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We condemn corporate leaders for private jets and expensive vacations, and they steal from the shareholders. This kind of practice in NY steals from the taxpayers. They are both wrong.
Inappropriate. Off topic.We condemn corporate leaders for private jets and expensive vacations, and they steal from the shareholders. This kind of practice in NY steals from the taxpayers. They are both wrong.
Playing devil's advocate here only a little bit, why not? Why can't union business be done during non business hours? Shouldn't teachers participating in union negotiations be doing that on their own time and not during the taxpayer's time? I have done a ton of voluneer work and also participated on employee committees and it was always on my own time, not my employers' time.
how's the medicare part b treating you, willow?
wow my dear Jilly. SO uncalled for.
tsk tsk
Then you should have been paid by your union, not your employer. And if you are publicly employed, certainly NOT the taxpayers.Willow, I cannot speak for the activities of these teachers specifically, or what the United Federation of Teachers is having them do, but I can say that as a Union Steward and as someone who sat on the Negotiating Team for our last Contract, there are times when Union business does need to be carried out during the regular workday. I missed probably an average of part to all of one day every two weeks for Union Business between January of 2009 and March 31, 2010 related to the negotiations for our contract.
Without the ability to do certain (not all, but certain) business during regular work hours, Unions cease to exist as a viable entity. Whether it's negotiations, grievance hearings, etc... some of these things just cannot be done after hours.
Playing devil's advocate here only a little bit, why not? Why can't union business be done during non business hours? Shouldn't teachers participating in union negotiations be doing that on their own time and not during the taxpayer's time? I have done a ton of voluneer work and also participated on employee committees and it was always on my own time, not my employers' time.
Lets take a look at the situation I deal with. I work for a utility company with workers in Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and from end to end in Massachusetts. To bring everyone together in a common location would require at least a 2 hour one way drive for many of the people. We are a shifted workforce. In many cases the people who need to get together do not necessarily work the same shift, in terms of hours, days, or both in some cases.
In terms of negotiations, this is what you seem to be suggesting..... We all get off of work around 3:30pm. We all travel to the negotiation location to meet with the company. We get started at 6:00. We negotiate for 6 hours, leaving at midnight. It takes some of these people 2 hours to get home. Then they're expected to be at work by 7:30 the next morning. Do you see how ridiculous that is to suggest?
Most of our internal Union business is carried out off-hours. However, if I have to have a meeting with my supervisor, his boss, the Union VP, and a member of the company's Labor Department over an issue of something the company is doing wrong, why shouldn't we be doing it on the company's time. They made the mistake, they can pay the price.
Your argument is at best, vapid.doesn't matter how much you use it. it's there when you want it.
just get rid of everyone else's benefits, right?
Jillian, mo chara, don't deflect. Respond to the OP. Right or wrong? Not a hard question.
i did respond. i chose to point out what a hypocrite she is.
Your argument is at best, vapid.Jillian, mo chara, don't deflect. Respond to the OP. Right or wrong? Not a hard question.
i did respond. i chose to point out what a hypocrite she is.
interjecting unrelated nonsense into a discussion only makes you look stupid.
BTW, you're really good at that.
When I chaired an employee grievance committee once, I can't remember it taking six hours to meet with the boss to express that grievance. It can almost always be expressed in a very few minutes and we always also expressed it in writing. And in every case, the grievances to be expressed were told to me on breaks or over the lunch hour, i.e. on the employees' time, and the committee would discuss them over lunch or after hours. I would ask to see the supervisor or boss for a few minutes after closing. Sometimes he would agree to that and sometimes he would ask me to come on to his office right then. In that case he was willingly expending the value of my time and salary--I was not demanding that he do so.
If the unions want employees to take substantial time--anything over a half hour would be substantial--doing union business, the union should pay those employees, not the boss and certainly not the taxpayer.
Willow, I cannot speak for the activities of these teachers specifically, or what the United Federation of Teachers is having them do, but I can say that as a Union Steward and as someone who sat on the Negotiating Team for our last Contract, there are times when Union business does need to be carried out during the regular workday. I missed probably an average of part to all of one day every two weeks for Union Business between January of 2009 and March 31, 2010 related to the negotiations for our contract.
Without the ability to do certain (not all, but certain) business during regular work hours, Unions cease to exist as a viable entity. Whether it's negotiations, grievance hearings, etc... some of these things just cannot be done after hours.
How Much Does Part B Cost?
If you have Part B, you pay a Part B premium each month. Most people will pay the standard premium amount. Social Security will contact some people who have to pay more depending on their income. If you don't sign up for Part B when you are first eligible, you may have to pay a late enrollment penalty
Paid into the system for 30 years.
