1995 - the year I learned to despise Newt Gingrich

[Amelia]

I finally found a quote I have been looking for for some time. Gingrich said this after a pregnant woman was killed by people who wanted to steal her baby:

Let's talk about what the welfare state has created. Let's talk about the moral decay of the world the left is defending.

This happened in America. It happened in America because for two generations we haven't had the guts to talk about right and wrong. We've talked about situation ethics. We've talked about victimization. We've talked about our needs. We've had soap-opera-like television shows where people get on and describe the most disgusting behaviors.

And we have gradually tolerated, as Moynihan put it, the process of lowering standards so that you could engage in virtually any behavior and have a reasonable case. And we shake our heads and say: "Well, what? What's going wrong?"

What's going wrong is a welfare system which subsidized people for doing nothing, a criminal system which tolerated drug dealers, an educational system which allows kids to not learn and which rewards tenured teachers who can't teach, while destroying poor children who it traps in it -- in a process with no hope.

And then we end up with the final culmination of a drug-addicted underclass with no sense of humanity, no sense of civilization and no sense of the rules of life in which human beings respect each other.

Speaker Gingrich Lashing Out, in His Own Words - Text - NYTimes.com

(there are some more Gingrich quotes in that NYT article)




There might be a time for that kind of analysis - after all the facts have come out and after loved ones have had time to mourn. But my memory is that Gingrich didn't wait for the right time, and that after the case was further investigated by the police it turned out that there was a degree of inappropriateness in Gingrich's reference to "welfare" in connection with the criminals.

Whether my memory of the details is right or wrong, the effect of his speech on me was a profound and enduring revulsion.



That was the year that The American President came out. When I saw the movie and heard the Annette Bening character ask, "How do you have patience for people who claim they love America, but clearly can't stand Americans?", I immediately thought of Gingrich as a man those words fit.



I've become more right-leaning since the 1990's and can appreciate more of what Gingrich accomplished legislatively but that impression of him lingers and has on occasion been reinforced by new statements from him. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and I've gotten caught up with some of the excitement of him socking it to the media. But as I listen to the results of the exit polling from South Carolina, my sinking heart tells me that I haven't gotten over that feeling about him as hard as I've tried.

 

[JoeB131]

I thought it was 2011 when he posed a threat to your Robot.

If he was referring to the case in question from IL, the case of Jacqueline Williams, he was spot on.

Deborah Evans - The Case of Deborah Evans

Wonderful people the welfare system produces.

I think the problem with welfare in general is that we call it an "entitlement' when we should call it "charity".

The two words have very different meanings, when you get down to it. "Entitlement" means you are owed something. "Charity" is exactly that, others helping you out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[mskafka]

I finally found a quote I have been looking for for some time. Gingrich said this after a pregnant woman was killed by people who wanted to steal her baby:

Let's talk about what the welfare state has created. Let's talk about the moral decay of the world the left is defending.

This happened in America. It happened in America because for two generations we haven't had the guts to talk about right and wrong. We've talked about situation ethics. We've talked about victimization. We've talked about our needs. We've had soap-opera-like television shows where people get on and describe the most disgusting behaviors.

And we have gradually tolerated, as Moynihan put it, the process of lowering standards so that you could engage in virtually any behavior and have a reasonable case. And we shake our heads and say: "Well, what? What's going wrong?"

What's going wrong is a welfare system which subsidized people for doing nothing, a criminal system which tolerated drug dealers, an educational system which allows kids to not learn and which rewards tenured teachers who can't teach, while destroying poor children who it traps in it -- in a process with no hope.

And then we end up with the final culmination of a drug-addicted underclass with no sense of humanity, no sense of civilization and no sense of the rules of life in which human beings respect each other.

Speaker Gingrich Lashing Out, in His Own Words - Text - NYTimes.com

(there are some more Gingrich quotes in that NYT article)




There might be a time for that kind of analysis - after all the facts have come out and after loved ones have had time to mourn. But my memory is that Gingrich didn't wait for the right time, and that after the case was further investigated by the police it turned out that there was a degree of inappropriateness in Gingrich's reference to "welfare" in connection with the criminals.

