10 Ways the Government is Killing Jobs

5. The threat of unionization: In a global economy, it’s fairly simple for a lot of firms to avoid unionization: They can move overseas and take their jobs with them. Policies that favor unions make this decision more attractive.

God forbid we break up the sweatshops


yes... things were so good before the unions...

talk to some of the elders in the old mining towns, moron

So why are the American workers for Japanese companies so happy and the one's working for Americans aren't!

Unions have a place, but they have far too much power, influence and CORRUPTION! They strong arm companies into making horrendous deals and then cry when the companies go bankrupt or overseas.

Unions have a place, but they are definitely much greater of an evil than hero! The UAW should be disbanded. The Carpenters Union should also! Down with the Teamsters!
 
Liberals I invite you to refute any off the ten claims below. Note: Stating Bush did this or that isn't an arugment its a straw man (and a weak straw man)!

Arthur Brooks: Top 10 ways government kills jobs in America | Washington Examiner

As we listen to the rhetoric, remember the reality. These are the Top job killers in America.

1. Uncertainty and business: What you don’t know can (and does) hurt you. Businesses plan around rules. And they are unlikely to invest if they can’t be reasonably sure about what the rules will be. When things are uncertain, businesses hold back cash to protect themselves—and this kills jobs. My colleague Allan Meltzer has made this point in two recent WSJ op-eds: “High uncertainty is the enemy of investment and growth,” he declares in one. “The most important restriction on investment today is not tight monetary policy, but uncertainty about administration policy,” he argues in the other.

2. Uncertainty and the consumer: Uncertainty isn’t just bad for companies—it’s bad for consumers, too. If I think government policy may provoke a double dip in the economy and my job is on the line, there’s no way I’m going out to buy a new car. For that matter, even the possibility of a huge gas tax would make me less likely to make a car purchase decision. All this kills jobs.

3. High corporate taxes: Americans are shocked to learn that we have some of the highest corporate taxes in the world. In fact, Japan is the only developed country with a higher corporate tax rate than the United States. Whether we like it or not, the corporate tax is a tax on jobs. It makes it more expensive for firms to function, which costs jobs. But even worse, it drives companies to find more tax-friendly environments in other countries.

4. Unhealthy health insurance costs: The high health insurance costs associated with hiring new workers hits small businesses particularly hard, according to AEI economist Aparna Mathur. Government health mandates specify exactly what kinds of coverage have to be included in insurance policies. This makes increasing headcount a costly exercise, and so kills jobs. One major CEO told me recently that his hiring was stunted by the new mandate to cover workers’ kids up to age 26.

5. The threat of unionization: In a global economy, it’s fairly simple for a lot of firms to avoid unionization: They can move overseas and take their jobs with them. Policies that favor unions make this decision more attractive.

6. Inability to hire and fire: In Europe, government regulations and employment protection laws reduce the flexibility of firms to downsize their operations when they need to. They also discourage those same firms from upsizing their operations when they would otherwise do so, and are thus a job killer. This is why Spain has a 20% unemployment rate (and about 40% among workers under 25). Restrictions on firing are a job killer.

7. Trade restrictions: Free trade favors consumers everywhere, and benefits workers in industries where America has a comparative advantage. Tariffs and other barriers benefit industries that are already in decline. This is why economists always tell us that over the long run, trade barriers and slow modernization are a net job killer.

8. Credit: Poor credit access especially hurts new and young firms that are eager to expand their operations. The new Consumer Financial Protection Agency could make matters worse by expanding burdensome regulation of these financial markets, killing jobs in the process.

9. Increasing unemployment insurance: Everyone wants to ease the burden on the unemployed, so it is tempting to extend unemployment insurance, as our government has recently—today, to as much as 73 additional weeks. Unfortunately, this kills jobs and economic recovery. Harvard economist Robert Barro estimates that if unemployment insurance had not been expanded, the unemployment rate would now be 6.8% rather than 9.5%.

10. Encouraging frivolous lawsuits: This increases the costs of doing business in America, with one study estimating that we waste as much as $900 billion a year on excessive tort litigation—that’s 6.5 percent of GNP or $12,000 annually for a family of four. As a result, company capital that could be used for expansion and job creation goes to the trial lawyers instead. And like so many anti-business measures, such litigation drives up costs for consumers, which reduces demand and kills jobs even more.

