11 Facts About Obamacare That No Conservative Knows About, Cares About, Or Will Read

[Papageorgio]

If you sell your home you are taxed 3.8% to pay for the ACA.. so don't sell your house cause that could add up and that's in addition to all your other closing costs.


OBAMATAX

Oh, Fuckstain. You're going to have to do something different if you want to horrify we Liberals about the ACA. Calling it a tax doesn't really effect us. Because you know, we don't have the mentality of a 12 year old when it comes to taxes.

The liberals aren't the ones that Would change their vote, it would be moderates.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Actually it would be cheaper for you to take the tax penalty and then get health care only when you need it.

6.3% of $29,000 is $1827. So the $750 is a much better deal. I figure most smart people will drop their health care, pay the $750 every year and just buy the insurance when it is needed. This should help all Americans out. $62.50 a month is a preety good deal for health care. This is going to work out well for the American people.

You're not including the TAX CREDIT he'll get. MORON.

Wow, right to the name calling, tells us a lot about you. How much is the average cost Per month of a healthcare plan? About $600 a month or $7200 a year, so the tax credit brings it down to $3200, he doesn't need to pay that much because of the cap, so he is only paying $1827, which is his cap. Hmmmm.... $750 still looks cheaper.

$750 is cheaper? Brilliant in depth analysis, except you forget one thing. YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT, SHIT FOR BRAINS.

Which is cheaper? Paying $900 for a brand new laptop - or paying $400 for nothing? When you go to get a lap-top next time you'll just hand the salesman $400 for nothing in return, and walk out thinking you got the better deal because its cheaper?

 

[Papageorgio]

This? HYSTERICAL!!!

Dear Charles;

Get a second job. Sell plasma. Spend less money.

Or ask Obama. Y'all expect him to honor past debts with not enough money coming in (i.e., no taxing the rich, dammit!!)

Cheaper not to pay for the healthcare and pay the tax, then get insurance the day someone gets sick, probably cost $600 but you,get the tax credit to offset it.

Cheaper for whom, exactly? You'd just be saddling tax payers with YOUR debt. Isn't that what you Conservatives consider a mortal sin?

Jesus, this ACA thing has you guys all ass-backwards. It's fun to watch.

Just pointing out the flaws system. You really think there is a big difference to the government between $1827 and $750? Would it be a big difference to a family of 4, who only makes $29,000? Do you not think the taxpayer is going to pick up the cost either way?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If you sell your home you are taxed 3.8% to pay for the ACA.. so don't sell your house cause that could add up and that's in addition to all your other closing costs.


OBAMATAX

Only on profit in excess of $250k/$500k, MORON

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hatred! Obama bad!

 

[Papageorgio]

You're not including the TAX CREDIT he'll get. MORON.

Wow, right to the name calling, tells us a lot about you. How much is the average cost Per month of a healthcare plan? About $600 a month or $7200 a year, so the tax credit brings it down to $3200, he doesn't need to pay that much because of the cap, so he is only paying $1827, which is his cap. Hmmmm.... $750 still looks cheaper.

$750 is cheaper? Brilliant in depth analysis, except you forget one thing. YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT, SHIT FOR BRAINS.

Which is cheaper? Paying $900 for a brand new laptop - or paying $400 for nothing? When you go to get a lap-top next time you'll just hand the salesman $400 for nothing in return, and walk out thinking you got the better deal because its cheaper?

You can go to a private carrier pick up the insurance only when you need it, it isn't rocket science, if the cover pre existing conditions, you get it when you need it.

Enjoy your laptop, I was always told that people,with limited people skills and intelligence usually resorted to your type of name calling.

 

[regent]

The health bill, if it survives, will not be same in a few years. These politically contested bills, if passed at all, are compromises and as such are far from perfect. As time goes by Obama-care will be changed, improved, made to fit the health care needs and soon will become indispensible. One only need to look at the history of Social Security to see the pattern.
As a nation, in many respects, America seems usually late in programs that are for its citizens. Germany passed a health care program in the 1890's and other nations soon followed. And even a hundred years later the fight in America is still somewhat bitter. Are we a nation that greedy?

