10 Reasons Not To Honor Israel

[JStone]

Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Five Books of Moses either.

Jerusalem is mentioned 700 times in the Tanakh, Pinocchio

Jerusalem is mentioned zero times in the Quran, Pinocchio

 

[Baruch Menachem]

If this is the best you got, you might as well give up

 

[HUGGY]

1- On June 8, 1967, Israeli air and naval forces suddenly and brutally attacked the USS Liberty, a US naval intelligence ship flying a large Old Glory in international waters on a clear summer day. Thirty-four American sailors were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded.

Proof? I don't remember this happening, probably because you left out some major context.

2- In 2003 U.S. citizen and peace activist Rachel Corrie was run down with a bulldozer by an Israeli Occupation soldier while she was attempting to prevent a home demolition. The soldier was never charged with her death.

Good riddance. I remember this. She sided with the Palastinians all I have to say is:



What were they doing there? Context is important.



Good for Isreal.



That's an easy one. The UN is anti-semitic. Always has been.

6- Israel recently shunned a US president by refusing a settlement-freeze offer on stolen Palestinian land in return for a 10 billion dollar incentive (bribe.)

Because Obama the Idiot made them an offer that was absolutely rediculous and one he knew full well that they wouldn't accept. Shunning Obama alone, is worth praising them for.

7- Israel is the only Middle Eastern country where sodomy is not a crime nor punishable. Israel also allows abortion, has a “tramp tax” for prostitutes, an increasing rate of cohabitation and premarital sex, acceptance of party life and heavy drinking, immodest clothing, etc. Israeli media portrays Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) as a bastard and Mary as a whore. Why does Christians United for Israel prefer to be associated with a country whose hedonism rivals Sodom and Gomorrah?

You'll need to provide proof of this. The Israeli Media does no such thing. Interesting that you should be so worried about Jesus' reputation concidering your avie.


So yeah, Kudos to Isreal.

Proof? I don't remember this happening, probably because you left out some major context.

You stupid ****. It absolutely did happen just as described by the OP.. Fuck you traitor!

 

[JStone]

Dr. Wafa Sultan, Human Rights Activist, Among "Time magazine's 100 heroes and pioneers whose power, talent or moral example is transforming our world" Wafa Sultan - The 2006 TIME 100 - TIME.

I believe that any nation that grants equal opportunity to every citizen, regardless of race, religion, political affiliation, or gender, thereby, establishes its moral legitimacy. According to this principle, Israel stands alone in the Middle East region, as a nation with moral legitimacy: it grants all citizens equal rights for men and women alike, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech and of the press. Not a single Arab or Muslim country in the surrounding region does the same. Nor do any of those Arab and Muslim nations allow their citizens personal freedom, or the right to maintain and express opposing points of view.

A Palestinian women's organization reported that Muslim men perpetrate some 40 honor killings annually in the West Bank alone, not including the vast majority of honor killing and abuse of women that go unreported -- as Islamic society maintains secrecy in upholding the popular belief that those "cursed with a sin, [should] hide it."

These essential qualities of life provide oxygen for the human soul; they are the kind of basic nourishment that is desperately missing in all of Israel's Muslim neighbors. Yet, the so-called humanitarian aid organizations at the United Nations direct all their energy to act against anything and everything Israel does. Let me ask: as every human being deserves to live in dignity, why has an enormous unbalanced portion of global aid gone mostly to Palestinians, while millions of underprivileged people all over the world suffer genuine, life-threatening deprivation?

Here is why: The United Nations time and again focuses its power on the perpetual manufacturing of false anti-Israel accusations. Painting Palestinians as perennial underdogs provides the perfect cover for their subversive effort. Without doubt, this trend encourages hatred and violence against the Jewish people in Israel and everywhere else. And that is exactly its point.

Those who love liberty and life will strengthen their ties and warm relations with Israel, and stand with her. Israel will continue to shine its light among all nations.

 

[pgm]

As I've demonstrated, you know less than zero.

Jerusalem appears 700 times in the Hebrew Bible.

