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Old 12-01-2008, 04:25 AM
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Religious v Social Religious

In this case the writer is an agnostic Jew, however there is something here for any:

Roger L. Simon » Print » In the Wake of Mumbai: An Agnostic Jew Considers Chabad

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In the Wake of Mumbai: An Agnostic Jew Considers Chabad
Posted By Roger L Simon On November 30, 2008 @ 5:26 pm In terrorism | 26 Comments

Like many agnostic Jews, I have my own experience of Chabad.

I first encountered them years ago on Los Angeles’ LaBrea Avenue, when a rabbi from one of their “Mitzvah tanks” (mobile vans) stopped me on the sidewalk. He asked if I was Jewish and, if so, when was the last time I had “laid tefillin” (put on ritual phylacteries). Frankly, I couldn’t remember if I ever had and recoiled from the invitation. I was again accosted by one of their number – with the same invitation - in front of the Western Wall in Jerusalem. This time I let him do it. Hey, when in Rome….

But this all meant little to me beyond minor cultural/anthropological interest until I again met some Chabadniks in LA who were helping substance abusers. For scraggily bearded “whackos” dressed in weird hats and ill-fitting Eighteenth Century Polish business suits they seemed to be going about it in a surprisingly sympathetic and even modern way. Later – I was then researching my novel about Jewish fundamentalism Raising the Dead– I joined a study group led by a Chabad/Lubavitcher rebbe in Westwood. Most of the members were from the music business, cool characters in trendy haircuts out to find God (or G-d, as they would have it). These dudes and dudettes – guilty perhaps about living lives of sex, drugs and rock & roll - were on the edge of self-parody, but the rabbi was able to engage with them on their “groovy” level and his own spiritual one simultaneously. I was impressed. (It is important to remember about Lubavitchers that they are rather different from other Hasidic sects that tend to be insular. The Chabadniks emphasize outreach, not just to Jews but to all in need.)...

..And that’s the point. Chabadniks really are religious Jews in the best sense. Whether we admit it or not, Reform Jews from my background are hardly religious at all. It’s more of a social club. There’s nothing wrong in that, of course, as long as you are honest about it. But it should give a hint why the Chabadniks are more mainstays in the War on Terror than Reform Jews whose values and views often veer more towards John Kerry than Moshe Dayan.

Which leads me to the topic of the hour – Mumbai. It’s clear the young Lubavitcher couple murdered by the terrorists, Rabbi Gavriel Holzberg and his wife Rivka, were the finest of human beings. They were dedicated to promoting goodness in the world in the deepest spiritual sense. They wished only the best for all humanity and also did their best to encourage it, in fact gave their lives for it. You don’t have to believe in G-d or even God to understand that. Their horrifying deaths reminded this agnostic that there is indeed something called evil in the world.

So now what do I do? What, indeed, do we all do?

UPDATE: The Times of India and [1] other sources are reporting the terrorists did thorough reconnaissance of the Mumbai Chabad Center in advance of their action, apparently staying there disguised as Malaysian students, no doubt under the good offices of the Holzbergs. Somebody should tell the New York Times who, as of this writing, is still reporting the Jewish center as an “[2] unlikely target.” In fact, at first the Times seemed to disbelieve the center could have been a target at all. But that’s no surprise. They have missed Jewish target stories, even the most important ones, [3] in the past:

The reason is that the American media in general and the New York Times in particular never treated the Holocaust as an important news story. From the start of the war in Europe to its end nearly six years later, the story of the Holocaust made the Times front page only 26 times out of 24,000 front-page stories, and most of those stories referred to the victims as “refugees” or “persecuted minorities.” In only six of those stories were Jews identified on page one as the primary victims.

Nor did the story lead the paper, appearing in the right-hand column reserved for the day’s most important news – not even when the concentration camps were liberated at the end of the war. In addition, the Times intermittently and timidly editorialized about the extermination of the Jews, and the paper rarely highlighted it in either the Week in Review or the magazine section. [bold mine]

As the saying goes, the more things change, the more they remain the same.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:47 AM
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Does anyone doubt that the Islamic terrorists target Jews?

I rather doubt it.
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:09 AM
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lol

I agree.
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I will report you every chance I get as long as you pretend to be Jewish. You are scummier than a Pali terrorist and that you get away with it says a lot about this board. And keep calling people rats, Adolph.
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:24 AM
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Wasn't the point, but what the heck. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:46 AM
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What point did I miss?
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:51 AM
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Frankly, I couldn’t remember if I ever had and recoiled from the invitation. I was again accosted by one of their number – with the same invitation - in front of the Western Wall in Jerusalem.
Such delicate sensibilities. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:53 AM
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AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve
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People downplay it, they negate it, they justify it and they support it by their blatant verbal attacks which agree with Muslim theology and extremism.

The thing is, Islam as it exists for most of the people who practice it is a violent, repressive religion and its FOCUS is to kill/subjugate non believers and women.

I recommend the book "Infidel" to anyone who still thinks we are the reason we are targeted for violence by Muslims. See how they treat their own women, and you'll have no doubt they have no issues with striking out at others. The purpose of Islam is to FORCE CONVERSION and kill those who refuse to convert, or who leave the religion (apostates).
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:59 AM
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The thing is, Islam as it exists for most of the people who practice it is a violent, repressive religion and its FOCUS is to kill/subjugate non believers and women.
Any religion can be a violent repressive religion for some people who practice it. All religions have extremists.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:07 AM
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AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve
AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve
And that is exactly what I'm talking about.

All religions have extremists, but the Muslim religion is an extremist religion which teaches, in the Quaran, violence and the repression of women and death to Infidels universally.

While we all have our occasional spastics and retards who will use religion as an excuse to nut out; it is an aberration. In the religion of Islam, this is the behavior that is taught by the Quaran and instilled in children from birth.

We don't tolerate Mormon polygamy or arranged marriages. I'd like to know why we are so tolerant of Muslim honor killings, child abuse, wife abuse, and repeated attacks on innocents in the name of "tolerance" for Muslims? Why should we be tolerant of a religion from which so much violence and hatred comes daily? Why should we be tolerant of a religion which fills shelters in Holland with battered wives and children? Why should we be tolerant of a religion that will NOT speak out against honor killings, the genital mutilation of children, and regular beatings?
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:07 AM
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Historically, Islam was spread throughout most of the world by the sword.

Nowadays, terrorist excesses excluded, mostly its spreading by the green card.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:17 AM
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And that is exactly what I'm talking about.

All religions have extremists, but the Muslim religion is an extremist religion which teaches, in the Quaran, violence and the repression of women and death to Infidels universally.
If that is true, then there are a huge number of Muslims that don't do what the Koran says

Quote:
I'd like to know why we are so tolerant of Muslim honor killings, child abuse, wife abuse, and repeated attacks on innocents in the name of "tolerance" for Muslims?
Are we?
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:44 AM
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Historically, Islam was spread throughout most of the world by the sword.

Nowadays, terrorist excesses excluded, mostly its spreading by the green card.
That and by out-breeding Christians and Jews.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:34 AM
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What point did I miss?
Something along the lines of no one should call NYT the Jew York Times because apparently they now hate Jews.

I also heard they never reported on the Crusades so they probably are Christian suck ups.
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I will report you every chance I get as long as you pretend to be Jewish. You are scummier than a Pali terrorist and that you get away with it says a lot about this board. And keep calling people rats, Adolph.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:42 AM
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AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve
AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve AllieBaba could run the Federal Reserve
If that is true, then there are a huge number of Muslims that don't do what the Koran says



Are we?
It is true. If you aren't aware of it, perhaps you should stop jabbering and look into it.
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