100 Facts

[Big D]

Isaac

Asians live very close to one another and have the lowest crime rate of any group of people.

Where ever blacks live in any part of the world they are always the leaders in violent crime. Blacks are also the leaders in all aids cases around the world.

I belive this is due to there high testosterone levels and low intelligence.

R3volut!on

Here is a article that may interest you:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams010902.asp

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by jimnyc
This may be true, but it's coincidental. Where there are blacks - there is crime. The crime rate is higher in nearly all black areas throughout America. They lead the nation in murder, rape, assault, theft... The percentage of blacks in prison or on probation is astounding. This holds true in both urban and rural areas.

The same argument has been held about intelligence and the persons surroundings. Read numbers 9 and 10.

Ask anyone who lives in the NYC area (NY-NJ-CT) why they don't live in Harlem, Bronx, Camden, Trenton... They'll tell you that it's too dangerous and they want a better living. They're just being polite with their words, they don't want to live amongst the blacks because they fear for their lives.

They also lead the nation in poverty which is the thesis of my point. You're saying they're the disease, i'm saying they're the symptom of poverty, which at its core is the disease.
As an interesting point, in my research, I have found that some would even disagree with both you and me and say that intelligence has no bearing of heredity or socio-economic background and is a biasis of the test alone. I don't necessarily agree with that, but certainly interesting nonetheless.

Plus, I could cite you just as many studies that say YES, socio-economics has an effect on IQ which challenges "facts" 9 & 10.

Here's an abstract of one:

From Nature 340, 552 - 554 (1989); doi:10.1038/340552a0

Assessment of effects of socio-economic status on IQ in a full cross-fostering study

Christiane Capron & Michel Duyme

AN important question in studies of mental ability concerns the effect of parental socio-economic status (SES) on the IQ of their offspring. Only a full cross-fostering study, including children born to biological parents from the most highly contrasting SES and adopted by parents with equally constrasting SES, can answer this question. Previous adoption studies using incomplete cross-fostering designs13 have indicated an effect of postnatal environment on the IQ of children born to low-SES backgrounds and adopted by high-SES parents. They have not shown whether a low SES reduces the IQ of children born to high-SES parents or whether the SES of biological parents has an effect on IQ, or whether the effect of the SES of adoptive parents is independent of the SES of biological parents. We present a full cross-fostering study dealing with IQ, and find that children adopted by high-SES parents score higher than children adopted by low-SES parents; children born to high-SES parents score higher than children born to low-SES parents; and that there is no evidence for an interaction between these two factors on children's IQ.

Here's another study of Race and IQ tests which mention of socioeconomic indicators:
http://www.hamilton.edu/academic/Government/government_375/sp97/Race&Testing/rt4.html

A statistical look at hereidity with the conclusions the IQ cannot be a product of heredity alone.
http://www.nslc.wustl.edu/courses/Bio2970/larson/2003/H11_5.pdf

There should be enough evidence presented to at least cast reasonable doubt on the assertions made in those 2, so called, facts. From what I understand most of the evidence supporting 9 and 10 seems to be derrived from "The Bell Curve: Intelligence and class structure in American life" by Herrnstein, R.J., & Murray, C. (1994). However, the amount of criticism I have found for that research is stagerring, and can be presented, need be.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Big D
Isaac

Asians live very close to one another and have the lowest crime rate of any group of people.
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I'm going to have to call you on that one. To say asia is a peaceful and tranquil place where low crime prevails in a very dangerous misconception. One needs to look no further than Myanmar, Cambodia, Hong Kong and Indonesia to see that their rates of crime a very high. Forgive me if I don't seek out sources that I can post but as you can imagine it would be fairly labourous to acquire this data. All I can tell you is that i'm looking in my Southeast Asia on a Shoestring by Lonely Planet, and they say that gang activity and violent theft is enough to give me a stern warning about. Hong Kong, it just say to stay away from the Triads... good advice!

As for that article, I can only answer with a question. Would you rather live without liberty and be relatively secure, or be free and without economic and social certainty created by colonialism?

 

[jimnyc]

I'm sure you're correct, Isaac, and I won't argue the facts you have presented. I still really don't care how they got to be the way they are, I just know I don't want to be like them or live amongst them. I live in a rather well area, extremely low population of blacks, and there is barely any crime. The 2 surrounding cities have a much larger population of blacks, and the difference in crime levels are staggering. Once darkness settles in, you don't leave your town. Drive a little further down into the South Bronx. People that drive there after dark rarely stop for red lights anymore. Ask Queen Latifah what happens when you do stop, and she's black!