Can you show us where al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so

First of all, how is it possible to have a negative amount of knowledge.
Second, can you show us where I said al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so.
Third, do you understand Arabic? Do you understand how Semitic languages work? QDS = Holiness in both Arabic and Hebrew (also in Aramaic). Arabic and Hebrew have tons of cognates.

Arabic:
Jerusalem is القدس (al-Quds)
Holiness is قداسة (qedash)
Btw, if you google the second word, the Hebrew/Aramaic Kaddish comes up (קדי&#1513. That is Aramaic for "Holiness" as well (and a Jewish prayer).

The two words share a common root. When the Arabs arrived in Israel, they heard the Jews calling the city, "The Holy," so they started calling it that too. That's all I was saying. It comes from Hebrew, but it isn't a transliteration.

 

[JStone]

As I've demonstrated, you know less than zero.

Jerusalem appears 700 times in the Hebrew Bible.

Can you show us where al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so

First of all, how is it possible to have a negative amount of knowledge.
Second, can you show us where I said al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so.
Third, do you understand Arabic? Do you understand how Semitic languages work? QDS = Holiness in both Arabic and Hebrew (also in Aramaic). Arabic and Hebrew have tons of cognates.

Arabic:
Jerusalem is القدس (al-Quds)
Holiness is قداسة (qedash)
Btw, if you google the second word, the Hebrew/Aramaic Kaddish comes up (קדי&#1513. That is Aramaic for "Holiness" as well (and a Jewish prayer).

The two words share a common root. When the Arabs arrived in Israel, they heard the Jews calling the city, "The Holy," so they started calling it that too. That's all I was saying. It comes from Hebrew, but it isn't a transliteration.

Er, Jerusalem is not an Arabic nor Hebrew word. It was called Salem by the Canaanites who were not Arabs. The Jebusites, also not Arabs, fused the lands of Jeru and Salem to form Jerusalem

Can you show us where Jerusalem appears in the Quran? Nope, you can't.

Jerusalem appears several hundreds of times in the Hebrew Bible.

 

[pgm]

Second, can you show us where I said al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so.
Third, do you understand Arabic? Do you understand how Semitic languages work? QDS = Holiness in both Arabic and Hebrew (also in Aramaic). Arabic and Hebrew have tons of cognates.

Arabic:
Jerusalem is القدس (al-Quds)
Holiness is قداسة (qedash)
Btw, if you google the second word, the Hebrew/Aramaic Kaddish comes up (קדי&#1513. That is Aramaic for "Holiness" as well (and a Jewish prayer).

The two words share a common root. When the Arabs arrived in Israel, they heard the Jews calling the city, "The Holy," so they started calling it that too. That's all I was saying. It comes from Hebrew, but it isn't a transliteration.

Er, Jerusalem is not an Arabic nor Hebrew word. It was called Salem by the Canaanites who were not Arabs. The Jebusites, also not Arabs, fused the lands of Jeru and Salem to form Jerusalem

Can you show us where Jerusalem appears in the Quran? Nope, you can't.

Jerusalem appears several hundreds of times in the Hebrew Bible.

Can you stop with this putting-words-in-my-mouth-and-then-arguing-against-them bullshit? I never said Jerusalem was an Arabic word. I said al-Quds comes from an Arabic words and is not a simple transliteration of "Ha Qodesh." If anything, it is a translation of Ha Qodesh and not a transliteration. Any similarity in sound has to do with the similarity between the two Semitic languages.

 

[JStone]

Second, can you show us where I said al Quds appears in the Quran? No, I didn't think so.
Third, do you understand Arabic? Do you understand how Semitic languages work? QDS = Holiness in both Arabic and Hebrew (also in Aramaic). Arabic and Hebrew have tons of cognates.

Arabic:
Jerusalem is القدس (al-Quds)
Holiness is قداسة (qedash)
Btw, if you google the second word, the Hebrew/Aramaic Kaddish comes up (קדי&#1513. That is Aramaic for "Holiness" as well (and a Jewish prayer).

