1st time since Depression- Gov. govs pays more to households than they get in revenue

[Trajan]

well, here we are; loopholes, deductions and transfer payments etc....the madness has got to stop.


Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

snip-
The difference was about $150 billion, equivalent to more than 1 percentage point of overall personal income and about four times the amount Republicans and Democrats agreed to cut from government spending through Sept. 30.

With President Obama’s deficit-reduction plan now on the table, the political left, right and center are ready to rumble over how to assure long-term fiscal stability. The big questions are where to slash and by how much, but over the next year or two, the most important question for the economy might well be how quickly the cutting should begin. Households have become unusually dependent on the government for income support and removing that prop too fast could put the recovery at risk.

For the first time since the Great Depression, households are receiving more income from the government than they are paying the government in taxes. The combination of more cash from various programs, called transfer payments, and lower taxes has been a double-barreled boost to consumers’ buying power, while also blowing a hole in the deficit. The 1930s offer a cautionary tale: The only other time government income support exceeded taxes paid was from 1931 to 1936. That trend reversed in 1936, after a recovery was underway, and the economy fell back into a second leg of recession during 1937 and 1938.

more at-
Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

 

[Jroc]

Right were Obama and the libs want it people dependent on government.

 

[sparky]

The big questions are where to slash and by how much


foreign welfare queens?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Going by the first pie chart, I would take a serious look at everything in red and yes, that means defense. I would also do away with the education slice due to the fact that Government never gets anything right. I would then take a look at health and human services and housing as thees are two more areas that the Government needs to stay out of because they will screw it up to much. Then take a serious look at community development and possibly get rid of that to.

 

[sparky]

well we'd sure get more a bang for our $$$ if we

a)let our troops win

and......


b)let our kids think

just mho, of course....

 

[Momanohedhunter]

well we'd sure get more a bang for our $$$ if we

a)let our troops win

and......


b)let our kids think

just mho, of course....

True and a half ! We could do some serious cutting in defense alone and still keep our troops paid with benefits and superbly equipped. And I also agree with you about letting the kids think. Lots of cutting can happen and needs to happen.

 

[sparky]

well Momanohedhunter , were we to ask any of those individuals in the 'trenches', be them teachers or troops (quickly becoming indistinguishable imho) , i'd wager we'd find them opining very much in contrast with the powers that be......

they simply lack a cost efficacy from the tax rubba meets the road viewpoint imho

 

[finebead]

We clearly see the effects of the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, which never trickled down, grew the economy, and resulted in "higher tax receipts" (republican lie), and the Great Recession that started in 2007 (killing jobs and income tax revenue with it). Interest rates on overnight Fed money was dropped to zero, killing the income of all fixed income investors and dropping those tax receipts. Many 62 year olds and higher who lost their jobs could not find another one so they HAD to start taking a lower Social Security pay out in order to live (some hope to get another job, suspend SS payouts to let the payout rise for their real retirement).

It's a perfect storm, everything bad hitting at the same time; dramatically lower income (loss of 500 Billion per year of income tax receipts), combined with higher expenses to SS recipients that were not planned to happen for a few more years. But its ultimately caused by the housing bubble the repubs blew up in 2001-2006, and the repub failure in those years to regulate the mortgage lenders and the big money center banks who invented the collateralized mortgage obligations and sold them to everyone.

 

[sparky]

on topic, what about the offshore tax havens?

i mean, can the Gov possibly turn the 'tax' focus upstairs for a change, instead of arguing about mammograms on the floor of Congress?

“There are anywhere between $10 and $20 trillion sitting offshore at the moment. Half of world trade is processed in one way or another through tax havens.” Shaxson is the author of the new book, Treasure Islands: Uncovering the Damage of Offshore Banking and Tax Havens

YouTube - Offshore tax havens: much bigger problem than people realize 2.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMh6fe6PjCw]YouTube - Offshore tax havens: much bigger problem than people realize 2.[/ame]

 

[Momanohedhunter]

We clearly see the effects of the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, which never trickled down, grew the economy, and resulted in "higher tax receipts" (republican lie), and the Great Recession that started in 2007 (killing jobs and income tax revenue with it). Interest rates on overnight Fed money was dropped to zero, killing the income of all fixed income investors and dropping those tax receipts. Many 62 year olds and higher who lost their jobs could not find another one so they HAD to start taking a lower Social Security pay out in order to live (some hope to get another job, suspend SS payouts to let the payout rise for their real retirement).

