17 year old shot in Britain....where they have extreme gun control...

Discussion in 'Europe' started by 2aguy, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Now the truth....

    Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


    Police
    and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

    Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

    The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

    The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

    Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

    Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

    “Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

    The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


    Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

    Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

    He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

    Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

    “We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
    ==========



    U.S. vs U.K. - Crime/Murder - iGeek

    • If you look at the (the blue line): Each time the UK enacted or stiffened their gun control laws, they saw an increase in murder rates. Each new law, had no positive (and some negative) impact or an increase in murder rates. (Crime trends are even worse). (In the 1950’s they outlawed conceal and carry, in the 80’s it was shotguns, and in the late 90’s it was all pistols). So regardless of whether the UK has fewer murders than the US for cultural reasons, we know that gun control didn’t help the UK’s murder rate.
    • Next if you look at the (the red line): I overlaid (and adjusted) the U.S. murder rates with major gun control events. After JFK was shot, states and eventually the Fed (1968) passed all sorts of gun control laws — and what happened to our murder rates? They doubled from around 5 to 10 per 100K over the next decade, and they hovered there, despite all sorts of state and federal revisions, or more laws (30,000 different state/local/federal gun control laws were passed in total). There was no significant positive effects, and some observable negative ones in the U.S. due to our gun control laws.
    • Then in the late 80’s Florida passed “Must Issue” conceal and carry and castle doctrine laws were passed, and their crime/murder rates started falling noticeably. Many other states (in the South and Midwest) followed suit, with the same effects in their state murder rates, and eventually enough of those added up to start impacting the federal murder rates noticeably. Then the federal assault weapon ban expired — and if gun control worked, you’d expect an upward spike in murders, but murders trended down. Adding gun control had no positive effects, and removing them had no significant negative effects, in the U.S.!. So if you have the choice of tyranny or liberty, and there's no benefit to tyranny: opt for liberty.
    • -----


    Something important to know is that the U.K. ONS distorts their numbers for political reasons. While the rest of the world measures murder rates as people who are killed, the ONS does two things to cheat:

    1. They exclude Scotland and North Ireland from their counting: I guess when they are murdered, it isn’t as important to ONS as if Britons die. While that is only about 10% of the total population of the UK, it is significantly more of their crimes and murders.
    2. They only count murders where someone is charged with a crime. (Only between 1/2 and 3/4ths of all murders are counted).
    3. ----
    4. n the U.S. Blacks are 1/7th the population, but over 1/2 of all our murders, and Latino’s are about the same 15% of the population and are responsible for over half the rest of murders.England has virtually no blacks or latino’s (<3%). So if we correct for those demographic differences (or just compare a subset — the U.S.’s white murder rate to the UK’s white murder rate), we find that in the bright red trend line, that the U.S. has a lower murder rate than the U.K.

      Racist:Now around this time, people that can’t handle the facts or truth, start trying to distract by claiming either I’m racist, or this data is racist. But data is not making judgements, it’s just facts.

      The problem isn’t racial in America, but it is cultural.


      Black immigrants don’t have the same murder rates as Black Americans.


      And if you dive into the groups, you find rural blacks (and whites and latinos) have lower murder rates than inner cities. It’s also not income or income equality based since rural poor have lower murder rates than urban poor -- and many richer countries have more murders/crime than many poorer ones. It's about failures of the inner city gang culture.


      So facts are facts. In the U.S. we have a lower white murder rate (but higher black murder rate) than the U.K.


      And white’s in America have higher gun ownership rates than blacks (or than whites in the U.K.) — so we know that gun control doesn’t help murder rates for whites. At least across these two countries.

      And the reason for differences among blacks in the two countries is easily explained by gang culture in the U.S.
    Conclusion
    Anyone vaguely informed on gun control issues knows is that the U.S. does not have a gun problem.

    • Whites and Asian are highly responsible with guns, and have a lower murder rate than almost all of Europe and the OECD countries. We have a very specific problem: democrats, blacks and latino gang-members drag our murder and crime rates averages up.
    • The UK has a higher white murder rate, but they use clubs and knives rather than guns. Since I’m pretty sure most people don’t want to be stabbed or beaten to death, the important factor is whether you’re murdered or not (not the tool the murderer uses), right?
    Another thing gun-controller advocates either don’t realize (or do, and lie about) is as bad as the U.S. is at murders or violent crime -- the UK is worse despite their gun control. England alone has something like 600 murdersby knife per year (and 26,370 knife crimes). Compare that to only 1,500 for the U.S., with over 5 times the population. Home invasion robberies, aggravated assault, violent rape, and stabbings are worse in the UK than in the U.S. And that's BEFORE you correct for race and
     
  2. NoNukes
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    NoNukes Gold Member

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    That was ONE shooting of ONE person
     
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  3. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Gun crime is up 4%, knife murder is also up...changing demographics is making Britain more violent, and it was already more violent than the U.S....
     
  4. Tommy Tainant
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    Tommy Tainant Gold Member

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    This is the truth.
    [​IMG]

    From this we learn that guns do not make you safer.
     
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  5. progressive hunter
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    progressive hunter Gold Member

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    but as usual you left out the fact that anywhere between 500K to 3 million times a yr guns are used to stop crime and save lives,,,

    so its a fact that guns make us safer,,,
     
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  6. Augustine_
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    Augustine_ Senior Member

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    Without gun control that would happen a lot more
     
  7. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    This is the truth...

    Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


    -- gun murder down 49%

    --gun crime down 75%

    --violent crime down 72%

    Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

    Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

    The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

    More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

    Actual Result:

    In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

    The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....


    In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



    Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



    Britain...

    Anti gun Hypothesis for Britain....

    More Guns = More Gun Crime

    Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.

    They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...

    Your Theory again....

    More guns = More Gun Crime

    Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.

    When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
    -------


    Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

    When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.
     
  8. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Except for the real world where the opposite happened here in the U.S.......so...you really have nothing...

    Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


    -- gun murder down 49%

    --gun crime down 75%

    --violent crime down 72%

    Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

    Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

    GUN WATCH: Top Three Rated "Safe States" are Constitutional Carry States

    US News and World Report rates the states for public safety. The rating takes both property crime and violent crime into account. The ratings use the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) data from 2017 for the article this year, as the latest data available.

    The top three states for public safety this year are Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire. All three are Constitutional Carry states, which means no permit is required to carry a loaded handgun in most public places, openly, or concealed. That was the state of the law in the nation when the Constitution was ratified on 4 March, 1789. Constitutional carry existed in all states for the first four decades of the Republic. Then states and the courts started chipping away at the Second Amendment.


     
  9. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    And how do you explain away the fact that Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack...saving lives from rape, robbery and murder? This is according to the CDC.....and the Department of Justice puts the number at 1.5 million times a year....

    Kinda blows a big hole in your argument...
     
  10. Tommy Tainant
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    Tommy Tainant Gold Member

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    On the extreme left of the graph is a column representing all the murders in the US. We can clearly see from this that the US is safer than the rest of the world because you have guns.
     
    • Funny and Agree!! Funny and Agree!! x 1

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