 

[Stephanie]

The health bill, if it survives, will not be same in a few years. These politically contested bills, if passed at all, are compromises and as such are far from perfect. As time goes by Obama-care will be changed, improved, made to fit the health care needs and soon will become indispensible. One only need to look at the history of Social Security to see the pattern.
As a nation, in many respects, America seems usually late in programs that are for its citizens. Germany passed a health care program in the 1890's and other nations soon followed. And even a hundred years later the fight in America is still somewhat bitter. Are we a nation that greedy?

we are a nation who people fought and died for, FREEDOM.
how dare you call that greedy, you like Germany's health care, move there

 

[BDBoop]

The health bill, if it survives, will not be same in a few years. These politically contested bills, if passed at all, are compromises and as such are far from perfect. As time goes by Obama-care will be changed, improved, made to fit the health care needs and soon will become indispensible. One only need to look at the history of Social Security to see the pattern.
As a nation, in many respects, America seems usually late in programs that are for its citizens. Germany passed a health care program in the 1890's and other nations soon followed. And even a hundred years later the fight in America is still somewhat bitter. Are we a nation that greedy?

we are a nation who people fought and died for, FREEDOM.
how dare you call that greedy, you like Germany's health care, move there

appeal to emotion

You attempted to manipulate an emotional response in place of a valid or compelling argument.

Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more. It's important to note that sometimes a logically coherent argument may inspire emotion or have an emotional aspect, but the problem and fallacy occurs when emotion is used instead of a logical argument, or to obscure the fact that no compelling rational reason exists for one's position. Everyone, bar sociopaths, is affected by emotion, and so appeals to emotion are a very common and effective argument tactic, but they're ultimately flawed, dishonest, and tend to make one's opponents justifiably emotional.

Your logical fallacy is appeal to emotion

 

[BillyV]

So what if I can't afford 6.3% of My income? I make over 29,000 and have a Family of 4. We currently have no Coverage and struggle to make payments on all our bills each month.

So tell me how Obama Care is going to help me come up with 6.3% of my income to pay for Insurance please.

Actually it would be cheaper for you to take the tax penalty and then get health care only when you need it.

6.3% of $29,000 is $1827. So the $750 is a much better deal. I figure most smart people will drop their health care, pay the $750 every year and just buy the insurance when it is needed. This should help all Americans out. $62.50 a month is a preety good deal for health care. This is going to work out well for the American people.

You're not including the TAX CREDIT he'll get. MORON.

The tax credit is how the premium gets to $1,827; it doesn't go down from there. The premium caps are accomplished through advanceable tax credits.

Per the Congressional Research Service:

The premium credits will be provided as advanceable, refundable federal tax credits ultimately calculated through individual tax returns (although the credit payments will go directly to insurers). The credits can only be obtained by qualifying individuals who file tax returns.

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health/HlthInsPremCredits.pdf

 

[kwc57]

Oh, Social Security isn't an entitlement program. It's insurance, and all those lies about it going bankrupt? Yeah, they're lies.

Anyway...enough of the people who don't care, and yet call me haters when they neg-rep my posts simply because they can't neg-rep facts.

Now that's Horse Shit. SS was started as a pay as you go Plan, but well over Half of the money going out now, Goes to SSDI which in most cases is money going out, that was not first paid in.

And yes, with out Reforms it is indeed going bankrupt.

I just said this on another thread, but I think it fits here too.

One of the questions lost in the dynamics of most discussions is really was this the time for such a law? We are in a fiscal crisis and spending is out of control with insurmountable debt climbing to before unseen heights.

The streets were not littered with dead bodies before ACA. Medicaid was insuring the most needy of the population and many still ignore the fact that our penetrable borders are causing most of our problems.

For years, Congress has ignored the elephant in the room by allowing amnesty to criminals who came across these borders illegally, usurped our medical services beyond their bounds.

If all administrations and Congresses had taken this issue seriously, we wouldn't be facing the medical crisis we have now. Instead the present administration lends a helping hand to illegals, refuses to help states with ICE commitments and leads us down the path of even more unsustainable medical demands than we currently have.