It's a perfect storm, everything bad hitting at the same time; dramatically lower income (loss of 500 Billion per year of income tax receipts), combined with higher expenses to SS recipients that were not planned to happen for a few more years. But its ultimately caused by the housing bubble the repubs blew up in 2001-2006, and the repub failure in those years to regulate the mortgage lenders and the big money center banks who invented the collateralized mortgage obligations and sold them to everyone.

It would not have been so bad for the normal folks if they would have saved some money and read there paper work when they bought the house they could not afford. To go on about who, what and why it happened is nothing but fodder for political message forums. The politicians, Republican and Democrat are only going to do the bare minimum to fix it. They need to grow some nuts and cut like crazy.

 

[sparky]

well if we're going to address those issues that are seen as the social safety net for Americans, i.e.- socialism , why don't we start with the biggest social handout in world history

the wall street bailouts

after all, we wouldn't institute any double standards here, right?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

well if we're going to address those issues that are seen as the social safety net for Americans, i.e.- socialism , why don't we start with the biggest social handout in world history

the wall street bailouts

after all, we wouldn't institute any double standards here, right?

Yes the big corporations and Wall Street fat cats need to learn to handle there money better as well. When normal folks (us) mishandle our money we can end up on the street. Big corporations should face the same consequences as well. If they are so tied up into our economy (like GM) then that needs to be addressed as well so they can fail with out taking us with them.

 

[editec]

well, here we are; loopholes, deductions and transfer payments etc....the madness has got to stop.


Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

snip-
The difference was about $150 billion, equivalent to more than 1 percentage point of overall personal income and about four times the amount Republicans and Democrats agreed to cut from government spending through Sept. 30.

With President Obama’s deficit-reduction plan now on the table, the political left, right and center are ready to rumble over how to assure long-term fiscal stability. The big questions are where to slash and by how much, but over the next year or two, the most important question for the economy might well be how quickly the cutting should begin. Households have become unusually dependent on the government for income support and removing that prop too fast could put the recovery at risk.

For the first time since the Great Depression, households are receiving more income from the government than they are paying the government in taxes. The combination of more cash from various programs, called transfer payments, and lower taxes has been a double-barreled boost to consumers’ buying power, while also blowing a hole in the deficit. The 1930s offer a cautionary tale: The only other time government income support exceeded taxes paid was from 1931 to 1936. That trend reversed in 1936, after a recovery was underway, and the economy fell back into a second leg of recession during 1937 and 1938.

more at-
Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

the above is partisan BS,

Wnat to know why?

Because the above includes numbers like social security.

Social security is not a handout.

It is a PAYOFF.

And MOST of what the author of this political LIE is calling handouts is in fact Social Security payments.


I will remeind you that social security has $2.7 TRILLION dollars in assets thanks to the BABY BOOMERS having paid premiums during their entirely working lives.

Characterizing social security as welfare is nothing but ring wing CRANKSPEAK, folks.

Oh the government is broke?

Not social security's fault.

No more than it is the failt of the pension funds, banks, insurance companies or megawealth indivbiduals who bought US bonds.

We have a problem with out doubt.

Social security is NOT the source of it.

Penatgon spending on the other hand, most certainly is.

The Pentagon is an ongoing unfunded expense.

Social security is an insurance plan that is not REMOTELY broke.

 

[finebead]

well, here we are; loopholes, deductions and transfer payments etc....the madness has got to stop.


Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

snip-
The difference was about $150 billion, equivalent to more than 1 percentage point of overall personal income and about four times the amount Republicans and Democrats agreed to cut from government spending through Sept. 30.

With President Obama’s deficit-reduction plan now on the table, the political left, right and center are ready to rumble over how to assure long-term fiscal stability. The big questions are where to slash and by how much, but over the next year or two, the most important question for the economy might well be how quickly the cutting should begin. Households have become unusually dependent on the government for income support and removing that prop too fast could put the recovery at risk.

For the first time since the Great Depression, households are receiving more income from the government than they are paying the government in taxes. The combination of more cash from various programs, called transfer payments, and lower taxes has been a double-barreled boost to consumers’ buying power, while also blowing a hole in the deficit. The 1930s offer a cautionary tale: The only other time government income support exceeded taxes paid was from 1931 to 1936. That trend reversed in 1936, after a recovery was underway, and the economy fell back into a second leg of recession during 1937 and 1938.

more at-
Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

the above is partisan BS,

Wnat to know why?

Because the above includes numbers like social security.

Social security is not a handout.

It is a PAYOFF.

And MOST of what the author of this political LIE is calling handouts is in fact Social Security payments.


I will remeind you that social security has $2.7 TRILLION dollars in assets thanks to the BABY BOOMERS having paid premiums during their entirely working lives.

Characterizing social security as welfare is nothing but ring wing CRANKSPEAK, folks.

Oh the government is broke?

Not social security's fault.

No more than it is the failt of the pension funds, banks, insurance companies or megawealth indivbiduals who bought US bonds.

We have a problem with out doubt.

Social security is NOT the source of it.

Penatgon spending on the other hand, most certainly is.

The Pentagon is an ongoing unfunded expense.

Social security is an insurance plan that is not REMOTELY broke.

Agree, I read the other day, Pentagon spending is UP 84% since 2003. The wars have to be wound down, and troops in Ger. and Japan brought home. Downsize the military. There is nobody strategically threatening the US.

 

[asterism]

well, here we are; loopholes, deductions and transfer payments etc....the madness has got to stop.


Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

snip-
The difference was about $150 billion, equivalent to more than 1 percentage point of overall personal income and about four times the amount Republicans and Democrats agreed to cut from government spending through Sept. 30.

With President Obama’s deficit-reduction plan now on the table, the political left, right and center are ready to rumble over how to assure long-term fiscal stability. The big questions are where to slash and by how much, but over the next year or two, the most important question for the economy might well be how quickly the cutting should begin. Households have become unusually dependent on the government for income support and removing that prop too fast could put the recovery at risk.

For the first time since the Great Depression, households are receiving more income from the government than they are paying the government in taxes. The combination of more cash from various programs, called transfer payments, and lower taxes has been a double-barreled boost to consumers’ buying power, while also blowing a hole in the deficit. The 1930s offer a cautionary tale: The only other time government income support exceeded taxes paid was from 1931 to 1936. That trend reversed in 1936, after a recovery was underway, and the economy fell back into a second leg of recession during 1937 and 1938.

more at-
Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

the above is partisan BS,

Wnat to know why?

Because the above includes numbers like social security.

Social security is not a handout.

It is a PAYOFF.

And MOST of what the author of this political LIE is calling handouts is in fact Social Security payments.


I will remeind you that social security has $2.7 TRILLION dollars in assets thanks to the BABY BOOMERS having paid premiums during their entirely working lives.

Characterizing social security as welfare is nothing but ring wing CRANKSPEAK, folks.

Oh the government is broke?

Not social security's fault.

No more than it is the failt of the pension funds, banks, insurance companies or megawealth indivbiduals who bought US bonds.

We have a problem with out doubt.

Social security is NOT the source of it.

Penatgon spending on the other hand, most certainly is.

The Pentagon is an ongoing unfunded expense.

Social security is an insurance plan that is not REMOTELY broke.

That $2.7 Trillion isn't from the baby boomers' payments, it's from the current workers and businesses paying into the system now but won't get shit out of this ponzi scheme.

Get your facts straight.

Trustees Report Summary

 

[editec]

That $2.7 Trillion isn't from the baby boomers' payments, it's from the current workers and businesses paying into the system now but won't get shit out of this ponzi scheme.

Wrong. You have been seriously misinformed.

Social security has been LENDING the FED money for my entire adult lifetime.

That is where that $2.7 Trillion number comes from.

That is the amount of dough that the FED borrowed from the SOCIAL SECURITY INSURANCE system to give the rich nice big fat tax breaks while at the same time this nation got involved with one stupid fucking war for EMPIRE after the other.

If SSI goes down, so does every pension fund (holding trillions in US bonds) bank (holding US bonds) insurance company )(holding US bonds) and BILLIONARIE (holding US bonds)

That is EXACTLY why we see the GOP demanding that social security bennies get cut down to nothing.

Because they now don't want to REPAY the debts to the US people.

Oh they don't mind paying the banks, private insurance companies, and so forth.

Note how they do NOT say we ought to renege on the Government bonds?

No, but they do want to renege on the debt by not paying the citizen's insurance company..Social Security.

Typical of the GOP isn't it?

Fuck the public over and over, lie to them (BY CALLING SOCIAL SECURITY WELFARE AND TELLING PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SSI HAS NO MONEY) and explain that the PEOPLE have to take it on the neck and not get THEIR money back because otherwise the RICH won't stay rich.

