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01-30-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger  Tebows story is inspirational, but I don't get the point
Doctors told his mother that if she tried to have the baby, she could have died or the baby may have had serious medical problems. The mother gambled and won....Tebow was the result
Does this mean we should get commercials of women who were advised to abort and died because they didn't? Is the intent of the commercial to tell women that they should ignore their doctors and try to have children regardless of the potential consequences? Exactly. It's not like Tebow's mom was a single mother who was forced to make a hard decision based on her status in life.
As it stands, Tebow's mom was faced with a medical dilemma. This would fall under the category of "exception for the health of the mother" which few people (even the most adament pro-life people) agree on.
What they won't show is the woman who gambled and came up snake eyes. That should be the point that is made, not some idiotic bullshit about the laws of the Philippines.
All this plays right into Jimmy Dobson's hand, because it makes the pro-choice people look desperate to suppress their opinion.
Let them run their damn ad. The only thing it is saying is "I didn't listen to my Drs. advice, and neither should you!". That's not going to resonate well.
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01-30-2010, 09:05 AM
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Rep Power: 54 | | | The fact is that there are two parts of the "pro-choice" movement.
You have the people who profit from abortion, Planned Parenthood, Gloria Allred, NOW, NARAL, Emily's List etc. These are the people who could almost be termed Pro-abortion.
But, then you have the vast majority of pro-choice people. These are the people who do not profit from the procedure but look at the issue and whether or not they would ever consider the option of abortion, believe that the decision lies solely with the pregnant mother and that this is not something that the government should interfere with in any way whatsoever.
To claim that this second group is "pro-abortion" is not only wrong but detrimental to the cause of defending life. It is no less wrong than claiming that the pro-life movement is "anti-choice".
Immie
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Last edited by Immanuel; 01-30-2010 at 09:07 AM.
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01-30-2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom-boing
Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom-boing From the article:
Tim's mother had the options of abortion or carrying the baby to term. She opted for the latter; she chose to carry Tim to term.
Someone explain to me how this ad will promote an anti-choice message. Or is 'choice' only applicable when the choice made is abortion? Actually..........no.
Tebow's mother was a missionary in the Philippines during the pregnancy. She contracted and illness, and as a result of the illness and resulting toxic shock, her placenta ruptured. The doctors in the PI didn't have the required medical facilities, and the doctor recommended that she have an abortion to stay alive.
Recovering from something like that is hard enough in the States, at current technology, how much harder do you think it was when Tebow was born?
Some of you people have stated that you are against abortion, except in cases to save the mother, incest, or rape. This was a medically recommended thing, by a qualified doctor, because her chances of survival, as well as the child's were in the very low end of the scale.
So, take your false, hypocritical umbrage over this ad being protested.
Like I said in another thread, I wouldn't mind it so much if they would just TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH AND NOT SPIN THEIR BULLSHIT INTO IT!
THAT is why I think the ad is fucked. Exactly. And Tim's mother chose to carry her pregnancy to term, even knowing that it would risk both their lives.
Abortion doesn't get dibs on the pro-choice term but from people's reaction to this commercial it sure seems as if pro-choice = pro-abortion. Otherwise, why would they be so upset at her choice? She made a very bad choice, and got lucky. Encouraging others to make a very bad choice is irresponsible.  |
01-30-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Immanuel The fact is that there are two parts of the "pro-choice" movement.
You have the people who profit from abortion, Planned Parenthood, Gloria Allred, NOW, NARAL, Emily's List etc. These are the people who could almost be termed Pro-abortion.
But, then you have the vast majority of pro-choice people. These are the people who do not profit from the procedure but look at the issue and whether or not they would ever consider the option of abortion, believe that the decision lies solely with the pregnant mother and that this is not something that the government should interfere with in any way whatsoever.
To claim that this second group is "pro-abortion" is not only wrong but detrimental to the cause of defending life. It is no less wrong than claiming that the pro-life movement is "anti-choice".
Immie I see it as a simple matter of a patient's autonomy over their own health. Patient's have the right to make choices over matters involving their own health, even if they are detrimental.
I would expand that to physician assisted suicide, based on the Oregon model, which I believe should be a patient's choice as well.