The two words share a common root. When the Arabs arrived in Israel, they heard the Jews calling the city, "The Holy," so they started calling it that too. That's all I was saying. It comes from Hebrew, but it isn't a transliteration.

Er, Jerusalem is not an Arabic nor Hebrew word. It was called Salem by the Canaanites who were not Arabs. The Jebusites, also not Arabs, fused the lands of Jeru and Salem to form Jerusalem

Can you show us where Jerusalem appears in the Quran? Nope, you can't.

Jerusalem appears several hundreds of times in the Hebrew Bible.

Can you stop with this putting-words-in-my-mouth-and-then-arguing-against-them bullshit? I never said Jerusalem was an Arabic word. I said al-Quds comes from an Arabic words and is not a simple transliteration of "Ha Qodesh." If anything, it is a translation of Ha Qodesh and not a transliteration. Any similarity in sound has to do with the similarity between the two Semitic languages.

You are wrong, once, again. The Arabic al-Quds [the holy] is merely the Arabized Hebrew ha-Qodesh [the holy spirit]

Earlier, the Arabs called Jerusalem Iliya, the Arabized Roman/Latin name Aelia that Hadrian renamed Jerusalem when the Jewish capital [Aelia Capitolina] .

The Arabic Madinat Bayt al Maqdis [city of the holy house] is the Arabized Hebrew Beit ha-Miqdash [the house of the sanctuary] Arabs shortened the name to al-Maqdis and finally to al-Quds.

Arabs copied the Hebrew expressions for Jerusalem as Jews were there first, having made Jerusalem their capital over 1500 years before the Arab invasion. Muhammad never set foot in Jerusalem nor has any Arab nation been established in Jerusalem

Neither Jerusalem nor al-Quds appear in the Quran, reflecting its unimportance. Jerusalem appears 700 times in the Hebrew Bible.

 

[pgm]

You are wrong, once, again. The Arabic al-Quds [the holy] is merely the Arabized Hebrew ha-Qodesh [the holy spirit]

Arabs copied the Hebrew expressions for Jerusalem as Jews were there first, having made Jerusalem their capital over 1500 years before the Arab invasion.

[I cut out all the stuff that was irrelevant.]

The Arabs copied Hebrew expressions. They translated (Arabized) the Hebrew word into Arabic. "Al" is Arabic for "the" and "Quds" is Arabic for "Holy." So, we are in complete agreement.

It was not a transliteration like (for example) the village of Silwan, which comes from the Hebrew Shiloah via the Greek Siloam. Or, if you prefer, Filastin is a transliteration. These are words that did not exist in Arabic, so they simply copied the pronunciations. Al Quds, on the other hand, was a translation.

 

[JStone]

You are wrong, once, again. The Arabic al-Quds [the holy] is merely the Arabized Hebrew ha-Qodesh [the holy spirit]

Arabs copied the Hebrew expressions for Jerusalem as Jews were there first, having made Jerusalem their capital over 1500 years before the Arab invasion.

[I cut out all the stuff that was irrelevant.]

The Arabs copied Hebrew expressions. They translated (Arabized) the Hebrew word into Arabic. "Al" is Arabic for "the" and "Quds" is Arabic for "Holy." So, we are in complete agreement.

It was not a transliteration like (for example) the village of Silwan, which comes from the Hebrew Shiloah via the Greek Siloam. Or, if you prefer, Filastin is a transliteration. These are words that did not exist in Arabic, so they simply copied the pronunciations. Al Quds, on the other hand, was a translation.

Your gibberish aside, the bottom line is Jerusalem has no legitimate significance to Arabs and Muslims.

Jews made Jerusalem their capital 1500+ years before Mahomet was even born and Islam invented. Jerusalem has never been a Muslim capital.

Not other nation except the Jewish nation has been established in Jerusalem in 3000 years.

Muslims pray to Mecca, not Jerusalem. Muslims make the hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, not Jerusalem.

