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What will you believe if science recreates the beginings of life?

This is a discussion on What will you believe if science recreates the beginings of life? within the Religion and Ethics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Well true in some ways I did overstate the case. How about if I rephrase it as that intelligent beings can create life....


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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:31 PM
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Well true in some ways I did overstate the case. How about if I rephrase it as that intelligent beings can create life.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by garyd View Post
If you succeed you will only have succeeded in proving what Christianity has believed for years that the creation of life requires intelligent input...
Quote: Originally Posted by garyd View Post
Well true in some ways I did overstate the case. How about if I rephrase it as that intelligent beings can create life.
Christianity has believed that intelligent beings can create life? Really?

At one point in the past you would be facing an inquisition over this idea.

Christianity has believed in witches, gobblins and evil supernatural possessions (still does) and more hooey than I can shake a broom at.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DevNell View Post
Christianity has believed that intelligent beings can create life? Really?

At one point in the past you would be facing an inquisition over this idea.

Christianity has believed in witches, gobblins and evil supernatural possessions (still does) and more hooey than I can shake a broom at.
They think that God is pretty intelligent, and that he created stuff.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by FistyTheBadger View Post
They think that God is pretty intelligent, and that he created stuff.
Why would they think that? Have any of them ever met this God guy?
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by glockmail View Post
So why are you making that assumption?
Just following your reasoning.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:13 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all View Post
But doesn't everything in science begin with an assumption Diuretic?

Assumptions, is where it all starts imo....a scientist presumes something, then goes out to prove it....he/she begins with a hypothesis, no?

care
Care, no kidding, if that's the case then I'm a brillliant scientist! Me, King of the Assumers! Fair dinkum if jumping to conclusions was a sport I'd be World Champ!

But I think it starts, following Aristotle, with observation, formation of hypothesis and then testing the hypothesis. That's all I know without googling like buggery!
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Virus.
Viruses are interesting little buggers aren't they? Life, but a strange form of life.

Good read here:

http://microbiologybytes.wordpress.c...as-we-know-it/

Quote:
It’s Life, Jim, but not as we know it…

Which could well apply to viruses, my very own favourite organisms - after all, they don’t respire, grow, excrete or any of those other good things that classical organisms supposedly do - but that’s not the point of this piece. Rather, I’d like to speculate on an interesting convergence of articles I’ve seen recently, on (1) extrasolar planets, (2) water on same, and (3) the possibility of novel lifeforms. Some of this is an accident of the irregular timing of receipt of my New Scientist and Nature subscriptions, but serendipity has played a large role in my life and will doubtless continue to do so.
More at link and worth a read.
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Last edited by Diuretic; 01-16-2009 at 12:28 AM.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
Just following your reasoning.
too fukin' funny...
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom-boing View Post
It won't affect my beliefs at all. God is what started it all
Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 View Post
Can you prove this comment, other than "Trust me" or "Its in the Bible/Koran/Torah"? Can you even begin to test it?

Didn't think so!
Can you prove that He didn't start it all?
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AllieBaba View Post
Oh boo fucking hoo.

"What is vigorously challenged, however, is macroevolution. Macroevolution is evolution on the "grand scale" resulting in the origin of higher taxa. In evolutionary theory it thus entails common ancestry, descent with modification, speciation, the genealogical relatedness of all life, transformation of species, and large scale functional and structural changes of populations through time, all at or above the species level (Freeman and Herron 2004; Futuyma 1998; Ridley 1993)."
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: the Scientific Case for Common Descent

There's no evidence for macro evolution. Or for abiogenesis.
There is no evidence for abiogenesis, at least not yet.

There is more than a century of scientific research to back up the theory of evolution.

How anyone can pretend to refute evolution in an internet forum boggles the mind.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
Viruses are interesting little buggers aren't they? Life, but a strange form of life.

Good read here:

It’s Life, Jim, but not as we know it… « MicrobiologyBytes



More at link and worth a read.
Viruses have given us a LOT of proof for everything from evolution, much of our studies on the subject came from them because their life cycles are so short a few years to us is a million to them. Also all life is based on viruses, our own cells are viruses in many ways. Some go through evolution steps each generation, like the flu and cold viruses. Perhaps god is just a virus?
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Truthmatters View Post
Refreshing News: Life As We Know It Nearly Created in Lab

They are very close and if they succeed how will that effect your current beliefs?
It won't change beliefs at all. The article is about a natural process recreated by man thus it affirms those who see life as natural and those who see life as created by intelligence.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DevNell View Post
Christianity has believed that intelligent beings can create life? Really?

At one point in the past you would be facing an inquisition over this idea.

Christianity has believed in witches, gobblins and evil supernatural possessions (still does) and more hooey than I can shake a broom at.
You are confusing "Christianity" with certain sects and politicially motivated movements within the church, who were working in conjunction with the legal system and at the behest of the judicial system to eradicate certain problematic populations.

Which is the problem of allowing church and state to mingle, of course. True Christians recognize that and are the most staunch defenders of separation of church and state.

Christians do, however, believe in demons and possession....but it's when the government gets involved that you have penalties put into action. The Salem Witch Trials were a result of the JUDICIAL system condemning women (a whole 13? OH MY GOD) for allegedly religious reasons. And that happened under BRITISH rule.

The INQUISITION was an unholy alliance between the Catholic church and certain governments to establish one state religion.

It's old news, it's more likely to happen with the fanatics who want to abolish all religion and all referrals to religion in public than it is otherwise these days. You nuts are the ones who want to ostracize, punish, and eliminate people based upon their religion. Not us.
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2009, 10:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Skeptik View Post
There is no evidence for abiogenesis, at least not yet.

There is more than a century of scientific research to back up the theory of evolution.

How anyone can pretend to refute evolution in an internet forum boggles the mind.
I'm not refuting evolution. I'm refuting the theory that you can take a one cell animal, and it will evolve into a lizard.

Of course animals evolve. People are taller than they used to be...or at least some of us are. We live longer. That's evolution. Horses have developed into widely divergent breeds..that's evolution.

What I say can't happen, and nobody has every proven differently, is that a man can evolve from an APE, or an ape can evolve from a rodent.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom-boing View Post
Can you prove that He didn't start it all?
If life can only be the product of intelligence and we are created in gods image then god must be life and therefore have an intelligent creator, correct? So he couldn't have started it all since his weakness of being life means he could not be the beginning since he, like us, is a product of another beings intelligene.

Now the question being begged is whether gods god is life. If so, then gods god would also need a god and therefore also not be the beginning. So who started it all since it wasn't god...nature? And, of course, if nature could create god then why couldn't it create us...
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