Whether my memory of the details is right or wrong, the effect of his speech on me was a profound and enduring revulsion.



That was the year that The American President came out. When I saw the movie and heard the Annette Bening character ask, "How do you have patience for people who claim they love America, but clearly can't stand Americans?", I immediately thought of Gingrich as a man those words fit.



I've become more right-leaning in the intervening years and can appreciate more of what Gingrich accomplished legislatively but that impression of him lingers and has been on occasion reinforced by new statements from him. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and I've gotten caught up with some of the excitement of him socking it to the media. But as I listen to the results of the exit polling from South Carolina, my sinking heart tells me that I haven't gotten over that feeling about him as hard as I've tried.

It's difficult to swallow these words, coming from a man who was behaving (using his word) in a despicable manner in his private life, at that time and previously. I don't care whether or not he asked his wife if she would share him. That's their business. But to divorce two wives who have chronic illnesses. Two. One, I could see. Marriages go sour, and sometimes even an illness can't hold them together. But not two. Selfish. Self-righteous. Narcissistic. Three words I think of, when I think of Newt Gingrich.

He expects others to live up to standards that he himself cannot maintain.

 

[Amelia]

I thought it was 2011 when he posed a threat to your Robot.

If he was referring to the case in question from IL, the case of Jacqueline Williams, he was spot on.

Deborah Evans - The Case of Deborah Evans

Wonderful people the welfare system produces.

I think the problem with welfare in general is that we call it an "entitlement' when we should call it "charity".

The two words have very different meanings, when you get down to it. "Entitlement" means you are owed something. "Charity" is exactly that, others helping you out of the goodness of their hearts.

You thought wrong.


He's been revolting me that long. I wasn't sure of the year until I found that quote. I knew it was 1998 or earlier. 1998 was the year that Henry Hyde joined him on my list of Republicans who were turning me into a Democrat. I remembered 1998 because of the impeachment. If Bush hadn't come along and spoken of "compassionate conservatism", I would probably be a Democrat now. Or at least an Independent.


In recent years when Newt has been spoken of as sort of a grand old gent of the party, and an ideas man, I've tried to appreciate him more. But it seemed like every third or fourth time I heard him speak he would say something which made me glad that he couldn't possibly ever seriously make a run for the presidency. Like how he talked during the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy. Making Nazi references. I was so glad that with all his baggage it was practically impossible for him to try for the GOP nomination.



.... and here we are.




His debate performances were good enough to make me think I could be okay with him until how he went all OWS on Romney. And yesterday I was still trying to be okay with him. But today, as I read about the SC results and reacted before I had a chance to filter my feelings, well ... it was a miserable feeling.

If he's the GOP nominee I'll root for him because I don't want Barack Obama to make any more Supreme Court appointments. But I don't think he can win. I think that too many people will have the same revulsion I felt and check the box for the clean-cut young man with the lovely family who may not be perfect but who hasn't screwed up as bad as some people thought he would and now has four years of experience in the office.

 

[Oddball]

Gingweasel lost me when he blinked in the 1995 budget showdown, only to have the dems go along with the same budget proposals the following year.

He's a gutless little turd.

 

[whitehall]

There's that word again...despise. A lot of hatred on the left.

 

[mskafka]

There's that word again...despise. A lot of hatred on the left.

I'm not sure if you read her entire post, but she is not left.

 

[JoeB131]

You thought wrong.

He's been revolting me that long. I wasn't sure of the year until I found that quote. I knew it was 1998 or earlier. 1998 was the year that Henry Hyde joined him on my list of Republicans who were turning me into a Democrat. I remembered 1998 because of the impeachment. If Bush hadn't come along and spoken of "compassionate conservatism", I would probably be a Democrat now. Or at least an Independent.

In recent years when Newt has been spoken of as sort of a grand old gent of the party, and an ideas man, I've tried to appreciate him more. But it seemed like every third or fourth time I heard him speak he would say something which made me glad that he couldn't possibly ever seriously make a run for the presidency. Like how he talked during the "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy. Making Nazi references. I was so glad that with all his baggage it was practically impossible for him to try for the GOP nomination.

.... and here we are.

His debate performances were good enough to make me think I could be okay with him until how he went all OWS on Romney. And yesterday I was still trying to be okay with him. But today, as I read about the SC results and reacted before I had a chance to filter my feelings, well ... it was a miserable feeling.

If he's the GOP nominee I'll root for him because I don't want Barack Obama to make any more Supreme Court appointments. But I don't think he can win. I think that too many people will have the same revulsion I felt and check the box for the clean-cut young man with the lovely family who may not be perfect but who hasn't screwed up as bad as some people thought he would and now has four years of experience in the office.

The whole right wing demagogued the GZM issue, so I don't hold that against him. (I thought it was a silly issue, myself, but there it is.)

You see, I found the whole "Compassionate Conservativism" talk to be kind of offensive. It usually means, "The government isn't doing enough for you" that sort of admits the welfare state is a good idea.

You see, where I come from the Democrats want as many of us to be dependent on government as possible, and the Republicans want us all to be compliant little wage slaves to make douchebags like Romney richer. I honestly wish there was a third party that demanded fair treatment for all workers (not just the ones in unions), but still implored people that hard work was a virtue.

I think Gingrich is hitting that mark, although not consistantly and not with a clear message.

To go to the case you talked about, this was exactly the welfare state gone wrong. A woman who had four kids by three different guys was butchered by a her boyfriend (and father of the unborn child) so he could give her cousin a baby that she could use to keep a "baby daddy" in her life.

The very idea that the word "baby-daddy" has entered the venacular of our society is part of the problem.

Now, for Gingrich going all OWS. the thing is, he has a point. The guys on Wall Street have had all the sensitivity to the problems of 1780's French Bourbons or 1910's Russian Romanovs. Things are bad for a lot of people, their missteps have caused a lot of it, but as long as they are fat and happy, who cares about the rest of us? You don't have to be shitting in a park to realize that this is wrong and kind of offensive.

People like Romney are really part of the problem, destroying good paying jobs and replacing them with thankless "McJobs".

 

[JoeB131]

There's that word again...despise. A lot of hatred on the left.

Gonna say nice stuff about Amelia here...

No, she isn't of the left. She really thinks Romney is the best guy to carry the banner forward. I don't, and have said so and expressed my disagreements. But I find her less cynical and disingenous than a Fake Snarky who really hates conservatives, or a Toro or CaliGirl who just think the GOP is there to make the 1% (and those who want to be the 1%) richer. She really thinks Romney is the guy to do it.

And I'm supporting Gingrich, but his tendency to go off on tangents is worrisome. I'm hoping his handlers can keep him on track. (As Robert Heinlein once observed in the great novel about politics, Double Star, a politician really is a team at the end of the day.)

I also think that Gingrich has more sincerity than Romney, and more of a wonkish understanding of issues. He's not like Bush, who really relied too much on advisors and got some shitty advice.

 

[JoeB131]

my mother used welfare in order to get on her feet while she had me and my siblings..

Go fuck your stupid broadbrush.

Well, I'm happy for you.

No, seriously, but do you thank those of us who worked for a living to pay for that welfare?

Or did you just think it was something you were "entitled" to?

I've been working since I was 16. I'm going to be 50 in May. So I've spent the last 34 years paying taxes and supporting the welfare state. Instead of getting all upset with me that I'm offended that there are people who are on their third generation of welfare, maybe you should be glad I'm working to provide it to you.

Because, honestly, I don't think I'll ever be able to retire.

 

[Old Rocks]

Smith's stepfather was the head of the Republican party for that county.

