10 Top Reasons You Owe The Nation

[RDD_1210]

It means you claim to pay for a program with savings, but the 'savings', etherial that they are, are also, meaning at the same time, being used elsewhere.

They're not being used elsewhere, that's the point. Show me in the score where the CBO has the slowed Medicare cost growth affecting the deficit impact prediction in multiple places. Don't link to me Ryan and don't link me to an administration quote, we're using only primary sources here (that means the actual CBO score).

You'll be disappointed to learn that I pay as much attention to your orders as every other female who has had the pleasure of making your acquaintance...

... and on that note:

In fact, every federal social program has cost far more than originally predicted. For instance, in 1967 the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that Medicare would cost $12 billion in 1990, a staggering $95 billion underestimate. Medicare first exceeded $12 billion in 1975. In 1965 federal actuaries figured the Medicare hospital program would end up running $9 billion in 1990. The cost was more than $66 billion.
In 1987 Congress estimated that the Medicaid Special Hospitals Subsidy would hit $100 million in 1992. The actual bill came to $11 billion. The initial costs of Medicare's kidney-dialysis program, passed in 1972, were more than twice projected levels.

The Congressional Budget Office doubled the estimated cost of Medicare's catastrophic insurance benefit — subsequently repealed — from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion annually within the first year of its passage. The agency increased the projected cost of the skilled nursing benefit an astonishing sevenfold over roughly the same time frame, from $2.1 billion to $13.5 billion. And in 1935 a naive Congress predicted $3.5 billion in Social Security outlays in 1980, one-thirtieth the actual level of $105 billion.
Doug Bandow on Medicare on National Review Online


So, among the various and sundry...let's call them 'tricks' is the wilfull disregard for experience.

I belive in the experience of the past....
...you should try that approach.

As much of a non-answer as I've ever seen. Well done.

 

[Greenbeard]

She will shut up if you beat on her hard enough. Take my word for it.

I'd much prefer she actually learn to think and evaluate the veracity of a claim, rather than just shut up and go away. You know, "teach a man to fish..." and all that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

She will shut up if you beat on her hard enough. Take my word for it.

I'd much prefer she actually learn to think and evaluate the veracity of a claim, rather than just shut up and go away. You know, "teach a man to fish..." and all that.

She's not here to debate, in the sense of using one's own thoughts and insights along with the evidence to try to prove a point. She's basically cut and paste and then smartass anyone who disagrees, which btw is fine, to each his own,

but you won't have any luck getting a real originally produced argument out of her - that would mean she'd have to risk losing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The CBO put the cost of the December tax cut/tax extension at 800 billion.

How does THAT compare in cost to the healthcare bill?

 

[Toronado3800]

I believe it will cost us money as a nation. Less money than would be sucked out if we do not do this right. Economy of scale.

Just someday, someone (meaning most of us who have less than 10 million of liquid assests) will be unable to afford a 10k a dose pill that will extend our lives if taken three times daily. Worst part is we will know the pill exists and have to watch our mother, ourself, or our kid die a few years sooner because neither ourself or the nation can afford it.

Forcing everyone to pay into insurance puts off this day. It buys time for the medical research industry to quit focusing on wonder drugs and switch to finding ways to make existing treatments cheaper.

Immediately a properly implemented healthcare plan will cost little. In forty(???) years as costs rise premiums to fund it may be too much for the population as a whole to pay.

How about you work harder and make 10 million and stop asking for the nation to take care of you?

Oops, bad assumption if you ASS Ume I am not working on it lol. But despite what standardized testing would make you think my income is only mildly above average.

My income would immediately be better if a few years back I followed my railroad job to Nebraska. Darn family is all local though. More importantly I have a simple enough life I can absorb health insurance costs since I am both smart enough to work for decent money and smart be able to turn a couple wrenches and avoid the financial disaster of buying new depreciating automobiles.

But back to the health insurance topic. Do you agree with everything I said?

If your statement was an indication you think Americans need to work harder on the whole I also agree. We employ a couple fellas who are content with their 32 hour work weeks and complain when we "force" more on them this time of year.

 

[Trajan]

It strikes me as curious that not a single thing on that list is fact.

Not that curious. Distortions are pretty old-hat at this point.

the long term care prgm. portion of obama care is a shambles- true or false?

the plan double counts approx. $500 billion in 'savings'..- true or false?

