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09-28-2008, 04:59 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 2 | | | In the Absence of God; Human rights cannot exist.
A lot of people will tell you, with a great deal of certainty that God does not exist. Now I've noticed that it is VERY common for these SAME people to also believe that they have ALL MANNER of human rights... and I've always been curious as to just what these people believe that these human rights that they lay claim to rest upon? By that I mean where do these rights come from?
Now some will tell you that human rights are a function of the Social Contract... some will quickly explain that human rights come from the government and so it goes...
Below, I am going to lay out a scenario and I'd like the Atheists or the Secular-humanists to chime in as to how they would react to the below scenario and on what basis would they take that action. Quote: |
Originally Posted by In the Absence of God; human rights cannot exist.
Well things have just gone swimmingly for the ideological left for a few decades and notions such as ‘national sovereignty’ and such are behind the good people of the planet Earth… You woke up this morning, flipped on your TV or radio and you learn that the WORLD COURT has determined that Atheists are a menace to the world and that due to a litany of reasons, Atheists, the court decided, do not have ANY human rights; the World Legislature, “The People” had passed a law to that effect a year or so back; BUT before they could put it into effect, the atheists lobby: “FUCK THAT SHIT!” (Future Unitarians Cause Killing The Happy Atheists Tears Serious Holes In Them) sued to get the World Court to stop it… But inevitably, the court determined that Atheists are SO dangerous that they are to be hunted down to the last man, woman and child and executed on site; offering a $100.00 bounty for every atheist head which is brought to one's local law enforcement official.
Now for the purposes of this debate, the world is governed by one World authority (we can call it the “UN”) and the last word in such matters is the World Court; there is no recourse; the decision is final and irrevocable...
What's more, you're sitting there looking out your kitchen window and you see four of your neighbors crossing into your back yard; one is carrying a net-type bag which has the disembodied heads your boss and two of your closest friends... the neighbor carrying the bag has a machete, the other three are carrying automatic weapons. They're now at your backdoor trying to bust it down... what do you DO? (and most importantly: WHY DO YOU DO IT?)
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09-28-2008, 09:43 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,598
Rep Power: 45 | | | Well the question itself is idiotic. Its similar to asking a Jew in a concentration camp "WHAT DO YOU DO?". Generally, you would die. However an intelligent question would be "do you object to this scenario, and why?". Of course, anyone with the intelligence to ask the right question, would probably have the sense to respond very simply. Yes, I disagree with the scenario, and thats because individual rights matter.
Where did I get that idea from? I made it up. Just as you did with your idea that God exists. Or that you somehow know what God is thinking or he whispered in your ear which rights exist. Yes, rights are subjective. But so is everything, and you can take everything to absurd conclusions. Beliefs matter, and rights don't need to come from something non-human to matter. |
09-28-2008, 10:04 PM
|  | Thirsty? | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: FL
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Rep Power: 25 | | | is your scenerio insinuating that to be human one MUST believe in God? and is this God the one YOU decide is proper?
Human rights have less to do with God and more to do with common decency. You can be a good and decent person and not believe in God. You can also respect your fellow man and not inflict your will upon him without believing in God.
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09-28-2008, 10:15 PM
|  | Great promise | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia and bloody dry it is too
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Rep Power: 160 | | If I had a firearm I'd shoot the bastards.
But this is truly bizarre.
Human rights are human invention. As is God. So it looks like humans are an inventive lot.
We invented God. We invented human rights.
That's so that someone could one day come along and say God gave us human rights and we could fight about it on an internet forum 
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09-29-2008, 07:10 AM
|  | pagan by choice | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: blue ridge mountains
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Rep Power: 21 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic  If I had a firearm I'd shoot the bastards.
But this is truly bizarre.
Human rights are human invention. As is God. So it looks like humans are an inventive lot.
We invented God. We invented human rights.
That's so that someone could one day come along and say God gave us human rights and we could fight about it on an internet forum |
well said.
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09-29-2008, 07:51 AM
| | Mr. Forgot-it-All | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Maine
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Rep Power: 43 | | | All I can say is this...
In the presence of GOD we're not doing all that well human rights-wise, either.