Gingrich & The Susan Smith Case | | AlterNet

Newt Gingrich has gotten away with it. Again. Even after a South Carolina jury declared Susan Smith guilty of murdering her two sons, reporters are not pressing Gingrich about the Smith case. Many seem to have forgotten that nine months ago, he loudly proclaimed the infanticide to be a campaign issue. Back in early November, the motor-mouthed Gingrich had much to say about the case -- offering a treatise so wrong-headed that it's almost laughable. Except there's nothing funny about the Susan Smith tragedy...or Gingrich's attempt to exploit it for election-eve advantage. Here's what Gingrich said three days before last November's election -- in response to an Associated Press reporter who asked him how the campaign was going: "Slightly more moving our way. I think that the mother killing the two children in South Carolina vividly reminds every American how sick the society is getting and how much we need to change things." Gingrich concluded, "The only way you get change is to vote Republican. That's the message for the last three days."

During the nine days that Susan Smith had the country hunting for a nonexistent black carjacker, Russell urged nationwide prayer for the two missing kids: "All we can do is pray. This is a nightmare." A prominent businessman and stockbroker, Russell married Smith's mom after she divorced Smith's dad (who later committed suicide). From the age of six, Russell raised Susan Smith in an upper-middle-class, church-going home. Gingrich's campaign comments notwithstanding, the home was free of counterculture and welfare-state influences. But Susan Smith attempted suicide at age 13, and at age 15 told authorities that her stepdad had been sexually molesting her for at least a year. Her mother helped talk her out of pursuing charges against Russell. (At age 18, she attempted suicide again.) The child-abuse case against the well-connected businessman smells of a cover-up. It's not known exactly how long the molestation went on, because the case file mysteriously vanished. And Susan Smith was not even represented in court by a lawyer or guardian, as required for minors. The social-service worker who investigated the molestation testified at the murder trial that although Russell admitted the abuse and agreed to seek counseling, she was "concerned" that law enforcement closed the case so quickly. Whatever counseling Russell underwent had little impact. The murder trial revealed that he was still having sex with his stepdaughter as recently as two months before she killed her kids. While nothing can begin to excuse the horrendous act of drowning children in a lake, it's clear that Susan Smith suffered far more trauma in her youth than any girl should have to endure. And most of the trauma was inflicted -- not by McGovernik Democrats or welfare bureaucrats -- but by an abusive stepfather who publicly championed "family values" and "school prayer" as partisan Republican issues. The truth is that sexual abuse of children in the home is widespread -- and crosses all ideological lines. It's also true that the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act was dismembered this year by Gingrich-led "pro-family" forces in the House. Newt Gingrich should be pressed to discuss these realities. After all, he's the one who originally declared the Smith case in play as a political football. Journalists shouldn't let him simply drop the ball at his convenience. Here's a question that should be posed: Mr. Gingrich, were you wrong to try to politicize this tragedy, especially when you hadn't a clue what the facts were? And let's not forget Gingrich's McCarthy-like effort in 1992 to link the Democratic platform to Woody Allen, then in the news for his affair with the 21-year-old daughter of his longtime companion, Mia Farrow. Would it be fair politics, someone should ask Gingrich, for Democrats to denounce Republicans today as the "Beverly Russell party"? Currently talking up a storm on his book tour, Newt Gingrich is getting the red carpet treatment on America's biggest talkshows. It would be refreshing to see an interviewer confront the Speaker of the House on his past effort to lay Susan Smith's murdered kids at the feet of the Democratic Party.

 

[JoeB131]

So Susan Smith, like almost every other murderer, tries to blame others for her actions, and that's the fault of the GOP, how again?

Sorry, man, the fact that the family has disintigrated under a constant 50 year assault by popular culture doesn't become less of a truth because none of us are immune.

 

[mskafka]

my mother used welfare in order to get on her feet while she had me and my siblings..

Go fuck your stupid broadbrush.

Well, I'm happy for you.