 

[Trajan]

The CBO put the cost of the December tax cut/tax extension at 800 billion.

How does THAT compare in cost to the healthcare bill?

 

[The T]

The CBO put the cost of the December tax cut/tax extension at 800 billion.

How does THAT compare in cost to the healthcare bill?

Good call. Carbonated is good at erecting those.

 

[Rozman]

Yeh but it lets the kiddies stay on Mommy and Daddy's insurance until they are like 40 or something right.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You'll be disappointed to learn that I pay as much attention to your orders as every other female who has had the pleasure of making your acquaintance...

I suspected that level of critical thinking would be a bit beyond you. If you've reached the point where you're actually admitting you can't read a source document to evaluate claims you've heard about it, it might be time to wrap up this thread. Maybe next time you can share with us a chain email you've received or something.

You don't really think you have the ability to manipulate me.....do you?

You must be a squirrel’s version of heaven.

Let me repeat for the hard-of-thinking:
Everything I have posted is true, and your reponse, boiled down, is 'it doesn't say that will happen......so there!"

But you did manage to include my fav part of a liberal's post: "Maybe next time you can share with us ..."

I love that "us" thing; it is so illustrative.

There are only three venues in which one can use "us" when referring to himself: royalty, newspaper editors, or those who have a tapeworm.

But liberals often assuage the fear of standing alone, on their own two hooves, and hide behind "us," as though the entire world is supporting their drivel.

As you did.

One can only assume that at some deep, deep level, folks like you, or "us," know that they will be open to the ridicule that they so richly deserve, and may be able to hide behind that imaginary, delusive "us.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe it will cost us money as a nation. Less money than would be sucked out if we do not do this right. Economy of scale.

Just someday, someone (meaning most of us who have less than 10 million of liquid assests) will be unable to afford a 10k a dose pill that will extend our lives if taken three times daily. Worst part is we will know the pill exists and have to watch our mother, ourself, or our kid die a few years sooner because neither ourself or the nation can afford it.

Forcing everyone to pay into insurance puts off this day. It buys time for the medical research industry to quit focusing on wonder drugs and switch to finding ways to make existing treatments cheaper.

Immediately a properly implemented healthcare plan will cost little. In forty(???) years as costs rise premiums to fund it may be too much for the population as a whole to pay.

How about you work harder and make 10 million and stop asking for the nation to take care of you?

Oops, bad assumption if you ASS Ume I am not working on it lol. But despite what standardized testing would make you think my income is only mildly above average.

My income would immediately be better if a few years back I followed my railroad job to Nebraska. Darn family is all local though. More importantly I have a simple enough life I can absorb health insurance costs since I am both smart enough to work for decent money and smart be able to turn a couple wrenches and avoid the financial disaster of buying new depreciating automobiles.

But back to the health insurance topic. Do you agree with everything I said?

If your statement was an indication you think Americans need to work harder on the whole I also agree. We employ a couple fellas who are content with their 32 hour work weeks and complain when we "force" more on them this time of year.

Snide as my comment seemed, and was, in all honesty I hope that the day is not far off when you have reached nuclear fission- not in the Japan sense, but in the financial sense.

 

[Foxfyre]

Emily Miller writes on the day of infamy...I mean anniversary of Obamacare...
Here is the outline.

"These are the top 10 failures of ObamaCare, starting with those that have had the most serious effect already on the economy, jobs, and the American people.

1. Explodes the Budget Deficit

2. Kills Jobs

3. Lose Your Own Doctor and Health Plan

4. States’ Budget Deficits Grow to Possible Bankruptcy

5. Higher Insurance Premiums:

6. Crushes Businesses

7. Fewer Americans Have Access to Health Insurance

8. Senior Citizens Lose Medicare Coverage:

9. Overburdens Small Business

10. Tax Hikes
Top 10 Failures of ObamaCare After One Year - HUMAN EVENTS

OK, one more opportunity to you Lefties to apologize...
...and genuflecting would be nice.


Waiting.

Every item on that list is either blatantly incorrect or a severe distortion of reality. How sad that people actually believe crap like this rather then do their own research.

