2008: Rick Santorum on "mainline Protestantism" in the U.S.

[jgarden]

George Romney's (Mitt's father) grandparents were polygamous Mormons who fled the United States with their children due to the federal government's opposition to polygamy. His maternal grandfather was Helaman Pratt (1846–1909), who presided over the Mormon mission in Mexico City before moving to the Mexican state of Chihuahua and who was the son of original Mormon apostle Parley P. Pratt (1807–1857).

..... Romney's parents, Gaskell Romney (1871–1955) and Anna Amelia Pratt (1876–1926), were American citizens and natives of Utah. They married in 1895 in Mexico and lived in Colonia Dublán in Galeana in the state of Chihuahua (one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico) where George was born on July 8, 1907. They practiced monogamy (polygamy having been abolished by the 1890 Manifesto, although it persisted in places, especially Mexico). George had three older brothers, two younger brothers, and a younger sister..... The family chose U.S. citizenship for their children, including George.

The Mexican Revolution broke out in 1910 and the Mormon colonies were endangered in 1911–1912 by raids from marauders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney

The fact that Mitt Romney's greatgrandparents fled to Mexico to evade America law to remain polygomous seems like a moral "gaffaw" that would appeal to Santorum's puritanical nature.

The fact that Mitt's father was born in Mexico and only returned to the US to escape Mexican "bandtitos"/revolutionaries could also revive the "birther" movement - oh, I forgot, that conservatives don't investigate their own!

 

[JoeB131]

Where there are high enough concentrations of any religion abuses happen. Non-Utah Mormons have very different sensitivities.

I'd say "But whatever" ... except I can't resist adding that I still think it's funny that what you seem to fear about Romney, Santorum actually lives. He fearlessly talks about how as a president he would bring religion into the national discourse. He fearlessly talks about taking away people's rights. And you're okay with that.

They aren't rights I care about, so ,no, I don't worry about it.

I'll put my thoughts on abortion like this. I don't think we should outlaw it, because it would be about as effective as prohibition was. Women were getting abortions before Roe v. Wade and they will get them after it is made illegal, if that ever happened.

Also, the Mechanism to overturn Roe is so complex it will simply never happen. At least not in my lifetime. I do think in the future, we are going to see some kind of theocracy, because people tend to turn to faith when economics fail.

I don't worry about a Strict Catholic thing, because I lived with one for about half my life. It's the devil I know. Not the Devil that creeps me the fuck out with their strange smiles and weird ass beliefs.


But I'm not wringing my hands that abortion might be made illegal. Most women I've known who've gotten abortions got them for stupid, shallow reasons. Like the gal who got two of them when her attempts to trick her boyfriend into making good on his marriage promise fell through.


I also don't really think either one of them will beat Obama, to be perfectly honest. So in many ways, you should hope Santorum wins this time. He gets beaten by Obama, and we never hear from him again. If Romney wins, and he gets beaten by Obama, guess who is "next in line" in 2016. When the Democrats don't have a bench and people are ready for a change....

 

[konradv]

"We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic. But the Judeo-Christian ethic -- sure the Catholics had some influence -- but this was a Protestant country. And the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is a shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

From a presentation at Ave Maria University in Florida

Catholics had "some" influence? When it comes to education, except for the 1%, it was either government schools or Catholic schools.

Well, not when the country was founded .....

Kind of an arbitrary cut off. America isn't flash-frozen in the 1700s and neither should our political discourse. Times change and the FFs were aware of that. It seems that some have forgotten that part of the equation. Santorum's position is an insult to everyone who came later and helped build America.

 

[JoeB131]

Catholics had "some" influence? When it comes to education, except for the 1%, it was either government schools or Catholic schools.

Well, not when the country was founded .....

Kind of an arbitrary cut off. America isn't flash-frozen in the 1700s and neither should our political discourse. Times change and the FFs were aware of that. It seems that some have forgotten that part of the equation. Santorum's position is an insult to everyone who came later and helped build America.

Well, let's back up here a bit.

At the time of the founding, the schools were run by the Prostestant Churches. Then we got a lot of Catholic immigrants and they insisted on their own schools. That's when the dominant protestant majorities did two things- 1) Secularize the Public Schools and 2) Pass "Blaine" amendments to state constitutions to make sure religious schools (namely the Catholic ones) didn't get state support.

Unfortunately, like anything the govenrment runs for a long time, the Public schools are pretty messed up. When you can't fire an incompetant teacher for years, that's messed up, absolutely. Not to mention that the ACLU has stripped the schools of any ethical teaching at all.

Now, that said, Santorum's point was that the mainstream protestant churches are so anxious to be liked by a secularist media and society, that they really don't stand for anything any more. Frankly, I think that's a problem with the Catholic Church as well. No one wants to stand up for their beliefs, and have people mock them. Much better to just preach a vanilla, no judgement theology that no one can object to, with all the depth of a motivational poster.

(And yes, I do a lot of the mocking myself. Consider me a necessary evil. People like me don't go away if you don't stand for anything.)

Sorry, I know that everyone is panicking now that Santorum is in the lead, and they are grasping for any straw to get this narrative back to where it 'should' be. (WHich is Romney politely taking his beating from Obama in November without rocking the boat too much.)

But come on, get real. Find real issues to complain about.