I didn't ask for it to be this way, this is just the way it is in too many places these days. I do have a choice as to whether or not I have to be like them or be in danger as a result. I'll stick to where there is less crime.

 

[eric]

You know I have to be honest, I feel much the way Jim does. You know this crap about poverty really gets to me. Hey, my life was hard too. My parents came here from Europe right after WWII on an American troop transport. They arrived with no money in their pockets, within 3 days my mom and dad were working, and did not yet even know the language. Within 2 years my parents paid for my dad to go to school, no grant, no loans, nothing, he studied 8 years to become an electrical engineer. Then I was born a few years latter, and we moved from the city to a nice town on LI. When I was 4 years old my father passed away, my mom could no longer afford the home we had and we had to move to an ok town. Mom started cleaning homes for other people 10 sometimes 12 hours a day, I was on my own many times out of necessity. There were bad influences in our neighborhood, but I was determined to make something of my life and give my mom an easier time in her latter years. So instead of just hanging out I went to the public library and educated myself on something that was of interest to me, electronics and computers. I went to school during the day, then I started doing FREE work for a small computer company to show them what I was capable of. I was constantly picked on in school because I was not tall at all, instead of feeling sorry for myself, it just increased my determination. Finally the company hired me for peanuts, again instead of whinning, I just kept going giving it my all. Well my determination paid off, I was asked by one of the companies we delt with to come work for them in NYC, which I did, and became the Technical Support Manager within 2 years. I sat on the LI express way 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours at night. I knew though it was worth it and would lead to a better life. Well long story short it has. I now enjoy the fruits of my labor and determination, yet I still strive to do better, and I am not talking about money anymore.

Why I told you a short version of my life story is simple; the education and knowledge is here for whoever chooses to take the time and effort to learn. With determination and hard work you can pull yourself out of any circumstances, even when you have a ton of adversity facing you. Sorry I just can not feel bad for people who chose not to!!!

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by eric


Why I told you a short version of my life story is simple; the education and knowledge is here for whoever chooses to take the time and effort to learn. With determination and hard work you can pull yourself out of any circumstances, even when you have a ton of adversity facing you. Sorry I just can not feel bad for people who chose not to!!!

I too disagree with the economic status being the root of the troubles. When my ancestors came here during WWII they lived in some of the very apartment complexes in the Bronx that blacks now live in. They worked many hours a day for low wages, didn't have cars, speak the language and had no WELFARE or SOCIAL SERVICE support. Yet they did not destroy the houses they lived in. Once the blacks moved in the plumbing was stripped, people defecated in the hallways, windows were busted out. For as long as I can remember blacks have received many $ worth of social support while low-middle income whites didn't. Neither my grandfather, father or I got a penny for college...had to work my way through with 2 jobs, my dad scored a perfect 1600 on his Sat's but still commuted over 2 hours to/from school and his job to be able to afford it because he was white and didn't get financial assistance and my grandfather worked to afford his schooling which he didn't get until his 30's when he saved enough $. Again I worked full time while going to law school. All without any financial assistance from anyone. I traveled 2 hours into NYC- worked from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. - went to law school at night. Studied. Traveled 2 hours back home. Guess what? I didn't have an air conditioner, $200 track shoes, gold necklaces (or teeth), take drugs, go out to bars, etc. I worked my butt off.

So forgive me if I don't agree that economics are the reason that people are violent and disobey the laws. Yes, it's tragic that blacks were brought to this country in chains but let's face facts, many of them were sold to the white people by their own chiefs. And let's discuss humanity. Is it humane to commit female genital mutilation? Marry at 13 and have babies? Die when you are 30? Force women to have sex with a man and give them aids for their trouble? The people in africa may be more "peaceful" but they are hardly better off than the blacks in this country should be if they would just knuckle under and get on with it instead of coveting what they've not got and blaming white people for their troubles.

I'm not saying that blacks are incapable of doing so or are inferior. Those who do not overcome the obstacles in their lives simply CHOOSE not too. There's a difference.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by Big D
What do you think are these facts true?

http://www.powow.com/radio88/wb.htm

I can't find any information to disprove them.

White supremacists crack me up. Instead of actually achieving something great with their lives, they just hang their hat on white people that have accomplished something in history (who wouldn't have pissed on them now if they were on fire.) Why are these people so proud about something that they had no choice in or control over. They were born white....what stupendous supreme thing did they do to accomplish that? Go out and help humanity and STFU!!



