11 days "To wipe Israel out of existence"

[Yukon]

If the United States stopped providing the Jews with weapons the country (Israel) would be destroyed in a matter of days.

 

[Mr. President]

Says the man from a country Canada who could not successfully invade Israel. The canadian military is obselete and therefore so is their opinion. If all of these countries would simply repsect each others borders there would be no problems.

 

[elvis]

Stop telling them no.

I see. So, in your opinion, it's okay for an Islamic fundy regime to have nukes?

Not mine.

Pretty much.

MAD has worked for 60 years now.

Problem is, Ahmadniejad is a "12er", meaning he wants to bring about the apocalypse to bring the 12th iman of shiite islam. So picture an evangelical as president hoping for apocalypse so that Jesus will come back......

 

[Tech_Esq]

If the United States stopped providing the Jews with weapons the country (Israel) would be destroyed in a matter of days.

Because if we stopped providing them with weapons their nukes would disappear? Is that your thought troll?

 

[Tech_Esq]

So a clandestinely nuclear armed Israel will attack Iran because they believe Iran will attack them upon completion of their own clandestine nuclear weapons program?

Don't make the mistake of assuming there is parity there. Israel is a nuclear super power. They have the third largest nuclear stock pile in the world. Right behind the US and Russia. More than China and more than all of Europe put together.

The estimates I've heard is between 100 and 350 nuclear warheads. Israel has a well developed nuclear triad system patterned on the US. They have between 2 and 4 super quiet diesel submarines purchase from the Germans that are missile launch capable. Basically only the US has the means to detect them. They also have land based missiles and air launched missiles.

The mere fact Iran has a bomb, doesn't really get them in the game with Israel. It's like if we both had boats, but mine was 450 foot yacht and yours was a 21 foot bowrider. Yeah, they are both boats, but......

Oh I'm aware of this, Tech. It's a big reason why I think Israel is being more than a tad hypocritical about this.

Having nuclear arms or allowing others to have them is no place to discuss consistency of thought. At least not when you are discussing a nation's military policy. It is an existential question for Israel. As Shogun pointed out, it wouldn't take too many bombs for Israel's existence to be threatened. Thus, the calculation has been made by Israel (on several occasions and over time) that allowing a country hostile to the existence of Israel to become nuclear capable, is too dangerous to its continuance as a country to countenance. Period.

They can't afford to be wrong. It is cheaper for them to act and potentially piss off the world, than not act and risk getting nuked.

To the first world powers, a nuclear armed country is a porcupine. Far too thorny to actually risk a direct attack, so, in the existential calculus that Israel is forced to engage in, the only huge downside, is if an enemy gets a nuke. They know that no matter how pissed the first world countries get, the will never nuke Israel. If the US even marginally has Israel's back, it's a no-brainer when this calculation needs to be done as to whether to act preemptively.

In the instant case with Iran, most of the first world would be relieved (though not publicly) if Iran was disarmed. So, the true risk to Israel is greatly reduced if they decide to act.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Oh I'm aware of this, Tech. It's a big reason why I think Israel is being more than a tad hypocritical about this.

Well except for that whole, Israel is a small country and easily wiped out by few nukes, deal, you might have had a point.

Size has nothing to do with it. It's all about intent. Israel believes that Iran intends to hit them with a nuclear strike if/when they become capable of doing so. Israel's stance reeks of preemption and I'm not down with that.

Like the old saw says, "Where you stand, depends on where you sit."

You can afford to not be down wit dat. Israelis can't. If their foes get the bomb, they are all but finished. It won't do any good for the 10,000 Israelis that are left after 5 nukes hit their country to appeal to the UN for redress of their grievance about this "horrific act of violence" perpetrated upon the Israeli people.

Most Israelis will be dead or dying. Sure, Israel will be able to ensure that Iran pays 10 fold for every Israeli life they take, but in the final analysis, most Israelis will be dead. And, 10 dead Iranians does not create one live Israeli. It only multiplies the death toll.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Stop telling them no.

I see. So, in your opinion, it's okay for an Islamic fundy regime to have nukes?

Not mine.

Pretty much.

MAD has worked for 60 years now.

Mutually Assured Destruction only works when both countries share the same cultural value of life. It barely worked with the Russians because of the differences that exist between our cultures. They were much more comfortable with the calculus that involves a few million fewer Russians than we were with a few million fewer Americans.

With cultures that encourage and peach suicidal action as an article of faith, MAD would be foolish to engage in. Especially when there are extranational advantages that given country may encourage bad behavior. Consider the following.

(This example doesn't work with Iran, because they are culturally Persian not Arab.)

Imagine Morocco (or some other Arab country) gets the bomb. Because of Pan-Arabism, the current government of Morocco may come to the thinking that Morocco could increase its status in the Arab world if it was the cause of the defeat of Israel. It might, then choose to martyr itself by launching the nukes from its territory for the greater good of Pan-Arabism even though it would certainly be destroyed.

 

[Yukon]

The Jew has nuclear weapons because America provides him with the "tools" to build them. America's unending support of Israel is the main reason for 9/11.

 

[elvis]

The Jew has nuclear weapons because America provide him with the "tools" to build them. America's unending support of Israel is the main reason for 9/11.

do you have proof to back that up, Adolf, or are you just being your stupid-assed self again?

 

[Tech_Esq]

The Jew has nuclear weapons because America provides him with the "tools" to build them. America's unending support of Israel is the main reason for 9/11.

So, the Yukon theory is that sooner we kill the rest of the Jews, the sooner the rest of the world can start living in peace, that about right?

 

[Yukon]

Allow me to educate you. Usama Bin Laden was an ally of America during the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. In fact the god of American-Conservatism, Ronald Reagan, armed Bin Laden. When the Soviets left Afghanistan Mr. Bin Laden demanded they also leave the Islamic Holy cities of Mecca and Medina and Americans refused. Mr. Bin Laden warned the Conservative governements of the USA to leave or suffer the consequneces. America never left and the rest is history.

 

[elvis]

Allow me to educate you. Usama Bin Laden was an ally of America during the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. In fact the god of American-Conservatism, Ronald Reagan, armed Bin Laden. When the Soviets left Afghanistan Mr. Bin Laden demanded they also leave the Islamic Holy cities of Mecca and Medina and Americans refused. Mr. Bin Laden warned the Conservative governements of the USA to leave or suffer the consequneces. America never left and the rest is history.

Hey fuckface, you should fly the nazi flag in your avatar. It's an insult to Canada that you fly theirs.

 

[Yukon]

Poor Elvis. When confrionted with factual evidence he resorts to the use of vile, profane, and disgusting name-calling exercises. Obviously the sign of an uneducated buffoon.

 

[elvis]

Poor Elvis. When confrionted with factual evidence he resorts to the use of vile, profane, and disgusting name-calling exercises. Obviously the sign of an uneducated buffoon.

Evidence? Hmm. Paraphrasing Mein Kampf does not constitute evidence. Sorry you don't like foul language, you cocksucking son of a whore.

 

[Shogun]

Your foul language isn't really all that impressive... But, you've certainly been spotted and tagged for your failure to offer rebuttal. When yu've run out of ammo just scream antisemite, eh?




TYPICAL.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Allow me to educate you. Usama Bin Laden was an ally of America during the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. In fact the god of American-Conservatism, Ronald Reagan, armed Bin Laden. When the Soviets left Afghanistan Mr. Bin Laden demanded they also leave the Islamic Holy cities of Mecca and Medina and Americans refused. Mr. Bin Laden warned the Conservative governements of the USA to leave or suffer the consequneces. America never left and the rest is history.

You just generally believe whatever crap you hear or is this a special case? Never mind. I know the answer.

Since I was at the US Center for Afghan Studies in 1987-1991, how about I educate you? The CIA support for the Muhajadeen was general, not specific. bin Laden got money just like all the other chieftains that were willing to fight against the Soviets. They were housed, trained and equipped in Pakistan to fight in Afghanistan. When the Soviets pulled out, the warlords (mostly Afghan chieftains) moved back in and struggled for power and territory. This period lasted well into the 1990s.

The stated desire of bin Laden for the US to leave Saudi Arabia, stems from the US presence during and after the Gulf War. Thus, it is not connected to Afghanistan, Sparky.

It is the business of the government of Saudi Arabia to determine what foreign presence is acceptable in its country, not bin Laden. Would you listen if Ross Perot said, "It is not acceptable for Canadians to be in the US. Their mere presence disparages the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?" And if Canadians didn't listen would it then be justified for him to start blowing up Canadians and their buildings?

I'm surprised the rest of Canada hasn't put you on an ice flow and shoved, for you being so unCanadian. You're probably persona non grata at Tim Horton's.

 

[elvis]

The comparison to Hitler is not that far-fetched. if you recall your history, Shogie, Hitler blamed Germany's World War I loss on the Jews.

 

[Shogun]

The comparison to Hitler is not that far-fetched. if you recall your history, Shogie, Hitler blamed Germany's World War I loss on the Jews.

I'm well aware of what Hitler blamed ww1 on, hound dog... But it becomes so fucking trite when every time, EVERY TIME you people only reach for the same old worn out bullshit accusations. do you REALLY think Yukon is like fucking HITLER? REALLY? Do you REALLY think some fucking Kanuk is plotting to exterminate jews? You people really are the ethnicity who cried wolf with that repetitive shit that has more in common with a skipping record than valuable observation. AND, you totally diminish the effectiveness of ACTUAL hitler wannabes by throwing the label at every fucking thing with a shadow. For real, dude. You may want to curl up in your cultural Post Traumatic Stress Disorder but give it a fucking rest already.

 

[Yukon]

SHOGUN,

Do I correctly detect your dislike of Elvis?

 

[Tech_Esq]

The comparison to Hitler is not that far-fetched. if you recall your history, Shogie, Hitler blamed Germany's World War I loss on the Jews.

I'm well aware of what Hitler blamed ww1 on, hound dog... But it becomes so fucking trite when every time, EVERY TIME you people only reach for the same old worn out bullshit accusations. do you REALLY think Yukon is like fucking HITLER? REALLY? Do you REALLY think some fucking Kanuk is plotting to exterminate jews? You people really are the ethnicity who cried wolf with that repetitive shit that has more in common with a skipping record than valuable observation. AND, you totally diminish the effectiveness of ACTUAL hitler wannabes by throwing the label at every fucking thing with a shadow. For real, dude. You may want to curl up in your cultural Post Traumatic Stress Disorder but give it a fucking rest already.

I dunno, YUCANSUCKME is on another thread saying this:


Quote: Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
I am white and you spell that: W hite A nglo S axon P rotestant

Not exactly Hitleresque, but you do get a flavor.