They would do better without government? They would produce next to nothing without government protection. Economic production and innovation would grind to a near halt.

 

[Toro]

I hit the link and the only thing I saw was some group asking for money.

 

[Colin]

I hit the link and the only thing I saw was some group asking for money.

Fucking capitalists!

 

[Toro]

What they don’t tell you

The free market doesn’t exist. Every market has some rules and boundaries that restrict freedom of choice. A market looks free only because we so unconditionally accept its underlying restrictions that we fail to see them. How "free" a market is cannot be objectively defined. It is a political definition. The usual claim by free-market economists that they are trying to defend the market from politically motivated interference by the government is false. Government is always involved and those free-marketeers are as politically motivated as anyone. Overcoming the myth that there is such a thing as an objectively defined "free market" is the first step towards understanding capitalism.

what they tell you is garbage...

what the hell "myth" are you talking about....? anyone with a gnat's capacity of historical knowledge knows that government has always been involved with business since the colonial days....and many times government has favored social reform over business interests....there has always been a push-pull of government regulation vs business interests...as business people know full well....there have always been rules...and more rules....(BO is piling on the stifling regulations at warp speed these days...).....but a business person in the real world who supports a free market does not claim that a free market must be free of all rules.....

Things are not always black and white....one can say a free market is relative....yet it must be based upon a democratic system as opposed to a socialist one....and you must agree that when there is relatively less government control....there is more individual freedom...

The OP's argument is a canard. "The free market isn't free." The term "free market" isn't meant to convey anarchy. The term "free market" is meant to convey the general state of transactions between economic agents, namely generally free of government involvement. But it is not meant to convey the sense that there isn't any government involvement. Even the most ardent free markets expect the government to be involved to some extent, even if that is merely as an adjudicator of contracts through the courts. Equating "free market" with the total absence of government involvement is tantamount to arguing that all socialism is communism.

 

[georgephillip]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Of course we know this is a fallacy BLT. Corporations pass taxes onto consumers, the lucky dogs, and pay no taxes on what they buy.

Of course they do. This is why I don't understand the reasoning for hiking taxes. It all comes back to the consumer. But, govt still needs corporations for their taxes. What's our biggest class in America.

Do you mean our biggest tax paying class in America?

According to this graph corporate tax receipts as a share of GDP have declined significantly since the end of WWII.

In 2007 Warren Buffett shocked some Hillary supporters at a fundraiser when he pointed out that he pays taxes at a 17.7% rate while his employees paid at an average rate of 32.9%.

Corporations paid at a rate of about 5%:

" US corporations, who are (according to to the Supreme Court) also citizens of this country, paid just $300Bn in taxes last year on $6 TRILLION in income (5%).

"That’s right, if US corporations simply paid the same amount of tax as Mr. Buffett – that would, by itself, be enough to wipe out our deficit."

 

[JBeukema]

What Does GE Need?

"Take GE, for example. GE has $36Bn in sales and paid $431M in taxes (15% of net profits) in 2009.

"They also paid out $9Bn in dividends and over $24Bn in 2008 and 2007 and in 2007 they bought back their own stock but, in those three years, they paid -(NEGATIVE) $900M in taxes! Are you feeling victimized yet?

"Does GE use our infrastructure?

"Do they use our public airwaves?

"Are they protected by our police?

"Is our army out there fighting and dying to protect them?

"Do they take money from our government?

"Do we educate their employees?

"This is the INSANITY of the US tax system.

Do private fortunes exist without government?

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments, GP. Believe me, I'm against any govt/corporate collusion. But an honest company, llc, scorp, inc, doesn't need govt handouts to survive. Government does not produce anything. They rely completely on taxation to survive.

If not government, who/what would produce, i.e., write, interpret and enforce the laws necessary for commerce to survive?

the past has known private armies


hell, so does the present

 

[TacomaJPP]

If I decide to produce grain and trade it with my neighbor for an amount of corn we feel is equivalent, what does the government have to say about it.

that is some trivial example. the real example is Monsanto who worked with the US government to strong arm countries into taking their product at the threat of losing foreign aid and military backing

Continuing with your example...if the gov't didn't exist in such a capacity to address that, the problem would have been averted. Done. Next.

 

[georgephillip]

That's our infrastructure, not the federal governments, GP. Believe me, I'm against any govt/corporate collusion. But an honest company, llc, scorp, inc, doesn't need govt handouts to survive. Government does not produce anything. They rely completely on taxation to survive.

If not government, who/what would produce, i.e., write, interpret and enforce the laws necessary for commerce to survive?

the past has known private armies


hell, so does the present

Gets my vote for scary post of the day.

Can you imagine Monsanto and Blackwater (Xe) mediating patent rights?