-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
White supremacists crack me up. Instead of actually achieving something great with their lives, they just hang their hat on white people that have accomplished something in history (who wouldn't have pissed on them now if they were on fire.) Why are these people so proud about something that they had no choice in or control over. They were born white....what stupendous supreme thing did they do to accomplish that? Go out and help humanity and STFU!!



-Bam

Who is hanging their hat on anything? Facts were submitted showing black crime statistics, intelligence, history... Can you dispute anything that was submitted? The facts speak for themselves.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Who is hanging their hat on anything? Facts were submitted showing black crime statistics, intelligence, history... Can you dispute anything that was submitted? The facts speak for themselves.

Facts aren't merely presented, they serve to back an agenda or other motive. What was the purpose of compiling that list? To illustrate an opinion that whites are superior to blacks seems to be the obvious choice. What is the purpose of smearing Martin Luther King?

I don't even need to go past "FACT" #1:

".....Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer, Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington, Jefferson, Hitler, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison, Graham-Bell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt, Ford, Luther, Davinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers."

Is Hitler on the short list of great whites in the history of the world? Tell me how great Hitler was Jim.



-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Facts aren't merely presented, they serve to back an agenda or other motive. What was the purpose of compiling that list? To illustrate an opinion that whites are superior to blacks seems to be the obvious choice. What is the purpose of smearing Martin Luther King?

I could care less what agenda they had when making that page, they are still facts! Can you disprove them? It illustrates to me that blacks have a high propensity for rapes, murders, assaults, children out of wedlock, prison time, probation, low IQ's & welfare.

I don't even need to go past "FACT" #1:

".....Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer, Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington, Jefferson, Hitler, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison, Graham-Bell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt, Ford, Luther, Davinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers."

Is Hitler on the short list of great whites in the history of the world? Tell me how great Hitler was Jim.

Why are you trying to change the topic? Have I even mentioned Hitler previously? This thread is about facts that have been submitted about blacks. That's all you could find out of the 100 facts outlined? Ignore the facts, that's your perogative. I choose to be aware of my surroundings and stay away from the scourge of our society.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I could care less what agenda they had when making that page, they are still facts! Can you disprove them? It illustrates to me that blacks have a high propensity for rapes, murders, assaults, children out of wedlock, prison time, probation, low IQ's & welfare.



Why are you trying to change the topic? Have I even mentioned Hitler previously? This thread is about facts that have been submitted about blacks. That's all you could find out of the 100 facts outlined? Ignore the facts, that's your perogative. I choose to be aware of my surroundings and stay away from the scourge of our society.

That is taken from FACT #1!!! It's about the list of of the 100 facts and I started at 1 and found it to be false. I am certainly right on the topic.

I disputed something that was submitted. That's what you challenged me to do. I am confused as to why you would accuse me of going off topic based on this.

-Bam

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by bamthin
That is taken from FACT #1!!! It's about the list of of the 100 facts and I started at 1 and found it to be false. I am certainly right on the topic.

I disputed something that was submitted. That's what you challenged me to do. I am confused as to why you would accuse me of going off topic based on this.

-Bam

I'm sorry, but where in #1 was there a lie?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
That is taken from FACT #1!!! It's about the list of of the 100 facts and I started at 1 and found it to be false. I am certainly right on the topic.

I disputed something that was submitted. That's what you challenged me to do. I am confused as to why you would accuse me of going off topic based on this.

-Bam

Ok, what was false in #1?

Is that the only fact on that page you can dispute?

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by Moi
I'm sorry, but where in #1 was there a lie?

I quoted the relevant passage in FACT #1. Look back a couple posts in this thread. It's the part where Hitler is listed as one of the great whites in the history of the world.


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
I quoted the relevant passage in FACT #1. Look back a couple posts in this thread. It's the part where Hitler is listed as one of the great whites in the history of the world.


-Bam

And that part was opinion, the first portion of #1 was the fact - they just cited an example that you disagree with.

Let's move on then, no need to discuss hitler. What else can you disprove out of the other 99 facts presented?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by bamthin
I quoted the relevant passage in FACT #1. Look back a couple posts in this thread. It's the part where Hitler is listed as one of the great whites in the history of the world.


-Bam

And why is that a lie? I have a feeling you picked him out of the lineup because you believe he was an immoral person.

Napoleon, Ceasar, William the Conqueror all had their demons- all killed many people. You are not questioning their greatness just Hitler's. Do not take this to mean that I in any way defend Hitler or what he did. Personally, I think he was a sadistic moron.

However, the application of the word great doesn't condone its subject's actions nor does the definition of the word preclude its use for those who are immoral. It is thus not a lie.