JMO.

The answer is no.

Gallup: Only 6 Percent of Americans Say Health Care is the Top U.S. Problem | CNSNews.com

 

[kwc57]

By forcing people that elect not to buy it to actually buy it, it drives down the cost of health insurance. That's sort of the whole point.

You don't understand the first thing about economics, do you? If the idea is to reduce the cost of health care the last thing you want to do is give people a way to avoid paying for health care. Buying insurance is a way to avoid paying for health by passing the cost of said care onto another party. This will increase the demand for health care, but not increase the supply of health care providers. That will drive costs up, not down.



Actually, it doesn't. What this will do is reduce the costs for the small group of people that use a high amount of health care. Insurance companies compensate for this by raising the price for everyone else. Most people actually end up paying more. I actually explained all of this a couple of years ago right here on this board, you should take the time to look it up and see where you are making your mistakes.



How would a single payer system reduce the cost of health care? Did a single payer system reduce the costs of wars at some point and I missed the memo?

The problem here is not that my asshole puckers when you mention stupid ideas, it doesn't. The problem is that the idea is stupid.



It is a tax, I have a Supreme Court decision that backs me up, all you have is capital letters and the claim that the Supreme Court is run by Fox.



No, because it doesn't, it just means they pay a little but less money to the government.



I don't have a side, this is just me. That said, my fracking side opposed the mandate in the first place because we realized way back then that the mandate is not a way to reduce health care costs.

By the way, what the Heritage Foundation proposed was coverage for catastrophic illness or injury, not a requirement that everyone buy insurance that covers routine medical care. They also proposed that everyone would get a credit to purchase health insurance of some type, and that refusal to purchase said insurance would mean a loss of that credit. That is about as far from the mandate we have today as it is possible to get.

Not to mention that the mandate was not actually original to them, they just stole the idea.



Is it discrimination to charge a person who has an accident every week more for his car insurance?

Of course not, it is common sense.

Having a bunch of people on your side doesn't make you right, it just makes them wrong.



Not me.



I generally ignore them, unlike your side.



The point, moonbat, is they have to make a profit to stay in business. If they can't do that by cutting fraud because the government doesn't let them spend money on cutting fraud they are going to do it by making money off the fraud.



Wann bet?



It sounded like you were talking with a shoe in your mouth.



Of course you do.



Strange thing, since insurance companies are all evil, and for profit hospitals are all evil, and all either of them care about is making money, if these things actually worked in the real world companies would be using them to help make more of their evil profits. The government would not have to come in and tell evil companies that are only interested in cutting costs and overcharging people to cut costs in order to save money, would they?

Wanna think your position through again, or are you one of those people that is always right?



You haven't had a fact in your post yet.



I have to be perceptive?

You mentioned Romney, I am glad you brought him up.

Here are a few facts, Massachusetts spends more of its budget on Medicare than any other state, they also have the fastest growing per capita health care cost in the country. I think that makes Romneycare a complete failure, but feel free to point ot it as an example of how Obamacare is going to cut costs.



More facts for you, Ezra Klein has a BA in political science from UCLA. He doesn't have the education to understand complex subjects, and probably struggles with Algebra. Despite that, I would have a better chance of explaining what he got wrong to him than I have with you.

The idea behind expanding health insurance to more people is not to reduce the cost, everyone, including Klein, knows that. The mandate was a bone thrown to insurance companies so they wouldn't fight the requirement to cover pre existing conditions. The sole intent was for them to make money. That is reality, and denying that means you are the one ignoring facts.

It's not a massive tax hike; nor will it balloon health care costs. It's far from perfect, but until we get single payer, it's a great fucking start.

It is a tax, and a new one. How big it is is open to debate, but arguing that a new tax is not a tax hike is really stupid.

Romneycare ballooned costs, and still is almost a decade later. Yet, somehow, Obamacare is magically going to have the opposite effect. Believing that is not just a denial of facts, it is flat out delusional and should require an automatic psychiatric examination.