Mussolini would approve.

He might feel vindicated by the number of corporate attorneys currently serving in the US Federal judiciary.

Is the corporation being groomed to replace the nation state?

 

[shintao]

A corporation doesn't need the govt to produce a good or service. Govt needs the corporation for taxes to fund dept, agencies, entitlements, ss, welfare, military.

Of course we know this is a fallacy BLT. Corporations pass taxes onto consumers, the lucky dogs, and pay no taxes on what they buy.

Of course they do. This is why I don't understand the reasoning for hiking taxes. It all comes back to the consumer. But, govt still needs corporations for their taxes. What's our biggest class in America.

I have to disagree BLT. Government only needs corporate taxes if corporations need policing and coddling. It's not that you or I want them policed or coddled, it is that corporations want to be.

Why? Because it creates a government obligation, which allows corporations to use government power. Problem is, corporations siphon off far more than they pay, because the consumer pays for it all.

[Take a road project. Citizens didn't ask for a road, they asked for lower taxes and lower utility rates at their house. Corporations needed the road to survive and make profits. So they help establish road inspectors to check their work (which you pay for), and that creates a obligatory bond and provides more work in bidding roads corporations need. The consumer pays for the bonds that the rich siphon off for handsome profits. What did you get out of the deal?]

Lets be clear of what government power is. Power is your $$Money$$, and government uses the IRS to collect your money for the benefit of corporations. Make no mistake, the ME Wars were never for your benefit, and if they were, they paid to much for you. Further, we have given the $power$ to corrupt hands and should redeem it back to citizens hands of We The People. It is insane what we are allowing electing pigs to do to us, and they know it, everbody knows it.

So it is better, to cut the corporate umbilical cord of regulations and set them adrift, down size government, and get rid of the IRS. As Individuals if we are harmed by a corporation in any way, we have the courts, and no one can deny that prosecuting lawyers rake in billions from neglectful corporations annually, on behalf of injured consumers. Class Action lawsuits is the gathering of US citizens to right corporate wrongs, and that is the only protection they need. You should see how corporate lawyers & victim lawyers sit around and bullsit together right in front of you, go to lunch together, etc.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Of course we know this is a fallacy BLT. Corporations pass taxes onto consumers, the lucky dogs, and pay no taxes on what they buy.

Of course they do. This is why I don't understand the reasoning for hiking taxes. It all comes back to the consumer. But, govt still needs corporations for their taxes. What's our biggest class in America.

I have to disagree BLT. Government only needs corporate taxes if corporations need policing and coddling. It's not that you or I want them policed or coddled, it is that corporations want to be.

Why? Because it creates a government obligation, which allows corporations to use government power. Problem is, corporations siphon off far more than they pay, because the consumer pays for it all.

[Take a road project. Citizens didn't ask for a road, they asked for lower taxes and lower utility rates at their house. Corporations needed the road to survive and make profits. So they help establish road inspectors to check their work (which you pay for), and that creates a obligatory bond and provides more work in bidding roads corporations need. The consumer pays for the bonds that the rich siphon off for handsome profits. What did you get out of the deal?]

Lets be clear of what government power is. Power is your $$Money$$, and government uses the IRS to collect your money for the benefit of corporations. Make no mistake, the ME Wars were never for your benefit, and if they were, they paid to much for you. Further, we have given the $power$ to corrupt hands and should redeem it back to citizens hands of We The People. It is insane what we are allowing electing pigs to do to us, and they know it, everbody knows it.

So it is better, to cut the corporate umbilical cord of regulations and set them adrift, down size government, and get rid of the IRS. As Individuals if we are harmed by a corporation in any way, we have the courts, and no one can deny that prosecuting lawyers rake in billions from neglectful corporations annually, on behalf of injured consumers. Class Action lawsuits is the gathering of US citizens to right corporate wrongs, and that is the only protection they need. You should see how corporate lawyers & victim lawyers sit around and bullsit together right in front of you, go to lunch together, etc.

There't a lot in there that I agree with, Shintao.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Corporations sure wouldn't produce much without government.

They would do much better. However, a corporation should not have free reign to pollute ie air, water, soil, and so.

They would do better without government? They would produce next to nothing without government protection. Economic production and innovation would grind to a near halt.

If we break this down to a bare minimum, why do corporations need any government protection? Why would production and innovation grind to a halt without government protection?

 

[JBeukema]

They would do much better. However, a corporation should not have free reign to pollute ie air, water, soil, and so.

They would do better without government? They would produce next to nothing without government protection. Economic production and innovation would grind to a near halt.

If we break this down to a bare minimum, why do corporations need any government protection? Why would production and innovation grind to a halt without government protection?

I assume you support the abolition of all copyright and patent laws?