$16 Million Fine for Building Pond on Private Property

[longknife]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

 

[nuhuh]

But he didn't just build a pond.

"In fact, the Army Corps of Engineers and the EPA found that in order to create the pond, he constructed a dam on Six Mile Creek, a waterway deemed by the EPA to be a tributary of the Blacks Fork River, which in turn is a tributary of the Green River, which is a “navigable, interstate water of the United States.”

Building the dam constituted a “discharge of pollutants” into “waters of the United States,” according to the EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers, and thus required a permit that Johnson did not have, or seek. As with the Lucas case, EPA officials say that Johnson received multiple warnings before any enforcement actions were taken.

The EPA rules regarding discharging pollutants into waterways are based on a substantial body of evidence showing that water quality and flow in tributaries and wetlands can affect the water found downstream. In an extensive review of that evidence regarding connectivity of waterways, the EPA notes:

EPA, January 2015: The scientific literature unequivocally demonstrates that streams, individually or cumulatively, exert a strong influence on the integrity of downstream waters. All tributary streams, including perennial, intermittent, and ephemeral streams, are physically, chemically, and biologically connected to downstream rivers via channels and associated alluvial deposits where water and other materials are concentrated, mixed, transformed, and transported."
Muddying the Clean Water Act

 

[RodISHI]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

 

[longknife]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

 

[Camp]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

 

[nuhuh]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

I didn't do anything except add facts to your potpourri of bullshit. The man built a dam not a pond, that is a huge difference.

 

[Asclepias]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

Whats more amazing is your attempt to pretend the guy is some victim when he failed to get the correct permits. despite being warned.

 

[mamooth]

Remember, Obama created the water laws that have been in place for over a century. He used his time-traveling powers to accomplish that.

 

[longknife]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

Whats more amazing is your attempt to pretend the guy is some victim when he failed to get the correct permits. despite being warned.

He applied for AND RECEIVED local and state permits BEFORE he created the pond.

And, what evidence do YOU have that this is somehow going to pollute water for tens of thousands? If the pond is infused with natural products/feces, just how far along does it break down and dissipate?

Have YOU ever lived on a farm or ranch? Do YOU have any idea of the importance of the pond? And, perhaps if will hold back some water that could somehow cause damage downstream. Are YOU the expet?

 

[mamooth]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

 

[Asclepias]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

Whats more amazing is your attempt to pretend the guy is some victim when he failed to get the correct permits. despite being warned.

He applied for AND RECEIVED local and state permits BEFORE he created the pond.

And, what evidence do YOU have that this is somehow going to pollute water for tens of thousands? If the pond is infused with natural products/feces, just how far along does it break down and dissipate?

Have YOU ever lived on a farm or ranch? Do YOU have any idea of the importance of the pond? And, perhaps if will hold back some water that could somehow cause damage downstream. Are YOU the expet?

No. He didnt apply for or get the correct permits.

What are you talking about? I didnt say anything about pollutants. However, if the people at the EPA say it will disperse pollutants I'm believing them over you.

Your last sentences are examples of false logic. Basically..."you never lived on a ranch so you cant say the guy never applied for the correct permits". It fails the logic test.

 

[RodISHI]

This is the point where government do-good regulations go beyond American freedoms and personal rights. How does a government agency have the power to stop a farmer from constructing a stock pond?



He's taking them to court – and it'll cost him lots and lots of $$$ he'll never get back. When do we elect representatives who will put a stop to this?



Read more @ Doug Ross @ Journal: Andy Johnson owes the #EPA more than $16 million in fines because he built a small pond on his land

A lot of people will ignore this and that is truly a shame. I wish him well hopefully he won't end up losing his property over this or get so disgusted with it all he sells out end.

I hope you notice the attempt to justify this by our intrepid socialist/leftist nuhu

This here google map is property area of what family members owned. When the children were young we used to float down that creek. It was pristine. You could see the bottom everywhere on the creek.