The author of the piece was perhaps misguided in linking Hitler to any argument about blacks versus whites to prove that whites are more law abiding. The posters who responded to the original thread confined their arguments to the facts presented within the article that mentioned education, economic circumstances and conformance to the law.

Just like the constitution, one inaccuracy doesn't negate the validity of any of the other arguments.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
And that part was opinion, the first portion of #1 was the fact - they just cited an example that you disagree with.

Let's move on then, no need to discuss hitler. What else can you disprove out of the other 99 facts presented?

FACT #2:

Here are some links to African inventors.

Here's one (these are Black Americans)

Now, it seems the author may want to exclude the Black American inventors and stick strictly to Africans only. I find this faulty however because several of the Black American inventors are first generation Black Americans, both their parents were African slave or immigrants.

In any event, I have found several links to ancient African innovation as well. Since I really only need one to debunk FACT #2, I won't bore you with the wealth of other innovations in several other feilds. Here's a couple though

African boat

Here's another great one.

LINK

I don't think I want to do all 100 facts, I have debunked the first two, well the first "fact" wasn't even a fact as Jim illustrated. It was an opinion. Seems the original author is confused about what a fact is and, even when he tries to formulate one, it is easily proven false.



-Bam

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by bamthin
Facts aren't merely presented, they serve to back an agenda or other motive. What was the purpose of compiling that list? To illustrate an opinion that whites are superior to blacks seems to be the obvious choice. What is the purpose of smearing Martin Luther King?

I don't even need to go past "FACT" #1:

".....Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer, Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington, Jefferson, Hitler, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison, Graham-Bell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt, Ford, Luther, Davinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers."

Is Hitler on the short list of great whites in the history of the world? Tell me how great Hitler was Jim.



-Bam

An interesting point to pick. You are both very wrong and very right at the same time. Since logic is the basis of rational debate i will treat it as such. You are assuming that since fact #1 is not true or is based on some sort of agenda, all 100 facts lose credibility. This is not true, that would be a logical fallicy either being a Hasty Generalization using a small population to prove the whole population, or most critically it would be called Circumstancial Ad Hominem since logically you cannot disprove someones facts just because they're pushing the agenda.

That being said, you illuminated my mind to some very interesting fault in the above forementionned list. First off, you are completely right in debunking "Fact" #1, the author of that list has committed a big no no in using a "biased sample". Biased samples work like this,

Sample S, which is biased, is taken from population P. (Ie great white leaders )
Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S. (Ie all whites are superior).

Hence, the fact that he presents past great leaders and accomplishments that were white (and frankly some of them in my opinion would have been better left off that list), does not by any mean whites are greater. In order to make it logically true he would have had to include all of our weaker moments, ie genocide, Stalin, mustard gas etc and then compare the two in order to prove whites are better than blacks.

Regarding my past debate with jim, i realized that I also believe the author is quite guilty of "Ignoring a Common Cause", where he omitts other data (such as the Urban/Rural and socio-economic question), but still makes a conclusion.

That being said, I too agree that the person writing this list is so obviously pushing an agenda, one that I don't support at all and frankly think it hurtful, however you can't say he's wrong just because you don't like what he says. We have deductive tools and facts that can, if true, prove him wrong. At least I have seen enough point that I believe can be proven wrong or at least suspect, to suggest the evidence gathered is incomplete and hence, cannot support the author's conclusion without a certain realm of doubt.

 

[5stringJeff]

Isaac, great post. I agree that, while all these facts may be true, that the conclusion the author comes to (that the white race is better than the black race) is false.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

That being said, I too agree that the person writing this list is so obviously pushing an agenda, one that I don't support at all and frankly think it hurtful, however you can't say he's wrong just because you don't like what he says. We have deductive tools and facts that can, if true, prove him wrong. At least I have seen enough point that I believe can be proven wrong or at least suspect, to suggest the evidence gathered is incomplete and hence, cannot support the author's conclusion without a certain realm of doubt.

Your post is a very logical, lucid argument. It is also obvious to me that the original article's author has an agenda too. I also agree that they have every right to say what they want and, vile though it may be, just calling something lies becuause you don't agree with something is just as wrong one way as the other.

I am not a white supremicist nor do I think that whites should have any MORE rights than anyone else. I do think, however, that they shouldn't have fewer (i.e., affirmative action) and that includes the right to keep their money and/or have their government spend it equally not unequally due to race. I also reaffirm my earlier post that those who do not overcome their poverty by participating in their own salvation don't deserve the assistance of the government and it's other citizens.