Jews pray to Jerusalem. Jerusalem appears 700 times in the Hebrew Bible. Jerusalem appears not once in the Quran.

Foremost Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis points to Arabs stealing from the Jews...

The Arabic name of the city of Jerusalem, al-Quds, is of comparatively late appearance. In the earliest Arabic references, from the time of the prophet and shortly after, Jerusalem is normally called Iliya, from Aelia, the name which the Romans gave to the city in the second century, or, in full, as Iliya madinat bayt al-maqdis, "Aelia, the city of the temple" Later, the city is referred to as Bayt al-Maqdis, and then simply as al-Quds. The resemblance to the ancient Hebrew Bayt ha-Miqdash and ha-Qodesh will be obvious.

Bernard Lewis also points to the insignificance of Jerusalem to Islamic history...

For some time now, it has come to be generally accepted by Muslims that Jerusalem is a holy city; indeed, most rank it third after Mecca and Medina. This was, however, by no means always accepted by Muslims, and in earlier times there was strong resistance among many [Muslim] theologians and jurists who regarded this notion as a Judaizing error--as one more among many attempts by Jewish converts [to Islam] to infiltrate Jewish ideas or practices into Islam. A story told by the great ninth-century historian Tabari, describing a visit by the caliph Umar to the newly conquered city of Jerusalem, illustrates the point:

"When Umar came...to Aelia [Roman Latin name for Jerusalem after Jewish rebellion]]...he said, "bring me Ka'b" [Jewish convert to Islam] Ka'b was brought to him and Umar asked him, "Where do you think we should put the place of prayer?"

"By the Rock," [in Jerusalem] answered Ka'b. "By God, Ka'b," said Umar, "you are following after Judaism. I saw you take off your sandals."

"I wanted to feel the touch of it with my bare feet," said Ka'b. "I saw you," said Umar. "but no...we were not commanded concerning the Rock [in Jerusalem], but we were commanded concerning the Ka'ba [in Mecca]"

Ka'b al-Ahbar was a well-known Jewish convert to Islam and an important figure often cited in connection with what are seen as Judaizing insertions into true Islamic doctrine. The point of the story clearly is that the sanctity of Jerusalem is a Jewish, not a Muslim, belief, that Ka'b was a fault in maintaining it despite his conversion, and that only Mecca is the direction of prayer and the place of pilgrimage for Muslims.

 

[pgm]

Your gibberish aside, the bottom line is Jerusalem has no legitimate significance to Arabs and Muslims.

Gibberish because you fail at reading comprehension and logic. You couldn't understand my simple point, so you just thought it was more important to "beat" me.

Actually, I was just tired of the same old same old in these topics, so I thought I'd look at something new. I decided to look at the name of Jerusalem in Arabic because history, linguistics and ethnic migration fascinates me and the name of Jerusalem seemed like an interesting topic that I never delved into before. Do you think the old name "Salem" (SLM) comes from a Semitic root meaning "peace" (as in the Hebrew Shalom or Arabic Salam) or from the Canaanite god Shalim? The Ancient Egyptians called it Urušalimum (Foundation of SLM).

Anyway, to bring this back to the issue of the Palestinian claim to Jerusalem, you and I agree on one basic premise. The Arabs took the names of the region from ones that were already there--whether it be Hebrew names or Greek (Roman) names. As I believe you have pointed out, the Arabs had two early names for Jerusalem--Madinat bayt al-Maqdis (The City of the Temple) and Iliya (coming from the Roman Aelia). The first referred to the part of the city where the temple was and the second to the outer part of the city. I think the use of Iliya proves my point that the Arabs took the local names (in this case the Roman name as there were no Jews allowed into Jerusalem between the time the Romans expelled them and the Arabs conquered the city).

So, as I clearly admit the Arabs are outsiders, why do I still claim they have a connection to Jerusalem? Two reasons. The first is because Arab identity is something that was assimilated by many people who were already living there including both the Muslims and the Jews and Christians who did not convert. There are many Arabs in Israel who descended from the Arab conquerors as well as Arabs who descended from Egyptians (and moved to Israel in the 19th Century). But the vast majority of those who call themselves "Palestinian" today came from the people who lived in the land the Greeks and later Arabs called "Palestine."