No, seriously, but do you thank those of us who worked for a living to pay for that welfare?

Or did you just think it was something you were "entitled" to?

I've been working since I was 16. I'm going to be 50 in May. So I've spent the last 34 years paying taxes and supporting the welfare state. Instead of getting all upset with me that I'm offended that there are people who are on their third generation of welfare, maybe you should be glad I'm working to provide it to you.

Because, honestly, I don't think I'll ever be able to retire.

He was a child and it wasn't his choice. In this case, I don't think that a thanks is warranted from him. I mean no disrespect. Lots of people fall down and need a helping hand from time to time. That's what it's there for.

No, it was never meant to be taken advantage of by able-bodied workers. Plasma, there's no shame in asking for help. Your mother had a decision to make. It's okay. That's what we pay taxes for.

 

[mskafka]

I'm on FMLA (thank you Robert Reich) because I was recently diagnosed with a nasty disease. But God willing, I'll go back to work. If not right away, I might need some assistance, until I can find a job that I can physically do. I've paid into the system for 19 years. Again, that's what it's there for.

 

[JoeB131]

He was a child and it wasn't his choice. In this case, I don't think that a thanks is warranted from him. I mean no disrespect. Lots of people fall down and need a helping hand from time to time. That's what it's there for.

No, it was never meant to be taken advantage of by able-bodied workers. Plasma, there's no shame in asking for help. Your mother had a decision to make. It's okay. That's what we pay taxes for.

But that is often the case. I have no problem if Plasma's mom was in a situation where a man walked out on her and several kids, or he died, and she relied on welfare until she sorted herself out. that is, as you say, what it is there for. And for people who find themselves unable to work, due to disease, it should be there for them as well.

But at the end of the day, it is charity. Not an entitlement. I have no problem helping people out. Even people who've wronged me. (Like the lady who was a professional rival at my last job, but when she eventually got fired, I helped her find a new one.)

It's the notion of "You owe me!" that offends me about the welfare state.

 

[mskafka]

Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act-I'll have to read about this. Never heard of it.

 

[Toro]

So Susan Smith, like almost every other murderer, tries to blame others for her actions, and that's the fault of the GOP, how again?

Sorry, man, the fact that the family has disintigrated under a constant 50 year assault by popular culture doesn't become less of a truth because none of us are immune.

KNOCK! KNOCK!

Hello! Is anybody in there?!

In 1994, just a few days before the midterm elections, a deranged woman named Susan Smith drowned her two young sons. Gingrich, at the time, made infanticide a campaign issue and publicly equated Smith's murders with the values of the Democratic Party. Gingrich told the AP, "The mother killing her two children in South Carolina vividly reminds every American how sick the society is getting and how much we have to have change. I think people want to change and the only way you get change is to vote Republican."

The Washington Monthly

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Is this Newt 6.0?

 

[mskafka]

He was a child and it wasn't his choice. In this case, I don't think that a thanks is warranted from him. I mean no disrespect. Lots of people fall down and need a helping hand from time to time. That's what it's there for.

No, it was never meant to be taken advantage of by able-bodied workers. Plasma, there's no shame in asking for help. Your mother had a decision to make. It's okay. That's what we pay taxes for.

But that is often the case. I have no problem if Plasma's mom was in a situation where a man walked out on her and several kids, or he died, and she relied on welfare until she sorted herself out. that is, as you say, what it is there for. And for people who find themselves unable to work, due to disease, it should be there for them as well.

But at the end of the day, it is charity. Not an entitlement. I have no problem helping people out. Even people who've wronged me. (Like the lady who was a professional rival at my last job, but when she eventually got fired, I helped her find a new one.)

It's the notion of "You owe me!" that offends me about the welfare state.

I understand and respect your opinion. Not everyone on welfare feels entitled. It seems to me that it would be a very humbling experience. It's probably downright mortifying to some.

 

[uscitizen]

Gingritch just another cog in the same gear that gave us GWB.