Good list. And there actually at least one more. Something around $2 trillion in foreign capital held by U.S. Corporation is sitting in foreign banks because the Obama Administration won't release it for use here as compensation to his 'buy American' union buddies. Because so much of it would benefit the rank and file American and not the unions, they don't want the 'competition'.
 
7. Trade restrictions: Free trade favors consumers everywhere, and benefits workers in industries where America has a comparative advantage. Tariffs and other barriers benefit industries that are already in decline. This is why economists always tell us that over the long run, trade barriers and slow modernization are a net job killer.
"


Fuck free trade

Everytime I want to do the knee-jerk reaction of protectionism, I aways get reminded of Smoot-Hawley Tarrif Act of 1929 and I come back to Earth!

Remember one thing, America still produces the majority of the world's goods! We are still way ahead of China! We have major trade imbalances no doubt, but a large culprit in our trade deficit is OIL (big culprit with Canada and Mexico)!

Made in the USA: Still Number One !

If we tossed up trade bariers like Smoot-Hawley today, we would see the Great Devastation (worse than a depression)!

No doubt some of our trade agreements must be reworked to be "Fair," but going nutz is well stupid!
 
8. Credit: Poor credit access especially hurts new and young firms that are eager to expand their operations. The new Consumer Financial Protection Agency could make matters worse by expanding burdensome regulation of these financial markets, killing jobs in the process.

giving everyone credit they didn't deserve tanked the economy- killing jobs

NO this is not talking about credit to consumers (glad to know you didn't read it), rather its opening credit to small businesses. I agree forcing stupid lending practices whether consumer or business is well stupid. However, putting up so many regulatory barriers and red tape causes less credit to small businesses. That is what is meant by #8!
 
There is no uncertainty for big business; if they fuck up, Der Staat will bail them out on my dime and yours

That doesn't go for small business (<500 or less employees) or even "smaller" large corps. Remember Lehman Brothers and Bearn Streams weren't bailed out! Many nation-wide retailers went OOB!

The bail-out argument is just crap!
Studies have debunked the 'small businesses drive the economy' myth.

Such small businesses play no major role when it comes to employment/unemployment and other such talking points in the modern economy
 
No consumer uncertainty isn't the same thing as being broke, in debt, unemployed, or just terrified that you may lose your house, have a major medical problem or become terminally unemployed.

Get real.

Consumer uncertainty decreases demand, no?
Unemployment decreases demand more, yes?

Unemployment and consumer uncertainty go hand and hand.

An unemployed person will spend less, but according to the states 90% of Americans are still employed (I think its higher and doesn't take into account the under-employed people). However, in times like these, the employed workers are still fearful of losing their job and not finding another one. So that makes 90% of the work force afraid to spend their money. That is why consumer uncertainty is a bigger stress in consumer confidence and why it goes hand and hand with less demand causes by unemployment!
 
There is no uncertainty for big business; if they fuck up, Der Staat will bail them out on my dime and yours

That doesn't go for small business (<500 or less employees) or even "smaller" large corps. Remember Lehman Brothers and Bearn Streams weren't bailed out! Many nation-wide retailers went OOB!

The bail-out argument is just crap!
Studies have debunked the 'small businesses drive the economy' myth.

Such small businesses play no major role when it comes to employment/unemployment and other such talking points in the modern economy

Depends on the definition of small business. Small business are considered <500 employees. Small businesses currently employee 60% of Americans! I would say that is a strong driving force!

But please present me those studies so I can get educated by them!
 
Liberals I invite you to refute any off the ten claims below. Note: Stating Bush did this or that isn't an arugment its a straw man (and a weak straw man)!

Arthur Brooks: Top 10 ways government kills jobs in America | Washington Examiner

As we listen to the rhetoric, remember the reality. These are the Top job killers in America.

1. Uncertainty and business: What you don&#8217;t know can (and does) hurt you. Businesses plan around rules. And they are unlikely to invest if they can&#8217;t be reasonably sure about what the rules will be. When things are uncertain, businesses hold back cash to protect themselves&#8212;and this kills jobs. My colleague Allan Meltzer has made this point in two recent WSJ op-eds: &#8220;High uncertainty is the enemy of investment and growth,&#8221; he declares in one. &#8220;The most important restriction on investment today is not tight monetary policy, but uncertainty about administration policy,&#8221; he argues in the other.

