21 Dead near Arizona border

[theHawk]

Nothing to see here, move along! The border is more secure now than it has been for twenty years!

HERMOSILLO, Mexico (AP) — A massive gun battle between rival drug and migrant trafficking gangs near the U.S. border Thursday left 21 people dead and at least six others wounded, prosecutors said.

The fire fight occurred in a sparsely populated area about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the Arizona border, near the city of Nogales, that is considered a prime corridor for immigrant and drug smuggling.

The Sonora state Attorney General's Office said in a statement that nine people were captured by police at the scene of the shootings, six of whom had been wounded in the confrontation. Eight vehicles and seven weapons were also seized.

All of the victims were believed to be members of the gangs.

FOXNews.com - 21 killed in shootout between drug, migrant trafficking gangs near Arizona border

 

[Yukon.]

This is good news - 21 fewer drug pushers ! Good, the Lord does move in mysterious ways.

 

[ForestGirl]

I hope they continue to kill each other off.

 

[froggy]

This is a known trafficking route and its still open and in use, sound like Mexican officials want illegals in America.

 

[José]

Originally posted by froggy
This is a known trafficking route and its still open and in use, sound like Mexican officials want illegals in America.

No, Sir...

It sounds like Mexico is a sovereign country that is under no obligation to act as the border patrol of the same country that stole half of its territory for itself.

 

[theHawk]

Originally posted by froggy
This is a known trafficking route and its still open and in use, sound like Mexican officials want illegals in America.

No, Sir...

It sounds like Mexico is a sovereign country that is under no obligation to act as the border patrol of the same country that stole half of its territory for itself.

It was never Mexico's to begin with. They simply couldn't hold onto what they "claimed" was theirs.

The US rolled over Mexico in the war. More American soldiers died to disease than Mexican guns in that war. When your greatest heros of that war were Irish-American deserters thats saying something.

 

[José]

Originally posted by theHawk
It was never Mexico's to begin with. They simply couldn't hold onto what they "claimed" was theirs.

If you're trying to say Spaniards and Mexicans were landgrabbers themselves you'll get no argument from me because this is the undeniable historical truth. But the US itself recognised Mexico's sovereignty over its northern provinces by trying to buy them over and over in the 19th century.

But let me tell you something Hawk...

I remember you said something along these lines while debating the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on another Board:

"The Alamo was also lost but this doesn't mean Mexico still has any legitimate claim over those territories because the country lost the will to fight for them."

I agreed so much with your summation that I still remember it... So why are you backpedaling now if you hit the nail on the head?

 

[Bullfighter]

It sounds like Mexico is a sovereign country that is under no obligation to act as the border patrol of the same country that stole half of its territory for itself.

Even though Mexico repeatedly promised the people of the US to "do something" about illegal immigrants sneaking into the US since the Nixon administration?

The US rolled over Mexico in the war. More American soldiers died to disease than Mexican guns in that war. When your greatest heros of that war were Irish-American deserters thats saying something.

And when the Mexican government offers the opposing general Winfield Scott the Presidency of Mexico, what does that tell you?

 

[theHawk]

Originally posted by theHawk
It was never Mexico's to begin with. They simply couldn't hold onto what they "claimed" was theirs.

If you're trying to say Spaniards and Mexicans were landgrabbers themselves you'll get no argument from me because this is the undeniable historical truth. But the US itself recognised Mexico's sovereignty over its northern provinces by trying to buy them over and over in the 19th century.

But let me tell you something Hawk...

I remember you said something along these lines while debating the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on another Board:

"The Alamo was also lost but this doesn't mean Mexico still has any legitimate claim over those territories because the country lost the will to fight for them."

I agreed so much with your summation that I still remember it... So why are you backpedaling now if you hit the nail on the head?

How is it "backpeddling" in any way? And what exactly does it have to do with Zionism?

 

[AllieBaba]

It's Jose.
Really, nothing more need be said.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Bullfighter
Even though Mexico repeatedly promised the people of the US to "do something" about illegal immigrants sneaking into the US since the Nixon administration?

Verbal "promises" and vague documents and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee.

America has also been "promising" to change her gun legislation to help reduce Mexico's gun violence for ages.

Now cut the crap and show me a comprehensive border agreement officially signed by Mexico in which the country promises to act as America's border patrol (I'm referring to detailed border agreements, specifying even the number of mexican agents, their duties and place of deployment not generic, vague declaration of intentions specifying only goals).