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01-30-2010, 09:14 AM
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01-30-2010, 09:17 AM
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01-30-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by geauxtohell
Quote: Originally Posted by Immanuel The fact is that there are two parts of the "pro-choice" movement.
You have the people who profit from abortion, Planned Parenthood, Gloria Allred, NOW, NARAL, Emily's List etc. These are the people who could almost be termed Pro-abortion.
But, then you have the vast majority of pro-choice people. These are the people who do not profit from the procedure but look at the issue and whether or not they would ever consider the option of abortion, believe that the decision lies solely with the pregnant mother and that this is not something that the government should interfere with in any way whatsoever.
To claim that this second group is "pro-abortion" is not only wrong but detrimental to the cause of defending life. It is no less wrong than claiming that the pro-life movement is "anti-choice".
Immie I see it as a simple matter of a patient's autonomy over their own health. Patient's have the right to make choices over matters involving their own health, even if they are detrimental.
I would expand that to physician assisted suicide, based on the Oregon model, which I believe should be a patient's choice as well. That would put you as a member of the second group.
Immie
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01-30-2010, 09:18 AM
| | Registered User Member #18701 | | Join Date: Mar 2009
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01-30-2010, 09:19 AM
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01-30-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NYcarbineer How much is Focus on the Family paying for this ad? Someone earlier said $2.5 million and that it could have been put to better use actually helping people in need. Geez, if I am not mistaken it was you. If so, you would be right.
Immie
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01-30-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by code1211
Quote: Originally Posted by Skull Pilot I never heard of this tebow guy and can't help but wonder why anyone gives a flying fuck about what he says enough to warrant multiple threads
He's a college quarterback. A pretty good one.
This qualifies him as an expert on most topics.
This is why Jeanine Garofalo is qualified to vomit opinions on anything in front of a camera and why Nancy Pelosi is suddenly a medical expert.
We live in a society that cannot distinguish between wisdom and fame. Why should I listen to you are you famous? Do you have big tits?Are you a vegan?
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01-30-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Skull Pilot I never heard of this tebow guy and can't help but wonder why anyone gives a flying fuck about what he says enough to warrant multiple threads Isn't he the loser quarterback from Florida? or Florida State? or Miami? I can't keep them straight. |
01-30-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by geauxtohell
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Tebows story is inspirational, but I don't get the point
Doctors told his mother that if she tried to have the baby, she could have died or the baby may have had serious medical problems. The mother gambled and won....Tebow was the result
Does this mean we should get commercials of women who were advised to abort and died because they didn't? Is the intent of the commercial to tell women that they should ignore their doctors and try to have children regardless of the potential consequences? Exactly. It's not like Tebow's mom was a single mother who was forced to make a hard decision based on her status in life.
As it stands, Tebow's mom was faced with a medical dilemma. This would fall under the category of "exception for the health of the mother" which few people (even the most adament pro-life people) agree on.
What they won't show is the woman who gambled and came up snake eyes. That should be the point that is made, not some idiotic bullshit about the laws of the Philippines.
All this plays right into Jimmy Dobson's hand, because it makes the pro-choice people look desperate to suppress their opinion.
Let them run their damn ad. The only thing it is saying is "I didn't listen to my Drs. advice, and neither should you!". That's not going to resonate well. I am opposed to abortions because having a baby is not "convenient" at the time. If Tebows mother had economic issues and decided to have the baby anyway, the ad would make sense.
In a case where the mothers health is at risk and she gambles and wins, we should not get ads telling other mothers they should make the same choice because the baby might become a Heisman winning QB.
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01-30-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NYcarbineer How much is Focus on the Family paying for this ad? You've got to wonder considering they've had two waves of lay offs due to "lack of money". |
01-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger In a case where the mothers health is at risk and she gambles and wins, we should not get ads telling other mothers they should make the same choice because the baby might become a Heisman winning QB. I read your earlier post that said much the same thing and could not think of a reply. Thinking about it now, I would say that to some extent maybe it is not a message that should not be heard for the reason you listed.
We all assume that Mrs. Tebow's life was in grave danger (and maybe it was) because a doctor in the Philippines said so. Doctors are not always right. It appears that in Mrs Tebow's case the doctor was wrong.
That being said, if the message is "don't listen to your doctor... he is lying to you" that could lead to the deaths of women. I for one do not want to see that happen.
Immie
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