2. Uncertainty and the consumer: Uncertainty isn&#8217;t just bad for companies&#8212;it&#8217;s bad for consumers, too. If I think government policy may provoke a double dip in the economy and my job is on the line, there&#8217;s no way I&#8217;m going out to buy a new car. For that matter, even the possibility of a huge gas tax would make me less likely to make a car purchase decision. All this kills jobs.

3. High corporate taxes: Americans are shocked to learn that we have some of the highest corporate taxes in the world. In fact, Japan is the only developed country with a higher corporate tax rate than the United States. Whether we like it or not, the corporate tax is a tax on jobs. It makes it more expensive for firms to function, which costs jobs. But even worse, it drives companies to find more tax-friendly environments in other countries.

4. Unhealthy health insurance costs: The high health insurance costs associated with hiring new workers hits small businesses particularly hard, according to AEI economist Aparna Mathur. Government health mandates specify exactly what kinds of coverage have to be included in insurance policies. This makes increasing headcount a costly exercise, and so kills jobs. One major CEO told me recently that his hiring was stunted by the new mandate to cover workers&#8217; kids up to age 26.

5. The threat of unionization: In a global economy, it&#8217;s fairly simple for a lot of firms to avoid unionization: They can move overseas and take their jobs with them. Policies that favor unions make this decision more attractive.

6. Inability to hire and fire: In Europe, government regulations and employment protection laws reduce the flexibility of firms to downsize their operations when they need to. They also discourage those same firms from upsizing their operations when they would otherwise do so, and are thus a job killer. This is why Spain has a 20% unemployment rate (and about 40% among workers under 25). Restrictions on firing are a job killer.

7. Trade restrictions: Free trade favors consumers everywhere, and benefits workers in industries where America has a comparative advantage. Tariffs and other barriers benefit industries that are already in decline. This is why economists always tell us that over the long run, trade barriers and slow modernization are a net job killer.

8. Credit: Poor credit access especially hurts new and young firms that are eager to expand their operations. The new Consumer Financial Protection Agency could make matters worse by expanding burdensome regulation of these financial markets, killing jobs in the process.

9. Increasing unemployment insurance: Everyone wants to ease the burden on the unemployed, so it is tempting to extend unemployment insurance, as our government has recently&#8212;today, to as much as 73 additional weeks. Unfortunately, this kills jobs and economic recovery. Harvard economist Robert Barro estimates that if unemployment insurance had not been expanded, the unemployment rate would now be 6.8% rather than 9.5%.

10. Encouraging frivolous lawsuits: This increases the costs of doing business in America, with one study estimating that we waste as much as $900 billion a year on excessive tort litigation&#8212;that&#8217;s 6.5 percent of GNP or $12,000 annually for a family of four. As a result, company capital that could be used for expansion and job creation goes to the trial lawyers instead. And like so many anti-business measures, such litigation drives up costs for consumers, which reduces demand and kills jobs even more.
1 The Bush Depression began in Dec 2007 with the Bush tax cuts in full effect and with a certainty that they would continue until 2011.

2 Despite the fact that the GOP have been hoping for a double dip recession for the last 2 years, it will only happen if the teabaggers take control of at least the House in 2010.

3 Most corps pay no taxes.

4 Health cost were rising at a greater pace than inflation and were certain to continue that trend before health care reform.

5 Union membership had been declining when the Bush depression began.

6 This is not Europe. US Businesses have certainly had no problem firing people as the Bush Depression proves.

7 Somehow trade must be going on as we have a trade deficit.

8 Interest rates are at the lowest they have ever been.

9 There are no jobs for the unemployed, so cutting unemployment insurance only reduces consumer demand further causing more unemployment which is what the GOP wants.

10 Law suits are only frivolous when they are somebody else's law suit. CON$ervative law suits are never frivolous. GOP tort lawyers do not need reform, only tort lawyers who support the Dems need reform.

You're mostly correct, but you missed a couple of important points.

1. From 2001 to 2008, more than 2.4 million jobs were moved to China. Companies were able to do this because they had government help. Tax cuts for the rich and subsidies to bring Chinese here to train them to take over American jobs.