AS LONG AS YOU'RE UNABLE TO SHOW US THIS WRITTEN AGREEMENT AMERICA IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DETENTION AND DEPORTATION OF ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS WELL AS THE APPREHENSION AND DESTRUCTION OF ILLEGAL DRUGS THAT ENTER HER TERRITORY.

This is the standard international protocol followed by all countries in the world that don't have specific, detailed border agreements signed with their neighbors.

 

[José]

Originally posted by theHawk
How is it "backpeddling" in any way? And what exactly does it have to do with Zionism?

You accepted Mexico's claim over Texas, etc... when you said that and is now backpedalling on it saying "it was never Mexican territory".

 

[José]

Originally posted by AllieBaba
It's Jose.
Really, nothing more need be said.

LOL...

How many times have you stated that America has every right to deport millions of illegal mexicans currently residing in the US, Baba?

I even lost count of the number of times I did.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone that is more just to America than I. The fact that you think I'm not is a testament to the massive bias against Mexico you and most members of this Board have.

 

[Bullfighter]

Originally posted by Bullfighter
Even though Mexico repeatedly promised the people of the US to "do something" about illegal immigrants sneaking into the US since the Nixon administration?

Verbal "promises" and vague documents and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee.

America has also been "promising" to change her gun legislation to help reduce Mexico's gun violence for ages.

Now cut the crap and show me a comprehensive border agreement officially signed by Mexico in which the country promises to act as America's border patrol (I'm referring to detailed border agreements, specifying even the number of mexican agents, their duties and place of deployment not generic, vague declaration of intentions specifying only goals).

AS LONG AS YOU'RE UNABLE TO SHOW US THIS WRITTEN AGREEMENT AMERICA IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DETENTION AND DEPORTATION OF ILLEGAL MEXICANS AS WELL AS THE APPREHENSION AND DESTRUCTION OF ILLEGAL DRUGS THAT ENTER HER TERRITORY.

This is the standard international protocol followed by all countries in the world that don't have specific, detailed border agreements signed with their neighbors.

http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/bbf/bfPresidentialVisits.pdf

 

[José]

Originally posted by Bullfighter
http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/bbf/...tialVisits.pdf

Thx for proving my point:

Smart Border Agreement, Border Partnership Agreement, etc, etc, etc...

These are the so-called "Declaration of Principles", aka, declaration of intentions, ie, general, broad, extremely vague agreements that say nothing about how many mexican federal agents will patrol the border region between Santa Cruz and Cochise County for example.

Such agreements that do not bind the signatory countries to specific, detailed obligations are little more than a wish list.

 

[WillowTree]

You are a liar Jose. And Mexico is a shithole. Arizona wants to secure the borders and Mexico wants to sue Arizona. So sit down in your shithole and shut the fuck up.

 

[syrenn]

I hope they continue to kill each other off.

Agreed. I hope there are more battles between these people and they just kill each other off as fast as they can.

 

[José]

Originally posted by WillowTree
You are a liar Jose. And Mexico is a shithole. Arizona wants to secure the borders and Mexico wants to sue Arizona. So sit down in your shithole and shut the fuck up.

OK, last post...

Why so many super patriotic american clowns, like WillowTree, insist on blaming Mexico for the US government's failure to reduce human and drug smuggling?

Why so many super patriotic mexican clowns blame America's gun legislation for the smuggling of weapons that kill thousands of Mexicans every year?

The answer is very simple:

Of all the tasks assigned to governments, border management/surveillance is one of the hardest to implement. Even countries with tiny border regions like Switzerland have trouble establishing complete control over them. Even totalitalian states like North Korea whose border with China resembles a warzone, complete with landmines, electric fences and alarms fail to prevent hundreds of North Koreans from escaping every year.

Still following me?

OK, borders are NOTORIOUSLY difficult to control.

As the years go by, the super patriotic Mexican/American clown get more and more frustrated with the inability and/or unwillingness of America/Mexico to control its side of the border and, being morally depraved individuals, have no problem using the neighboring country as a escapegoat.

 

[José]

OK, now you understand why super patriotic scoundrels like Angelhair, Bullfighter and WillowTree blame Mexico for America's dereliction (besides their own moral depravity):

The inherent complexity/difficulty of border management coupled with USpolitician's lack of political will to at least try it.

 

[Yukon.]

I suppose if there were not so many drug addicts in the USA the pushers of Mexico, indeed the pushers world-wide, would not have a market for their illegal product. The US encourages these people.