$110,000 for Palin's hair and makeup

ah, so you punt again
you were already wrong about Lincoln

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What propaganda bubble?

For God's sake, you didn't even understand my question to you and you answered me.

I was tossing you a barb, go back and reread it dummy.

Hell anyone can pull up Obama's bio, I have read it many times.

But, if your serious about stacking experience against experience, you really should take a second look at about 7 of the names you listed. Just for the sake of understanding others.

Chris, Obama is a well educated, bright man. If he is able to apply what he knows to be correct to actually doing the fundamentals of the job, he will have a good shot at making headway.

Thus far he has done that. But honestly, right now are the easy tasks.

Since 11/4 I only have one complaint with him. He stated very clearly that change would be shown / noticeable in his picks. Thus far, that is not the case. That doesn't mean they are bad picks, it doesn't mean that they are not capable.

Chris, your entirely too defensive. Relax, your boy won. Enjoy it.

I would still take a more understanding look at 7 of the names you listed, if nothing else simply to understand others better.

We just have to disagree.

Obama has plenty of experience.

It's a bogus charge as far as I'm concerned.

I am impressed with your gesture towards a political discussion rival and willingness to acknowledge Obama's leadership strengths and ability to approach a problem in an analytical fashion. It's not seen often enough and deserves acknowledgement.


On paper they are right. There's more to it through, of course. You and I realize this, but without elaboration the people who repeat criticisms based on Obama's experience level have to reason to consider the big picture and reject the hyperbole.

Barack Obama does not bring to the table a record of political experience usually considered as ideal. However we can all reference points in our working lives where we encountered someone who achieved a position based on record of experience fell short. Experience alone doesn't make a complete package for effective leadership. Obama's intellect, education, and life experience makes what is a short resume for some more than enough for Obama.

Points to ponder on the experience topic. What did that person take away from it? What other qualities does he or she bring to the table? Such qualities such as demeanor, leadership, initiative, or problem-solving are vitally important and must be weighed alongside experience when evaluating a candidate for public office. The same holds true when hiring a Commanding General, COO, or general manager for the new supermarket.

In fact the people who push experience over everything else are usually lacking in everything else, including tolerance for facts that contradict policy or threaten ill-gained authority. "You have a point" is not in their vocabulary. For the pinheads or knuckledragging moron their paths to power and influence are parallel in ease and limited to two; crony-ism and longevity. It's these folks who need to be exposed and argued into irrelevance.

Concerning the Bush/Clinton retreads (my major concern on Obama for the moment), if he's able to draw from their experience without being unduly influenced by the undercurrent of political agendas and preexisting conflicts, he'll have more experience at his disposal than any president of modern times.

Chris, what I'm about to say comes from the point of view of supporting BO and removing the layers of unwarranted perceptions placed by the political shills who tirelessly work the flock in order to please party bosses, boost their egos, or pad their own sorry behinds with ratings and notoriety.

Bitterness does not open minds, forge alliances, or create converts. Building bridges is a far more effective strategy than creating castled walls on an ideological island. Barack Obama knows this better than anybody, his approach to politics drives the point home.

Lycurgus agreed on certain points, why not acknowledge the reference towards elements of mutual agreement? Doing so doesn't validate the not enough experience mantra. No one is going to capitulate in full, keep working on the remaining points of contention. If truth is on your side and a reasonable degree of personal and intellectual integrity is on the other eventually truth wins out. Tact together with facts breaks down walls of resentment and ultimately strengthens the most worthy cause of all - the defeat of lies


Obama's approach to politics is exactly what I'm spelling out. In fact it's the reason so many people worldwide see his election as transformational. Race and charming persona can only only go so far. It's his maturity of judgment, understanding of the world, and willingness to recognize and engage with others even if he doesn't agree that makes Barack Obama the ideal leader for our time, and even their time..

Barack Obama saw fit to invite John McCain over for a meeting. This wasn't mere political showmanship on Obama's part, he realizes McCain's experience and maverick, country first politics can prove an asset to his Presidency and the nation if he can get McCain on his side for certain issues. John McCain didn't seem to comfortable with the situation, hopefully he'll see within himself and decide to place such reservations aside for the greater good, and so will Chris.

How dare he..

lol does't he know the best way to hide disqualifying weaknesses and ensure no one will rise up to topple you off the mountain is to hire a staff of clueless idiots, loyal party hacks, and yes-men?

Apply that brutally honest assessment where it applies. The workplace? Corporate HQ? Depends on personal experience (and luck)

On the federal level there's at least two in Washington DC (pending fumigation);

Naval Observatory
Massachusetts Ave & 34th St Northwest

Big White Building
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20500

Well it may not be as bogus as you might first think. ............


Chris, I am not totally disagreeing with you.

I asked you to go back and look at seven of the names for a reason. You stated "governmental experience" and that's fine, as it supports your case towards basic experience. However, the office of president is not a basic or normal government job.

First, it is the highest executive level post in this nation and maybe in the world. Obama has no executive experience, at least nothing on any level which could be placed in the plus column.

Second, even those who have had executive experience cannot compare it to this post. There are very few executives in the world who have the experience that this job requires.

That is why I tried to lead you to where I was coming from by sharing that he is well educated, he is bright, articulate and he can project his opinions onto others well. He can deliver his point in a very accepting fashion. Bush certainly can't, ever listen to him stumble through something? Reagan could, Clinton could. This trait plays well to being a strong executive, as does hiring the correct people for each position and then being able to let them do their job, without micro managing them.

He is the team leader. He has to be the one to get it to all flow together, but, he does not have to have direct daily control of it all. He has to trust those he appoints and their abilities. Though he has to lead, he becomes a good leader by being not just a good listener, but, by accepting when the better option is different from his own thoughts.

No Chris, I am not sold on Obama as you are. In turn, I will now judge him based on what he actually does from this point forward. Just as I did prior to the election, I based it on his past voting record and printed proposed policies.

Finally Chris, don't take some good political ribbing to heart. We are all just sharing opinions. We each could read the same exact book and we will still have different opinions to some degree. But, you get your motor running pretty easily, so it is fun to push the buttons some, but, it is not meant in a evil way! lol

neither were grant and jackson.

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"Nothing is more unreliable than the populace, nothing more obscure than human intentions, nothing more deceptive than the whole electoral system."- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Kicking Sara Palin while she is down is no way to thank her for getting Obama elected.

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Ah yeah I'm Superman--a three piece suit and a master plan. Here I come to save the day!
-Unwritten Law

editec posited that"

Quote:

the social conservatives who are basically anti-intellectuals at heart.

It must be something I read in the newpapers.

TR posits
I suspect that Obama studied the history of what happened to Jimmy Carter and took note of it, and has set to to prevent that isolation from the insider power based from happening to him

He recognizes that his elevation to POTUS ahead of many well seasoned WAshington sabe insiders could easily leave him in office, but without the insider allies that every POTUS must have in his pocket to really get things done.

His appointments' combined experience give him centuries of political knowhow and enormous political capital.

He knows that they serve at HIS pleasure, and I am quite certain he is confident that he can use their experience and drive that team without losing control of his administration.

He might be wrong about that, of course. Perfidy happens.

But better to come into office with a staff of insider WONKS who are allied to you and beholden to you for their positions, than coming into that office with outsiders who don't know how Washington works, and where the bodies are buried.

Jimmy Carter got eaten alive by his own party because he, too was something of an outsider.

I think Obama took steps to prevent that from happening to him.

You are talking out of your ass.

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Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. ~ Frederic Bastiat, The Law