2. Once this infrastructure was in place, jobs could continue to move do China up until today.

3. Republicans in congress worked together as a block to sink any legislation to bring jobs back to this country.

4. The Republican Chamber of Commerce and the country of China worked together to present a series of seminars nationwide teaching American companies how to outsource to China.

I linked to these points dozens of times. It's not like it's a secret or information that's "hard to find".
 
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3. High corporate taxes: Americans are shocked to learn that we have some of the highest corporate taxes in the world. In fact, Japan is the only developed country with a higher corporate tax rate than the United States. Whether we like it or not, the corporate tax is a tax on jobs. It makes it more expensive for firms to function, which costs jobs. But even worse, it drives companies to find more tax-friendly environments in other countries.
Bullshit, The top corporations pay effectively 0 in taxes

AMERICAblog News: Paying 0.0% in corporate taxes

I love this red herring argument. No Corporation pay taxes. They can avoid it like the plague. BULL SHIT.

Red herring? looks like a strawman to me :lol:
Corporations can avoid the corporate tax 3 ways:
(1) They don't make a profit!
(2) They use tax rightoff (which are expenses, like investment, employee health insurance, employee retirement, etc.), but write-offs for the most part require SPENDING MONEY.
(3) They ship their operations overseas!!!

right... pay to mind to the double irish...
 
5. The threat of unionization: In a global economy, it’s fairly simple for a lot of firms to avoid unionization: They can move overseas and take their jobs with them. Policies that favor unions make this decision more attractive.
God forbid we break up the sweatshops


yes... things were so good before the unions...

talk to some of the elders in the old mining towns, moron

So why are the American workers for Japanese companies so happy and the one's working for Americans aren't!

Unions have a place, but they have far too much power, influence and CORRUPTION! They strong arm companies into making horrendous deals and then cry when the companies go bankrupt or overseas.

Unions have a place, but they are definitely much greater of an evil than hero! The UAW should be disbanded. The Carpenters Union should also! Down with the Teamsters!

I've spoken on these forums several times about the unions that have betrayed the workers.
 
7. Trade restrictions: Free trade favors consumers everywhere, and benefits workers in industries where America has a comparative advantage. Tariffs and other barriers benefit industries that are already in decline. This is why economists always tell us that over the long run, trade barriers and slow modernization are a net job killer.
"


Fuck free trade

Everytime I want to do the knee-jerk reaction of protectionism

I don't care what you do. You're an idiot. I've never opposed trade. I oppose neocolonialism.

I advocate
fair trade laws than ban imported goods produced in sweatshops to reduce the exploitation of the poor and make 'outsourcing' less attractive and keeps jobs and manufacturing inside the United States, with trade supplementing rather than replacing American production and invention. Two birds, one stone.
 
That doesn't go for small business (<500 or less employees) or even "smaller" large corps. Remember Lehman Brothers and Bearn Streams weren't bailed out! Many nation-wide retailers went OOB!

The bail-out argument is just crap!
Who?

I thought you were against government bailouts, anyway. Get your talking points straight. :lol:

NOT ME, because is hypocritical! I HAVE NEVER taken that stance. NEVER!

While I didn't like giving these corporations billions of dollars (just like the President and Congressman have stated), but it was a necessary evil! I fully stand behind the thinking that if we didn't bailout the Banks, AIG, Auto Companies etc, we would be in a Great Depression with 20%+ unemployment!

I don't support the stimulus! Get it right Ravi!

The unemployment is already over 20%...

Besides these things just postpone the recession. For example:

If there is too much house building due to bubble, and the bubble pops. The losses are real.

Government thinks it needs to stimulate house buying instead of letting the economy restructure to a much sounder one. Where the resources used to build houses are diverted to other places. With government stimulus the resources are KEPT at building houses, sure it seems as if there was no recession, but there is still a huge problem undermining the economy.

That is why demand also should not be artificially boosted. Sure that means a lot of companies will fail, but it also means a new opportunity for new NEEDED companies. Temporarily it is OK if recessions kill a lot of jobs.

Though now the government has already done everything wrong, so in the future there might not only be lack of employment, but also lack of productivity, which is much more serious. That means declining living standards for everyone. Or in other words high prices. In short decline of the dollar.

Obviously the inflation is also very negative for the dollar. But I am not talking about it as much as malinvestment here.
 