 

[asterism]

That $2.7 Trillion isn't from the baby boomers' payments, it's from the current workers and businesses paying into the system now but won't get shit out of this ponzi scheme.

Wrong. You have been seriously misinformed.

Social security has been LENDING the FED money for my entire adult lifetime.

That is where that $2.7 Trillion number comes from.

That is the amount of dough that the FED borrowed from the SOCIAL SECURITY INSURANCE system to give the rich nice big fat tax breaks while at the same time this nation got involved with one stupid fucking war for EMPIRE after the other.

If SSI goes down, so does every pension fund (holding trillions in US bonds) bank (holding US bonds) insurance company )(holding US bonds) and BILLIONARIE (holding US bonds)

That is EXACTLY why we see the GOP demanding that social security bennies get cut down to nothing.

Because they now don't want to REPAY the debts to the US people.

Oh they don't mind paying the banks, private insurance companies, and so forth.

Note how they do NOT say we ought to renege on the Government bonds?

No, but they do want to renege on the debt by not paying the citizen's insurance company..Social Security.

Typical of the GOP isn't it?

Fuck the public over and over, lie to them (BY CALLING SOCIAL SECURITY WELFARE AND TELLING PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SSI HAS NO MONEY) and explain that the PEOPLE have to take it on the neck and not get THEIR money back because otherwise the RICH won't stay rich.

Show me how your conclusion fits with the SSA's own data.

 

[Jroc]

The big questions are where to slash and by how much


foreign welfare queens?

:cuckoo:Get a real chart idiot that one makes it look like we spend half of the total budget on defense..


[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png/800px-U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

 

[Trajan]

well, here we are; loopholes, deductions and transfer payments etc....the madness has got to stop.


Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

snip-
The difference was about $150 billion, equivalent to more than 1 percentage point of overall personal income and about four times the amount Republicans and Democrats agreed to cut from government spending through Sept. 30.

With President Obama’s deficit-reduction plan now on the table, the political left, right and center are ready to rumble over how to assure long-term fiscal stability. The big questions are where to slash and by how much, but over the next year or two, the most important question for the economy might well be how quickly the cutting should begin. Households have become unusually dependent on the government for income support and removing that prop too fast could put the recovery at risk.

For the first time since the Great Depression, households are receiving more income from the government than they are paying the government in taxes. The combination of more cash from various programs, called transfer payments, and lower taxes has been a double-barreled boost to consumers’ buying power, while also blowing a hole in the deficit. The 1930s offer a cautionary tale: The only other time government income support exceeded taxes paid was from 1931 to 1936. That trend reversed in 1936, after a recovery was underway, and the economy fell back into a second leg of recession during 1937 and 1938.

more at-
Budget Deficit: Government Handouts Top Tax Income

the above is partisan BS,

Wnat to know why?

Because the above includes numbers like social security.

Social security is not a handout.

It is a PAYOFF.

And MOST of what the author of this political LIE is calling handouts is in fact Social Security payments.


I will remeind you that social security has $2.7 TRILLION dollars in assets thanks to the BABY BOOMERS having paid premiums during their entirely working lives.

Characterizing social security as welfare is nothing but ring wing CRANKSPEAK, folks.

Oh the government is broke?

Not social security's fault.

No more than it is the failt of the pension funds, banks, insurance companies or megawealth indivbiduals who bought US bonds.

We have a problem with out doubt.

Social security is NOT the source of it.

Penatgon spending on the other hand, most certainly is.

The Pentagon is an ongoing unfunded expense.

Social security is an insurance plan that is not REMOTELY broke.

I see. and I'd ask you to read the text again, especially the part as in we are sending out, more than we take in directly on a dollar for dollar populace/household basis.

Speaking in terms of SS being broke is very misleading, I don't describe it that way , but the not so secret secret is, SS is borrowing ( at Bond costs btw) 45 Billion this year to cover shortfalls in fica In's, payments to cover the Outs.

Now you can make the liability argument and cashing in notes from the 'lock box' which inho is playing hide the nasty salami if you like, which just would lead to a series of issuea and conclusions that really sends up in the same place.


Your comments on empires ( in anther thread pertaining to the US fisc) and defense spending appear infantile and uninformed, sorry but thats the way it sounds.


Q- does someone who say earned approx. 40k-50 a year in adjusted dollars and lives 15 years past the point at which he started collections from SSI, is he/she a net payee, or ?

 

[william the wie]

At the imputed discount rate Social Security is a dead loss for all concerned and always has been.