If this is your idea of a great start I would hate to be around anything you call an unmitigated failure.

Oh. I see. So we don't agree with facts. Okay. No need to continue, broseph.

I'd tell you to quit while you're ahead.....but you aren't ahead. Just quit. You're getting royally pwned.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wow, right to the name calling, tells us a lot about you. How much is the average cost Per month of a healthcare plan? About $600 a month or $7200 a year, so the tax credit brings it down to $3200, he doesn't need to pay that much because of the cap, so he is only paying $1827, which is his cap. Hmmmm.... $750 still looks cheaper.

$750 is cheaper? Brilliant in depth analysis, except you forget one thing. YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT, SHIT FOR BRAINS.

Which is cheaper? Paying $900 for a brand new laptop - or paying $400 for nothing? When you go to get a lap-top next time you'll just hand the salesman $400 for nothing in return, and walk out thinking you got the better deal because its cheaper?

You can go to a private carrier pick up the insurance only when you need it, it isn't rocket science, if the cover pre existing conditions, you get it when you need it.

I'm pretty sure Obamacare doesn't require insurers to issue policies that only last as long as a doctor visit. But maybe you know better.

Enjoy your laptop, I was always told that people,with limited people skills and intelligence usually resorted to your type of name calling.

Bwahh.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Actually it would be cheaper for you to take the tax penalty and then get health care only when you need it.

6.3% of $29,000 is $1827. So the $750 is a much better deal. I figure most smart people will drop their health care, pay the $750 every year and just buy the insurance when it is needed. This should help all Americans out. $62.50 a month is a preety good deal for health care. This is going to work out well for the American people.

You're not including the TAX CREDIT he'll get. MORON.

The tax credit is how the premium gets to $1,827; it doesn't go down from there. The premium caps are accomplished through advanceable tax credits.

Per the Congressional Research Service:

The premium credits will be provided as advanceable, refundable federal tax credits ultimately calculated through individual tax returns (although the credit payments will go directly to insurers). The credits can only be obtained by qualifying individuals who file tax returns.

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health/HlthInsPremCredits.pdf

Fair enough.

What I don't get is why Charles_man's kids aren't covered by Medicaid.

 

[BillyV]

You're not including the TAX CREDIT he'll get. MORON.

The tax credit is how the premium gets to $1,827; it doesn't go down from there. The premium caps are accomplished through advanceable tax credits.

Per the Congressional Research Service:

The premium credits will be provided as advanceable, refundable federal tax credits ultimately calculated through individual tax returns (although the credit payments will go directly to insurers). The credits can only be obtained by qualifying individuals who file tax returns.

http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health/HlthInsPremCredits.pdf

Fair enough.

What I don't get is why Charles_man's kids aren't covered by Medicaid.

Because $29,000 of income is 200% of the poverty level; in most states you aren't eligible for Medicaid unless you are only at 100% of poverty level (which the ACA increases to 133%, for those states that elect to participate). However, your point is well taken; I would look into plans that would at least cover my kids unless I had absolutely no way to survive otherwise. But in America, that's a personal decision (or at least it used to be).

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The tax credit is how the premium gets to $1,827; it doesn't go down from there. The premium caps are accomplished through advanceable tax credits.

Per the Congressional Research Service:

Fair enough.

What I don't get is why Charles_man's kids aren't covered by Medicaid.

Because $29,000 of income is 200% of the poverty level; in most states you aren't eligible for Medicaid unless you are only at 100% of poverty level (which the ACA increases to 133%, for those states that elect to participate). However, your point is well taken; I would look into plans that would at least cover my kids unless I had absolutely no way to survive otherwise. But in America, that's a personal decision (or at least it used to be).

If someone makes the personal decision to not get their kids covered, do you think they'll change their mind when their kid needs life saving emergency room treatment? Funny how that "personal decision" then becomes a decision that costs the taxpayer and private business money.

 

[GHook93]

1. By 2022, the Congressional Budget Office estimates (pdf) the Affordable Care Act will have extended coverage to 33 million Americans who would otherwise be uninsured.