My family owned the majority of the vacant land surrounding the one little fish pond area that is west of the map marker Big Spring. The land up to and over the canyon wall above Big Spring. They also at one time owned houses in what was called the Norwood subdivision on Norwood Drive; this is also to the west of the canyon wall.

During the time they owned this beautiful area (1980 forward) fish farms were developed both above their property and below their property. The problems that ensued of pollution from lack of settling ponds for all the fish shit. By 1990 one could no longer see the bottom of the creek and it was no longer worth floating down.

Property where the houses and lots were, were sold but the land was kept. A new owner purchased the little fish farm that set in the middle of my families land and they also bought a house in the subdivision that set directly above the west edge of the land. So here it was happened next. Dad would not sell the land. The guy that had to drive through dad's land to get to his little fish farm was a pot head and a spoil little rich asshole. Another guy that bought a house from dad on the north side of Norwood Drive was a retired federal employee (also a bishop in the Mormon church) and he did not believe that my family should have a right to build another house on their vacant land in the subdivided area or even sell those lots. Those two got together and schemed to reek havoc in any manner they could for our family. The lil' spoiled rich kid put a four inch latch and hook irrigation line over the edge of his property running onto my dad's property. It washed an area into the hillside on the west that you could easily fit several semi trucks in at one small area near the entrance point of the water being diverted onto the land. Dad of course hired an attorney trying to get this stopped but the judges said, "Nothing that cannot be solved with a payment of money". We were all going WTF, you cannot replace virgin soil and receive the same compaction with mere money. Not to ignore the fact that there was a large fish kill of the natural fish in the creek (that would most likely include the natural clams growing in the creek). Anyhow between these two assholes they kept my family in court for years trying to defend their property rights and it was no big deal to the attorneys or all the judges who all got a paycheck.
A few years after this all started while the asshole was purposely running an irrigation line directly onto dad's property I went to the local DEQ offices. So here a new thing. This guy I spoke with who had sent letters claiming he was going to give out a fine of ten grand a day for the pollution 'we' were causing threaten me and started giving me his best intimidation crap. I was standing in his office door when he did this and felt a little indignant about it. It was not intentional but I was fairly loud when I responded to him. He'd attempted to grab me and silence me which scared me and I was even louder when I told him I would not accept his threats, his bullying or intimidation tactics. By then the whole office was staring at this very angry fat bureaucrat. Anyhow the whole affair sucked and it cost my family more than any amount of money could ever replace. The land was sold after years of dad being in court and the fish hatcheries are still polluting from upstream and downstream. Last I heard the former Forestry dumb ass ended up burning weeds (on land formerly own by family) and burned down the house he had purchased from my family. Not sure what happened to the pothead.

That is a portion of the type of corruption that goes on and just a tad of the whole story on that issue. So I am sure there is more to this story with the guy and the pond but hey I am looking at this point. If he has no intentions of polluting water that serves someone down the line 'what's the big deal?'

Google Maps

 

[RodISHI]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

Dams merely hold a specified amount of water. The water after filling the area still flows.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

But the same EPA is allowed to dump gigatons of toxic chemicals into the waters

 

[jknowgood]

All the people defending this was salient the other week when the epa polluted a river.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Why would it destroy the resource?
Once the pond is full the water will continue to flow.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Do you understand that you don't own the surface water flowing through your property, you can't just damn it and grab it, and that it's always been that way?

You dumbass! Once the pond is full the water flows over a spillway and continues to flow down stream.

 

[RodISHI]

SHOCKING!!! A single property owner is prevented from destroying the water resources for hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens down stream from the individuals property. Where has freedom gone?

Why would it destroy the resource?
Once the pond is full the water will continue to flow.

Not only that if it is done properly it can be an advantage to the integrity of the water source.

 

[Lakhota]

This thread reminds me of another selfish freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This thread reminds me of another freeloader - Cliven Bundy.

And you remind me why the indians never got past the stone age.