The second reason is because it was the home of the Palestinian Arabs. In 1948, it was the historical home of all the Jews and the present home of many of the Jews, but it was indisputably the present home of all the Palestinians. Even if the Palestinians do not have a distinct identity that stretches back 3000 years (or honestly 300), they were still forced/fled from their homes to avoid violence in a war. The UDHR says all humans have a right of return.

However, this no longer being 1948, I recognize that not all wrongs can be righted. I don't think America should be given back to the American Indians. You can't give Palestinians back their grandfathers' homes without kicking an Israeli family out of their homes, so I don't think a full right of return is the best solution. That is why I advocate a two-state solution. Give the Palestinians a viable sovereign state consisting mostly of the land they currently live on (i.e. the Gaza Strip and what is referred to by most as the "West Bank"). However, I sympathize with those who think there should be one Palestinian state that consists of all of the British Mandate of Palestine where Jews, Muslims and Christians can live side by side in peace. I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for that highly unrealistic idea to materialize.

If you would like, I can go into the Muslim connection to Jerusalem, which I believe is completely different from the Palestinian connection to Jerusalem (although they would argue with me completely).

 

[JStone]

The second reason is because it was the home of the Palestinian Arabs. In 1948, it was the historical home of all the Jews and the present home of many of the Jews, but it was indisputably the present home of all the Palestinians.

Jews were Palestinians under the British Mandate prior to Israeli statehood in 1948. The Jerusalem Post was the Palestine Post.

Most of your Palestinians are recent invaders to Israel under the British Mandate who migrated to take advantage of Jewish prosperity.

Three common "Palestinian" surnames reflect their real place of origin: al-Masri [the Egyptian], al-Iraqi and Maghrebi [Maghreb, Africa]

John F. Kennedy, prior to Jewish immigration...

When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland... I went to Palestine in 1939; and I saw there an unhappy land...For century after century, Romans, Turks, Christians, Moslems, Pagans, British – all had conquered the Holy Land – but none could make it prosper. In the words of Israel Zangwill: “The land without a people waited for the people without a land.” The realm where once milk and honey flowed, and civilization flourished, was in 1939 a barren realm – barren of hope and cheer and progress as well as crops and industries – a gloomy picture for a young man paying his first visit from the United States

Winston Churchill, Secretary of Palestine, to British Parliament, after Jewish immigration...

So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.

John F. Kennedy...

12 years later, in 1951, I traveled again to the land by the River Jordan – this time as a Member of the Congress of the United States – and this time to see first-hand the new State of Israel. The transformation which had taken place could not have been more complete. For between the time of my visit in 1939 and my visit in 1951, a nation had been reborn – a desert had been reclaimed – and a national integrity had been redeemed, after 2,000 years of seemingly endless waiting. Zion had at least been restored – and she had promptly opened her arms to the homeless and the weary and the persecuted. It was the “Ingathering of the Exiles” – they had heard the call of their homeland; and they had come, brands plucked from the burning – they had come from concentration camps and ghettoes, from distant exile and dangerous sanctuary, from broken homes in Poland and lonely huts in Yemen, like the ancient strangers in a strange land they had come. And Israel received them all, fed them, housed them, cared for them, bound up their wounds, and enlisted them in the struggle to build a new nation.

John F. Kennedy...

The technical skills and genius of Israel have already brought their blessings to Burma and to Ethiopia. Still other nations in Asia and in Africa are eager to benefit from the special skills available in that bustling land

Palestinians are the illegal Mexican aliens of the Middle East.

 

[Ropey]

The second reason is because it was the home of the Palestinian Arabs. In 1948, it was the historical home of all the Jews and the present home of many of the Jews, but it was indisputably the present home of all the Palestinians.

And the ones that were in that 78% of the Palestinian Partition granted to Trans-Jordan?

