20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes

[ihopehefails]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Not necessarily. I know the Fair tax proposal has a prebate built in

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.

 

[ihopehefails]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays.

That is always passed on to the consumer, either in higher prices or in lowered wages for the workers. VAT's aren't just ate by the company.

 

[ihopehefails]

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays.

That is always passed on to the consumer, either in higher prices or in lowered wages for the workers. VAT's aren't just ate by the company.

How is that different from all other taxes businesses pay?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Not necessarily. I know the Fair tax proposal has a prebate built in

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.

I'll have to look more at it. You'd have to put the prebate pretty high to offset the fact a family at or below poverty level will pay out their whole income in a year.

I guess in theory it could work, though the details need fleshing out.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What do you think of a 20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes?

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

There's nothing wrong with a wealthy class. There is something wrong with a system that is designed keep the wealthy wealthy, and the poor poor.

 

[ihopehefails]

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

There's nothing wrong with a wealthy class. There is something wrong with a system that is designed keep the wealthy wealthy, and the poor poor.

Don't you think a progressive income tax or any income tax for that matter keeps the poor poor considering when that person does acquire more wealth it is taxed away from them?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the VAT is truly a sales tax then businesses do not actually pay the tax.

They collect it for the government then send it in monthly.

For example, we buy many things for resale and we have a state sales tax permit that exempts us from having to pay the tax on those items we resell. We add the state sales tax at the time of sale then file a monthly report and send that tax money to the state dept of revenue.

We do pay the state sales tax on items we buy to use like paper towels, cleaning products etc.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Not necessarily. I know the Fair tax proposal has a prebate built in

The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.

In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.

How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.

Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.

I'll have to look more at it. You'd have to put the prebate pretty high to offset the fact a family at or below poverty level will pay out their whole income in a year.

I guess in theory it could work, though the details need fleshing out.

Go to the website i linked

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays.

That is always passed on to the consumer, either in higher prices or in lowered wages for the workers. VAT's aren't just ate by the company.

How is that different from all other taxes businesses pay?

They're passed on too. I'd imagine that when it comes to taxing businesses we'd be in agreement as to how well that works.

 

[ihopehefails]

If the VAT is truly a sales tax then businesses do not actually pay the tax.

They collect it for the government then send it in monthly.

For example, we buy many things for resale and we have a state sales tax permit that exempts us from having to pay the tax on those items we resell. We add the state sales tax at the time of sale then file a monthly report and send that tax money to the state dept of revenue.

We do pay the state sales tax on items we buy to use like paper towels, cleaning products etc.

It wouldn't be a sales tax but a tax on the percent of their gross sales that they have to pay. Of course, they will add it into their cost of doing business just like all other taxes so we will be paying it but I would prefer this kind of tax instead of a 30% sales tax which I think is outragious*.

 

[Oddball]

20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes

Absolutely not.

The problem is spending, not finding new ways to shake down the rustics.

 

[ihopehefails]

That is always passed on to the consumer, either in higher prices or in lowered wages for the workers. VAT's aren't just ate by the company.

How is that different from all other taxes businesses pay?

They're passed on too. I'd imagine that when it comes to taxing businesses we'd be in agreement as to how well that works.

The more taxes a business pays like, property, income, and any other kind of tax always digs into the workers wages and keeps the poor poor?

 

[ihopehefails]

20% retail VAT tax to replace ALL income taxes

Absolutely not.

The problem is spending, not finding new ways to shake down the rustics.

Surprising...

 

[DiamondDave]

It means that the poor would end up paying 20% of their income, while the rich would pay far far less as a percentage of income. It also encourages hoarding money and creating a "landed" perpetually wealthy class.

I'd be in favor of an across the board flat tax if there were absolutely zero exemptions: Namely for every single dollar that crosses your palm, regardless of source, you pay 20% no matter who you are.

Otherwise our system is about as good as you get. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

There's nothing wrong with a wealthy class. There is something wrong with a system that is designed keep the wealthy wealthy, and the poor poor.

Yes.. because it is much better to have a system that is designated to make the wealthy poor and turn the wealth they had over to the poor

What you need is a system that keeps it's dirty fucking nose out of my freedom to earn and keep what I earn... that keeps it's dirty fucking nose out of Robin Hood dreams

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

There's nothing wrong with a wealthy class. There is something wrong with a system that is designed keep the wealthy wealthy, and the poor poor.

Don't you think a progressive income tax or any income tax for that matter keeps the poor poor considering when that person does acquire more wealth it is taxed away from them?

No. It doesn't work that way, and you know it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

How is that different from all other taxes businesses pay?

They're passed on too. I'd imagine that when it comes to taxing businesses we'd be in agreement as to how well that works.

The more taxes a business pays like, property, income, and any other kind of tax always digs into the workers wages and keeps the poor poor?

See, I think we agree on how effective taxing a business is.

You should never create taxes that directly target a business without extremely good reasons. Those taxes just get passed on in lower wages and higher costs.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Its a VAT tax that the retailer pays and what is wrong with having a wealthy class?

There's nothing wrong with a wealthy class. There is something wrong with a system that is designed keep the wealthy wealthy, and the poor poor.

Yes.. because it is much better to have a system that is designated to make the wealthy poor and turn the wealth they had over to the poor

What you need is a system that keeps it's dirty fucking nose out of my freedom to earn and keep what I earn... that keeps it's dirty fucking nose out of Robin Hood dreams

Your point fails. Name a single "wealthy" person in history who was put in the poor house by taxes.