LOL, so in 10 years the plan will be a success! LOL, why wouldn't it be right away. These projects and the charge mean nothing they are bullshit. If they are off in even 2013 no one will remember or give a fuck. Project my ass!

2. Families making less than 133 percent of the poverty line — that’s about $29,000 for a family of four — will be covered through Medicaid. Between 133 percent and 400 percent of the poverty line — $88,000 for a family of four – families will get tax credits on a sliding scale to help pay for private insurance.

The middle class already gets a tax credit for medical. I max it for my family of 6 each year. However, what the fuck is a tax credit going to do when my premiums, deductibles (which have already skyrocket 2 years before this Obamination goes into place) skyrocket and all my benefits get cut. THAT WILL BE THE INEVITABLE SIDE-EFFECT OF ALL TENS OF MILLIONS OF UNINSURABLE AND NO HEALTHY PEOPLE (WHO WILL OPT OUT PAY $95 TAX IN 2012 AND $695 IN 2016 AND BEYOND AND BECOME FREE-RIDERS GETTING INSURANCE WHEN THEY GET SICK OR INJURED!!!)!!!

3. For families making less than 400 percent of the poverty line, premiums are capped. So, between 150% and 200% of the poverty line, for instance, families won’t have to pay more than 6.3 percent of their income in premiums. Between 300 percent and 400 percent, they won’t have to pay more than 9.5 percent. This calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation will let you see the subsidies and the caps for different families at different income levels.

Good job Big O you buy votes again, but sell out the middle class!

4. When the individual mandate is fully phased-in, those who can afford coverage — which is defined as insurance costing less than 8 percent of their annual income — but choose to forgo it will have to pay either $695 or 2.5 percent of the annual income, whichever is greater.

NOT TRUE!!! In 2014 it's $95. In 2016 it's 2.5% or $695, whichever is LESS!!! Look it up

5. Small businesses that have fewer than 10 employees, average wages beneath $25,000, and that provide insurance for their workers will get a 50 percent tax credit on their contribution. The tax credit reaches up to small businesses with up to 50 employees and average wages of $50,000, though it gets smaller as the business get bigger and richer. The credit lasts for two years, though many think Congress will be pressured to extend it, which would raise the long-term cost of the legislation.

Yep this will help small businesses hire people!

6. Insurance companies are not allowed to discriminated based on preexisting conditions. They are allowed to discriminate based “on age (limited to 3 to 1 ratio), premium rating area, family composition, and tobacco use (limited to 1.5. to 1 ratio).”

This is great and EVERYONE KNOWS about it, but not sure how only adding these people to the payrolls will (since the health people will be free loaders) will NOT bankrupt the insurance industry?

7. Starting in 2018, the law imposes a 35 percent tax on employer-provided health plans that exceed $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage. The idea is a kind of roundabout second-best to capping the tax code’s (currently unlimited) deduction for employer-provided heath insurance. The policy idea is to give employers that much more reason to avoid expensive insurance policies and thus give insurers that much more reason to hold costs down.

Leftist media bullshit speak for I don't want to call it another tax on business, but that's what it is and it won't help businesses hire people!

8. The law requires insurers to spend between 80 and 85 percent of every premium dollar on medical care (as opposed to administration, advertising, etc). If insurers exceed this threshold, they have to rebate the excess to their customers. This policy is already in effect, and insurers are expected to rebate $1.1 billion this year.

Again, how does that not contribute to the insurers going bankrupt?

9. The law is expected to spend a bit over $1 trillion in the next 10 years. The law’s spending cuts — many of which fall on Medicare — and tax increases are expected to either save or raise a bit more than that, which is why the Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will slightly reduce the deficit. (There’s been some confusion on this point lately, but no, the CBO has not changed its mind about this.) As time goes on, the savings are projected to grow more quickly than the spending, and CBO expects that the law will cut the deficit by around a trillion dollars in its second decade. Here’s its graph, which covers the period between 2012 and 2021:


The ACA's taxes and spending cuts make it a slight deficit reduce in its first decade. (CBO)

I love how people can through out a project and say SEE SEE IT WORKS! Not FUCKING WAY THIS OBAMINATION saves money! ZERO CHANCE!!!