But you see a lot of us HAVE done our own research--we've read Heritage Foundation, CATO, Forbes, Business Investors, WSJ, Reason Magazine, and others from both left leaning and right leaning--which is why we can thank PC's post that summarizes the net effects of Obamacare.

 

[Greenbeard]

You don't really think you have the ability to manipulate me.....do you?

No, it's become pretty clear that you're manipulable by the Paul Ryans of the world, not those who ask that you think critically for yourself. If you're asking if I think I can convince you to try and support the nonsense you're spouting by drawing from the source material, the answer would have to be no. I'm under no illusions that you'll try and do that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe it will cost us money as a nation. Less money than would be sucked out if we do not do this right. Economy of scale.

Just someday, someone (meaning most of us who have less than 10 million of liquid assests) will be unable to afford a 10k a dose pill that will extend our lives if taken three times daily. Worst part is we will know the pill exists and have to watch our mother, ourself, or our kid die a few years sooner because neither ourself or the nation can afford it.

Forcing everyone to pay into insurance puts off this day. It buys time for the medical research industry to quit focusing on wonder drugs and switch to finding ways to make existing treatments cheaper.

Immediately a properly implemented healthcare plan will cost little. In forty(???) years as costs rise premiums to fund it may be too much for the population as a whole to pay.

How about you work harder and make 10 million and stop asking for the nation to take care of you?

Oops, bad assumption if you ASS Ume I am not working on it lol. But despite what standardized testing would make you think my income is only mildly above average.

My income would immediately be better if a few years back I followed my railroad job to Nebraska. Darn family is all local though. More importantly I have a simple enough life I can absorb health insurance costs since I am both smart enough to work for decent money and smart be able to turn a couple wrenches and avoid the financial disaster of buying new depreciating automobiles.

But back to the health insurance topic. Do you agree with everything I said?

If your statement was an indication you think Americans need to work harder on the whole I also agree. We employ a couple fellas who are content with their 32 hour work weeks and complain when we "force" more on them this time of year.

On a serious note, I do not believe that the current debate about healthcare is framed correctly.

Once you look at the multiplicity of items that are not included in the Obama scam, items which intuitively would reduce costs for all who wish healthcare insurance, then I suggest that we follow Sherlock Holme's dictum:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

And that truth is that the statist-collectivists wish to take over the healthcare system. More rules, more regulations, more control.....but not, as it was originally sold, cheaper, cover all, let you keep your doctor....

"...absorb health insurance costs ..."
Let's reframe the discussion: why do you suppose we are not having the same debate about auto insurance?

Exaclty.

The Left wants this, and will do everything they can to see tha you have no choice but to "absorb health insurance costs."

Did you note a number of simple ideas in this thread that would reduce costs? And are not in the 2300 page bill that had to be passed so we could find out what's in it?

 

[Trajan]

You don't really think you have the ability to manipulate me.....do you?

No, it's become pretty clear that you're manipulable by the Paul Ryans of the world, not those who ask that you think critically for yourself. If you're asking if I think I can convince you to try and support the nonsense you're spouting by drawing from the source material, the answer would have to be no. I'm under no illusions that you'll try and do that.

the long term care prgm. portion of obama care is a shambles- true or false?

the plan double counts approx. $500 billion in 'savings'..- true or false?

 

[The T]

How about you work harder and make 10 million and stop asking for the nation to take care of you?

Oops, bad assumption if you ASS Ume I am not working on it lol. But despite what standardized testing would make you think my income is only mildly above average.

My income would immediately be better if a few years back I followed my railroad job to Nebraska. Darn family is all local though. More importantly I have a simple enough life I can absorb health insurance costs since I am both smart enough to work for decent money and smart be able to turn a couple wrenches and avoid the financial disaster of buying new depreciating automobiles.

But back to the health insurance topic. Do you agree with everything I said?

If your statement was an indication you think Americans need to work harder on the whole I also agree. We employ a couple fellas who are content with their 32 hour work weeks and complain when we "force" more on them this time of year.

On a serious note, I do not believe that the current debate about healthcare is framed correctly.

Once you look at the multiplicity of items that are not include in the Obama scam, items which intuitively would reduce costs for all who wish healthcare insurance, then I suggest that we follow Sherlock Holme's dictum:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

And that truth is that the statist-collectivists wish to take over the healthcare system. More rules, more regulations, more control.....but not, as it was originally sold, cheaper, cover all, let you keep your doctor....