 

[pgm]

I'm not referring to those. I would say Jordan was their home, not Israel/Palestine. (Although the country of Jordan is definitely more fake than the others).

Still Transjordan was part of Palestine because the Brits drew their squiggles that way. It never had much connection to the area the Arabs called Palestine. That's why most of the Palestinian leaders saw union with Syria as a good idea, but union with Jordan to be much more contentious. Still, they all agreed that present-day Israel would be part of it.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I should name my butt Israel so everyone would kiss my ass.

 

[MikeK]

1- On June 8, 1967, Israeli air and naval forces suddenly and brutally attacked the USS Liberty, a US naval intelligence ship flying a large Old Glory in international waters on a clear summer day. Thirty-four American sailors were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded.

Multiple US commisisons concluded an unintentional accident.

[...]

The U.S. Congress conducted a protracted, costly, full-scale investigation of the Clinton blowjob but there never has been a formal investigation of Israel's attack on the Liberty which was an act of war and has resulted in multiple charges of murder in international waters. "Commissions" put forth opinions, which are subject to political influence. A "commission paper" is not an investigation. Why, in spite of numerous formal requests by the Liberty's crew and by survivors of those sailors killed in the attack, has there not been a formal investigation of that incident? Why?

The members of whatever "commissions" you're referring to were not aboard the USS Liberty when she was attacked. The Captain, his officers and his crew were aboard and they unanimously insist the attack was intentional.

Anyone who wishes to learn the facts need only read Lt. James Ennis' book, Assault On The Liberty. He was the ship's Executive Officer. He was there. Neither he nor any other member of the crew have cause to lie. Both the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of The Navy at that time have unequivocally stated, in defiance of LBJ's insistence to the contrary, their belief that based on all the facts it is clear to them that the attack was intentional and sustained.

http://www.ussliberty.org/]USS Liberty Memorial

http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

The Big Lie

 

[pgm]

Most of your Palestinians are recent invaders to Israel under the British Mandate who migrated to take advantage of Jewish prosperity.

There was some influx of Egyptians and other North Africans in the 19th Century because of wars. But Israel had been predominantly Muslim and Arab throughout the history of the Ottoman Empire. It did have the largest Jewish population in the Ottoman Empire, of course.

Three common "Palestinian" surnames reflect their real place of origin: al-Masri [the Egyptian], al-Iraqi and Maghrebi [Maghreb, Africa]

I know you think you have a gotcha point, but you don't. It's not uncommon for people to adopt the surnames of rulers through marriage or some sort of conversion. Three of the most popular surnames in Peru (one of the places in South America with the least amount of Spanish blood) are Flores, Sanchez and Rodriguez. Need me to go on? Garcia, Rojas, Gonzales... That actually started with the 2nd most popular name in Peru.

 

[Ropey]

I'm not referring to those. I would say Jordan was their home, not Israel/Palestine. (Although the country of Jordan is definitely more fake than the others).

Still Transjordan was part of Palestine because the Brits drew their squiggles that way. It never had much connection to the area the Arabs called Palestine. That's why most of the Palestinian leaders saw union with Syria as a good idea, but union with Jordan to be much more contentious. Still, they all agreed that present-day Israel would be part of it.

Both sides of the negotiators do not see it that way. Thankfully they have been past that for a good many years.

That's why people want to keep going back. They don't want to move forward or they are willing to just go back for the sake of going back.

If we are going to go back, then the time of Abraham is good.

I prefer today though as then I can deal with the issue of the West Bank and Gaza with East Jerusalem as a Capital. If Israel is attacked and if a war comes, then my mind will go back to total ownership of Judea and Samaria and who knows what else. So I don't go into the future much either.

So, why would I go back to when Israel held Judea and Samaria? To reminisce? OK.

But the reality stands and I believe you are further away from it than both sides of the negotiations with regard to return and land swaps.

 

[strollingbones]

fools who believe the foreign government over their own sailors


USS Liberty - Israeli Pilot Speaks Up

 

[strollingbones]

uss liberty was in international waters flying an american flag when attacked