10. In recent years, health-care costs have slowed dramatically. Much of this is likely due to the recession. Some of it may just be chance. But there’s also evidence that the law has accelerated changes in the way the medical system delivers care, as providers prepare for the law’s efforts to move from fee-for-service to quality-based payments.

Has this also been to the doctor lately. In the last two consecutive years I had two of my childrens tonsiles removed. Same doctor, same facility, same procedure, in any out in a day and nothing exotic. Told cost in 2011 was roughly $600 more (total cost of the procedure not my part). This is a lie and he knows it!

Health insurance is going down it's going up and healthcare will ALSO skyrocket. Much like when the government got into the student loan business. College went from expense, but affordable. With the Clinton moving the Fed into the student loan business it's not INSULTINGLY EXPENSIVE and UNAFFORDABLE!!!

11. The law’s long-term success at controlling costs will likely hinge on its efforts to change the way health care is delivered, most of which have gotten very little attention. They include everything from encouraging Accountable Care Organizations to spreading medical homes to penalizing hospitals with high rates of preventable infections to creating an independent board able to quickly implement new reforms through the Medicare system. A partial list of these efforts can be found here.

Yep that will be their excuse when it FAILS!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

1. By 2022, the Congressional Budget Office estimates (pdf) the Affordable Care Act will have extended coverage to 33 million Americans who would otherwise be uninsured.

LOL, so in 10 years the plan will be a success! LOL, why wouldn't it be right away.

Any government program which does not realize its full benefit within 60 seconds of its passage is just wasteful and stupid.


Like you.

 

[Synthaholic]

Did you not read that he has a family of 4? Do you have any idea what the insurance premiums are for 4 people?

Well, that is his problem now isn't it? I did not decide for him to have a family he cannot pay for. I did not decide for him to have so many bills he cannot pay them. I did not make his mistakes nor do I care to fuck everyone else because he could not keep his dick in his pants and his wife drops crotch droppings like a crack whore. Fuck you, they make Birth Control for a reason, use it. Don't whine to me because you cannot figure out how to put on a condom or get your bitch to the abortion clinic.

You made it your problem when you voted for the idiots that support Obama's tax on the middle class.

Which tax is that, Quantum Scumbag?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Now that's Horse Shit. SS was started as a pay as you go Plan, but well over Half of the money going out now, Goes to SSDI which in most cases is money going out, that was not first paid in.

And yes, with out Reforms it is indeed going bankrupt.

I just said this on another thread, but I think it fits here too.

One of the questions lost in the dynamics of most discussions is really was this the time for such a law? We are in a fiscal crisis and spending is out of control with insurmountable debt climbing to before unseen heights.

The streets were not littered with dead bodies before ACA. Medicaid was insuring the most needy of the population and many still ignore the fact that our penetrable borders are causing most of our problems.

For years, Congress has ignored the elephant in the room by allowing amnesty to criminals who came across these borders illegally, usurped our medical services beyond their bounds.

If all administrations and Congresses had taken this issue seriously, we wouldn't be facing the medical crisis we have now. Instead the present administration lends a helping hand to illegals, refuses to help states with ICE commitments and leads us down the path of even more unsustainable medical demands than we currently have.

JMO.

The answer is no.

Gallup: Only 6 Percent of Americans Say Health Care is the Top U.S. Problem | CNSNews.com

Oh cool. A Right-Wing news organization cherry-picked data? Sweet. That totally shows that Americans don't care about our busted-ass health care system.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

1. By 2022, the Congressional Budget Office estimates (pdf) the Affordable Care Act will have extended coverage to 33 million Americans who would otherwise be uninsured.

LOL, so in 10 years the plan will be a success! LOL, why wouldn't it be right away. These projects and the charge mean nothing they are bullshit. If they are off in even 2013 no one will remember or give a fuck. Project my ass!

What are your thoughts on endless, unpaid for wars in foreign countries?