"...absorb health insurance costs ..."
Let's reframe the discussion: why do you suppose we are not having the same debate about auto insurance?

Exaclty.

The Left wants this, and will do everything they can to see tha you have no choice but to "absorb health insurance costs."

Did you note a number of simple ideas in this thread that would reduce costs? And are not in the 2300 page bill that had to be passed so we could find out what's in it?

It all boils down to whom is controlling this issue...the Government versus the people...

The Government in my opinion should step off. They Constitutionally have NO DOG in this fight other than to protect the liberty of those of us that DO between us and our chosen path.

Government is blazing a path of thier choosing...or else.

 

[Foxfyre]

You don't really think you have the ability to manipulate me.....do you?

No, it's become pretty clear that you're manipulable by the Paul Ryans of the world, not those who ask that you think critically for yourself. If you're asking if I think I can convince you to try and support the nonsense you're spouting by drawing from the source material, the answer would have to be no. I'm under no illusions that you'll try and do that.

the long term care prgm. portion of obama care is a shambles- true or false?

the plan double counts approx. $500 billion in 'savings'..- true or false?

The most telling and damning reality of Obamacare is the growing number of Democrats who now realize the damage that it is doing and will do and who agree it needs to be reworked. For them the issue is not whether parts of it need to be repealed and redone but whether it is done piecemeal or just throw the whole thing out and start over as most Republicans favor.

I'm with the GOP on this one. Throw the whole thing out and focus on REAL and GENUINE healthcare reform that IS the prerogative of the Federal government so that the states can deal with it legally and effectively as is best for their people. The Federal government has never in its entire history devised a one-size-fits-all entitlement or social program that has not resulted in more negatives than positives. We don't want the Federal government in control of our healthcare.

 

[The T]

No, it's become pretty clear that you're manipulable by the Paul Ryans of the world, not those who ask that you think critically for yourself. If you're asking if I think I can convince you to try and support the nonsense you're spouting by drawing from the source material, the answer would have to be no. I'm under no illusions that you'll try and do that.

the long term care prgm. portion of obama care is a shambles- true or false?

the plan double counts approx. $500 billion in 'savings'..- true or false?

The most telling and damning reality of Obamacare is the growing number of Democrats who now realize the damage that it is doing and will do and who agree it needs to be reworked. For them the issue is not whether parts of it need to be repealed and redone but whether it is done piecemeal or just throw the whole thing out and start over as most Republicans favor.

I'm with the GOP on this one. Throw the whole thing out and focus on REAL and GENUINE healthcare reform that IS the prerogative of the Federal government so that the states can deal with it legally and effectively as is best for their people. The Federal government has never in its entire history devised a one-size-fits-all entitlement or social program that has not resulted in more negatives than positives. We don't want the Federal government in control of our healthcare.

Agreed. Throw it out...and interesting that many that supported it are now applying for Waivers from it...

 

[RDD_1210]

the long term care prgm. portion of obama care is a shambles- true or false?

the plan double counts approx. $500 billion in 'savings'..- true or false?

The most telling and damning reality of Obamacare is the growing number of Democrats who now realize the damage that it is doing and will do and who agree it needs to be reworked. For them the issue is not whether parts of it need to be repealed and redone but whether it is done piecemeal or just throw the whole thing out and start over as most Republicans favor.

I'm with the GOP on this one. Throw the whole thing out and focus on REAL and GENUINE healthcare reform that IS the prerogative of the Federal government so that the states can deal with it legally and effectively as is best for their people. The Federal government has never in its entire history devised a one-size-fits-all entitlement or social program that has not resulted in more negatives than positives. We don't want the Federal government in control of our healthcare.

Agreed. Throw it out...and interesting that many that supported it are now applying for Waivers from it...

False. Waivers to improve upon it, is not the same as Waivers to be excluded because you are against it which is what you seem to believe and would be incorrect.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The CBO put the cost of the December tax cut/tax extension at 800 billion.

How does THAT compare in cost to the healthcare bill?

Every rightwinger in this thread, for starters, who is complaining about the alleged cost of the healthcare bill SUPPORTED the budget - busting tax cut passed in December.

Why is that?