Have paid premium fees monthly
Have paid for a supplemnt monthly
Have paid a huge deductible when I went for my yearly physical..
and Jillian wants to bitch about me and my use of medicare part B.
and those teachers took lesser salaries in order to obtain their benefits.... by virtue of collective bargaining which you're ok with stripping them of.
sure nuff... balance that budget, but not on your back, eh?
good post. I agree with your reasoning, some times things just have to be done during bus,. hours, I don't have a problem with that, however, in this particular set of circumstances they are not just letting someone walk off the line with a buddy picking up the slack or someone leaving their office work undone, they are in effect paying 2 salaries for the same work day and one block of work.
I am sure its written into the contract... but...... I do have an issue wht that.
When I chaired an employee grievance committee once, I can't remember it taking six hours to meet with the boss to express that grievance. It can almost always be expressed in a very few minutes and we always also expressed it in writing. And in every case, the grievances to be expressed were told to me on breaks or over the lunch hour, i.e. on the employees' time, and the committee would discuss them over lunch or after hours. I would ask to see the supervisor or boss for a few minutes after closing. Sometimes he would agree to that and sometimes he would ask me to come on to his office right then. In that case he was willingly expending the value of my time and salary--I was not demanding that he do so.
We don't do anything formal in a verbal manner. The employee may come to me verbally, but I end up having to sit down and write up a formal Grievance Notice if it's something we do need to deal with. That's probably 1 in 8 of the things they come to me with. From that point on it's all formal. There are no informal meetings, chats, etc... The standard Grievance hearing takes about an hour. I've been in ones that have taken up to three hours. Often times it will take up to three meetings to remedy an issue. I do know of Grievance hearings that have taken up to eight hours.
The six hours I was referring to were related to contract negotiations more than grievance hearings.
If the unions want employees to take substantial time--anything over a half hour would be substantial--doing union business, the union should pay those employees, not the boss and certainly not the taxpayer.
On the rare occasions that it is truly pure UNION Business (as compared to Union-Company business) there is a provision for the Union to pay for it. In two and a half years, I've had two total instances where that was the case.
jillian, back to the topic of the OPYour argument is at best, vapid.i did respond. i chose to point out what a hypocrite she is.
interjecting unrelated nonsense into a discussion only makes you look stupid.
BTW, you're really good at that.
i tend not to get overly offended when someone like you, with a double digit IQ, insults my intelligence.
jillian, back to the topic of the OPYour argument is at best, vapid.
interjecting unrelated nonsense into a discussion only makes you look stupid.
BTW, you're really good at that.
i tend not to get overly offended when someone like you, with a double digit IQ, insults my intelligence.
did you notice the story has nothing to do with WI?
good post. I agree with your reasoning, some times things just have to be done during bus,. hours, I don't have a problem with that, however, in this particular set of circumstances they are not just letting someone walk off the line with a buddy picking up the slack or someone leaving their office work undone, they are in effect paying 2 salaries for the same work day and one block of work.
I am sure its written into the contract... but...... I do have an issue wht that.
I agree. There definitely sounds like there's something ODD going on there. Why a Union Rep is needed 6 periods a day is beyond me. If there are that many grievances, issues, etc... then it would seem to me that the Union Leadership needs to sit down with the School District and get things worked out once and for all.
You're probably right that it's in the contract and people are taking advantage of it. That's an issue that ought to be dealt with by the Union Leadership and the School District.
Well you must not be all that insulted then. You really walked into that one ,genius.Your argument is at best, vapid.i did respond. i chose to point out what a hypocrite she is.
interjecting unrelated nonsense into a discussion only makes you look stupid.
BTW, you're really good at that.
i tend not to get overly offended when someone like you, with a double digit IQ, insults my intelligence.
Not having worked in your business, I don't have any serious problem with short term negotiations etc. so long as the employer is not required to pay overtime or take a loss because of union activities that could have been handled outside of business hours.
BUT......at some point the union is going to have to get back to the business of dealing with unethical and unfair employer relations, which is why workers originally unionized, rather than sticking it to the employer for as much as it can get regardless of whether that is good for the business or not.
OSHA and fair labor laws have taken care of most of the unfair and unethical employee relationships these days. That leaves the union mostly in the business of looking to its own power, influence, and wealth and the employer (or the taxpayer) be damned.
Until that situation is turned around, I think unions will continue to be a factor for fewer and fewer workers until they are stripped of their power entirely. Public sector employees--those supported by the taxpayer--are the last mega group to undergo serious soul searching and overhaul.
Non union shops in private industry will continue to kick butt and whittle away at the profits of the union shops unless the unions wise up. The taxpayer can bail out General Motors and Chrysler only so many times.
And the taxpayer can be asked to make up the difference in growing state and federal deficits only so long before they turn en masse against the public sector unions and say enough.