No, real unemployment combined with under-employment could be 20%+, but "official" unemployment is just right under 10%!

It amazes me how people thing that allowing the banks, insurance industry and auto industry would be better in the long or short-term. Short-term would be a collapse of our economy, with more than just these banks, insurance cos and auto cos going out, it would be the many many companies that rely on these companies for capital, the companies and individuals that lose their savings, not to mention the many many companies that sell goods and services to these companies, esp the auto manufactures.

The Long-term wouldn't look at better!

It was a necessary evil and whether it was a Republican or Democratic President or Congress, it would have been done!

Who?

I thought you were against government bailouts, anyway. Get your talking points straight. :lol:

NOT ME, because is hypocritical! I HAVE NEVER taken that stance. NEVER!

While I didn't like giving these corporations billions of dollars (just like the President and Congressman have stated), but it was a necessary evil! I fully stand behind the thinking that if we didn't bailout the Banks, AIG, Auto Companies etc, we would be in a Great Depression with 20%+ unemployment!

I don't support the stimulus! Get it right Ravi!

The unemployment is already over 20%...

Besides these things just postpone the recession. For example:

If there is too much house building due to bubble, and the bubble pops. The losses are real.

Government thinks it needs to stimulate house buying instead of letting the economy restructure to a much sounder one. Where the resources used to build houses are diverted to other places. With government stimulus the resources are KEPT at building houses, sure it seems as if there was no recession, but there is still a huge problem undermining the economy.

That is why demand also should not be artificially boosted. Sure that means a lot of companies will fail, but it also means a new opportunity for new NEEDED companies. Temporarily it is OK if recessions kill a lot of jobs.

Though now the government has already done everything wrong, so in the future there might not only be lack of employment, but also lack of productivity, which is much more serious. That means declining living standards for everyone. Or in other words high prices. In short decline of the dollar.

Obviously the inflation is also very negative for the dollar. But I am not talking about it as much as malinvestment here.
 
No, real unemployment combined with under-employment could be 20%+, but "official" unemployment is just right under 10%!

It amazes me how people thing that allowing the banks, insurance industry and auto industry would be better in the long or short-term. Short-term would be a collapse of our economy, with more than just these banks, insurance cos and auto cos going out, it would be the many many companies that rely on these companies for capital, the companies and individuals that lose their savings, not to mention the many many companies that sell goods and services to these companies, esp the auto manufactures.

The Long-term wouldn't look at better!

It was a necessary evil and whether it was a Republican or Democratic President or Congress, it would have been done!

NOT ME, because is hypocritical! I HAVE NEVER taken that stance. NEVER!

While I didn't like giving these corporations billions of dollars (just like the President and Congressman have stated), but it was a necessary evil! I fully stand behind the thinking that if we didn't bailout the Banks, AIG, Auto Companies etc, we would be in a Great Depression with 20%+ unemployment!

I don't support the stimulus! Get it right Ravi!

The unemployment is already over 20%...

Besides these things just postpone the recession. For example:

If there is too much house building due to bubble, and the bubble pops. The losses are real.

Government thinks it needs to stimulate house buying instead of letting the economy restructure to a much sounder one. Where the resources used to build houses are diverted to other places. With government stimulus the resources are KEPT at building houses, sure it seems as if there was no recession, but there is still a huge problem undermining the economy.

That is why demand also should not be artificially boosted. Sure that means a lot of companies will fail, but it also means a new opportunity for new NEEDED companies. Temporarily it is OK if recessions kill a lot of jobs.

Though now the government has already done everything wrong, so in the future there might not only be lack of employment, but also lack of productivity, which is much more serious. That means declining living standards for everyone. Or in other words high prices. In short decline of the dollar.

Obviously the inflation is also very negative for the dollar. But I am not talking about it as much as malinvestment here.


Your analogy is like saying that let's have everyone farm and not manufacture in the stone age. To save the farms and thus the economy. Of course economy would be better if you let the companies fail.

It's not like something competent wouldn't emerge of them. Now they just STAY incompetent and cost money that could be used for other businesses that are productive.

It is a waste. And causes moral hazards that just make sure the same happens again.

In short run all is fine, as no one loses jobs (just like in the stone age scenario), but in long term you lose out.
 
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