SOMEBODY's not doing their job, folks. |
09-29-2008, 07:57 AM
| | 1-20-09 | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Other Side of Paradise
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Originally Posted by editec All I can say is this...
In the presence of GOD we're not doing all that well human rights-wise, either.
SOMEBODY's not doing their job, folks. | The OP is a pretty arrogant, and wrongminded and draws a conclusion unsubstantiated by any reality.
In the face of G-d, some of the most egregrious wrongs have been perpetrated against humans.
Morality and G-d are not necessarily intertwined.
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09-29-2008, 08:34 AM
| | Mr. Forgot-it-All | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Maine
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Rep Power: 43 | | | The thought just occurred to me that absent human rights, GOD does not exist. |
09-29-2008, 08:44 AM
| | Thirsty? | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: FL
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Originally Posted by editec The thought just occurred to me that absent human rights, GOD does not exist. |  that is brilliant!
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09-29-2008, 09:52 AM
| | incompatible user | | Join Date: Feb 2008
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Rep Power: 205 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic If I had a firearm I'd shoot the bastards.
But this is truly bizarre.
Human rights are human invention. As is God. So it looks like humans are an inventive lot.
We invented God. We invented human rights.
That's so that someone could one day come along and say God gave us human rights and we could fight about it on an internet forum | I can't disagree with that.
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09-29-2008, 10:11 AM
|  | Cogito, ergo sum | | Join Date: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by Larkinn Well the question itself is idiotic. Its similar to asking a Jew in a concentration camp "WHAT DO YOU DO?". Generally, you would die. | The Jew had already been taken prisoner.
I would defend myself with what ever weapon I had at the time. Which in my case is a Glock 23 and a Remington Shotgun.
Of course rights come from God because if a person where to convey rights on you and that person died, would you then say that you no longer had rights?
God conveyed these rights to you upon your conception.
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09-29-2008, 10:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007
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Originally Posted by Mad Scientist The Jew had already been taken prisoner. | Oh, well thats a crucial distinction. Another crucial distinction is that ones a Jew and ones an atheist.  Quote: |
I would defend myself with what ever weapon I had at the time. Which in my case is a Glock 23 and a Remington Shotgun.
| As would anyone. Quote:
Of course rights come from God because if a person where to convey rights on you and that person died, would you then say that you no longer had rights?
God conveyed these rights to you upon your conception.
| Nobody needs to "convey" rights onto you. |
09-29-2008, 10:42 AM
| | Cogito, ergo sum | | Join Date: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by Larkinn Oh, well thats a crucial distinction. Another crucial distinction is that ones a Jew and ones an atheist. | Let me remind you of the original question that you are trying to ignore: Quote: |
What's more, you're sitting there looking out your kitchen window and you see four of your neighbors crossing into your back yard; one is carrying a net-type bag which has the disembodied heads your boss and two of your closest friends... the neighbor carrying the bag has a machete, the other three are carrying automatic weapons. They're now at your backdoor trying to bust it down... what do you DO? (and most importantly: WHY DO YOU DO IT?)
| In the above scenario you are free, in a concentration camp you are a prisoner so it doesn't apply, your trying to change the facts of the question. Just answer the question as asked. It's his question you know. Quote: |
Nobody needs to "convey" rights onto you.
| That's right! They come from God, your creator! No one can take them away from you! Now you're learning!
Now let me ask you this: Would you have any rights if there were no Constitution? Please explain why.
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09-29-2008, 03:50 PM
| | Great promise | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia and bloody dry it is too
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Rep Power: 160 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist The Jew had already been taken prisoner.
I would defend myself with what ever weapon I had at the time. Which in my case is a Glock 23 and a Remington Shotgun.
Of course rights come from God because if a person where to convey rights on you and that person died, would you then say that you no longer had rights?
God conveyed these rights to you upon your conception. | Given that I sold my Remington shotgun some years ago (the need for it extended over a short period, just a couple of months) I need to return to the hypothetical nature of the scenario. Hypothetically then, I would defend myself with a BFG 
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09-29-2008, 03:52 PM
| | Great promise | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia and bloody dry it is too
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Rep Power: 160 | | Quote: |
Would you have any rights if there were no Constitution? Please explain why.
| That's an excellent questin. Now you're learning!
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