Both feel that if you served you were simply replacing mommy and daddy or as Diuretic put it institutionalized.

Both think you are cradle to grave social programs if you served long enough to EARN a retirement.

Both think you are a mindless drone that is managed and cared for while in service.

How do you Veterans feel about these opinions of people that haven't a clue?

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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

A post by Ravi on the subject.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

I was institutionalised too!

So, I know what it was like but do go on.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

So you admit the Australian Military runs brain dead zoners? Sorry but in the US military you do not get "taken" care of except in the sense of what your contract allows and what happens if you do not do what you are reqyuired to.

No one wakes your little ass up in the morning.

No one dresses you in the proper uniform for the day.

No one shaves you or takes care if your bath water for you.

No One makes your bed or cleans your cloths for you.

No one takes you to the chow hall at meal times.

No one holds your hand while you pee.

No one makes sure you get to work or formation on time.

The only time you are accounted for on a regular basis is when you are in a field environment. And that is just to ensure as a leader you don't go to jail cause some dumbshit gets lost.

The only difference between military and civilian is you have to be MORE dependable, more work oriented, and you can not just not show up cause you stayed up all night. Well and they put your ass in jail if you break your contract.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

I think military lifers wanted to live in a enlistment to retirement socialistic system.

I also think those who are military retired earned their retirement benefits.

My major complaint with some military retired is when they start telling we who have lived in a world of capitalism, how grateful we should be to you folks who choose to take the socialistic way of life that we paid for, and continue to pay for, too.

I met far too many lifers when I was in the service who weren't worth a tinkers damn, Gunny and RGS, and I suspect if you were honest about it, you did too.

So expecting us to get down and kiss your military retired asses and thank you for your SERVICE?

Given that you choose to take that path, given that you were paid well for your service, given that you were paid far better for that service in uniform than you'd likely have been paid for similar tasks in the civilan world?

Well to me, that is asking a bit much from us who did not elect to take that career path.

When was the last time any of you military retired told some civil servant working in civilan government post that you were grateful for his civil service to your nation?

My guess is never.

When was the last time you thanked a farmer for his service to our nation? How about a coal miner?

They typically have higher rates of deaths on the job than servicemen do, ya know?

No, of course you don't ever seem to acknowledge that.

You guys seem to be of the opinion that only tyou military people serve our nation, and the rest of us are all on easy street because of your sacrifices.

What a self congratulatory load of delusional hubris.

What a load of horseshit. I don't and have not ask anyone to thank me for shit. BUT I will not be told I am a social Program and am sucking from the federal tit. I SERVED under CONTRACT and am being paid for that SERVICE. The same as ANYONE in the private sector that had a contract they fulfilled.

Take your envy somewhere else.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

I was never in the Australian Defence Forces Rock. My basic training in the police lasted three years. From 17 to 20 years of age. In that time I learned many things. I learned how to hold a knife and fork properly (really). I learned First Aid. I learned to fire handguns (crappy bloody .380 FN – the Belgian ones from Herstal). I learned to ride and care for a horse. I learned that much law that I could have been given credit at the only university (back then) that gave law degrees and would only have had to to the practice qualification. I learned about self defence and giving evidence. I learned to abseil off stupidly sheer (thankfully not too high) buildings. I learned about lifesaving, the day I did my final test it was in the middle of our winter and all of us were in the cold water doing our test, we got out and started spewing our guts up everywhere after the test. I learned about driving various vehicles and at stupidly high speeds. In three years full time basic training I learned a lot. And I learned I was institutionalised. After I graduated it took me about five years or so to get over the institutionalisation. I could go on and on about it but I won't. But if you press me I wil take you wherever it goes.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

I only feel this way about you, dear. And I was just laughing at your stupid statement that Robert was being taken care of when you went, supposedly, right from Mommy's teat to the government teat.

The military is a social program and all your protestations to the contrary don't change that fact.

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Envy?

You wish.

Being in the military is a thing to be proud of RGS.

You served your country and I thank you for it.

It is funded by tax payer dollars, it is a social program.

A full military retirement gives you healthcare, base privledges which inculdes cheaper food and clothes. It even inculdes cut price entertainment on any nearby base, Free flights to anywhere in the world and special housing loans.

These are all provided with tax dollars. There is no shame in this.

The military is institutionalized living.

The whole Idea of boot camp is what?

to institutionalize your thinking to follow orders without question.

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"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell

No one is taught to obey orders without question. You are required to know legal from illegal orders.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

Yeah and the real heros do that.

Then in atmospheres like this war they are treated like criminals by the people like you when they refuse an illegal order.

__________________
"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell

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"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell

No illegal order has ever been given in this war. At least none brought to light.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

Then why isnt Watada in prison?

__________________
"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell