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FDR's Progressive Doctrine vs The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

This is a discussion on FDR's Progressive Doctrine vs The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states Quote: ...


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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM View Post
FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states

Quote: Originally Posted by the progressive bill of rights
  • the right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
  • The right of every family to a decent home;
  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
  • The right to a good education.
  • All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
  • America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.
Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.
And compare to the current Republican agenda: "I've got mine, screw everyone else"
__________________
"One guy TRIES to use shoe bomb and everyone at the airport now has to take shoes off. 31 school shootings since Columbine, but no change."
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I support repeal of Citizens United v. FEC and I support campaign finance reform!

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The Common Law, 1881
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM View Post
FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states

Quote: Originally Posted by the progressive bill of rights
  • the right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
  • The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
  • The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
  • The right of every family to a decent home;
  • The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
  • The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
  • The right to a good education.
  • All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
  • America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.
Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.
And compare to the current Republican agenda: "I've got mine, screw everyone else"
Actually I find that message coming more from Abusive Government Employees and Union Members. There is plenty of bad attitude out there to go around.
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Intense View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM View Post
FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states



Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.
And compare to the current Republican agenda: "I've got mine, screw everyone else"
Actually I find that message coming more from Abusive Government Employees and Union Members. There is plenty of bad attitude out there to go around.



Do you believe all government employees and union members are Democrats?
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I support repeal of Citizens United v. FEC and I support campaign finance reform!

"THE LIFE OF THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN LOGIC; IT HAS BEEN EXPERIENCE"
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The Common Law, 1881
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2011, 10:58 AM
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[quote=PLYMCO_PILGRIM;4368357]
Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
I got that wrong about the House, didn't I, Plymco, but I did change that prediction about the second week of September.

What is interesting that the GOP threw away a wonderful opportunity this year to capitalize on BHO's weaknesses and the needs of the people.[/QUOTE]


How so?
I'm not sure...the republicans did pass over a dozen bills aimed at creating a pro-jobs and pro-business atmosphere......
Nothing new, nothing workable, the same old job bill for the Hard Righties: deny BHO his job.

The GOP does not care about the working man and women. Nothing in the legislation the GOP offers gives any evidence of such care.
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Intense View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post

And compare to the current Republican agenda: "I've got mine, screw everyone else"
Actually I find that message coming more from Abusive Government Employees and Union Members. There is plenty of bad attitude out there to go around.



Do you believe all government employees and union members are Democrats?
No. Nor do I believe all Democrats are Idiots or Kool-Aid Drinkers. The fate of the Republic rests on that.
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2011, 11:07 AM
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[quote=JakeStarkey;4371689]
Quote: Originally Posted by PLYMCO_PILGRIM View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post

I'm not sure...the republicans did pass over a dozen bills aimed at creating a pro-jobs and pro-business atmosphere......
Nothing new, nothing workable, the same old job bill for the Hard Righties: deny BHO his job.

The GOP does not care about the working man and women. Nothing in the legislation the GOP offers gives any evidence of such care.
I don't think that is true Jake. I think the view is more the danger to the Republic, to Liberty, by signing off on the consolidation of Power and Influence of Government that is being slipped in. It is more Soft Tyranny, than Federalist Principles. It could have been Any Progressive advancing this agenda, even if it was Hillary, I'd still be opposed to it.
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2011, 07:36 AM
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PLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religionPLYMCO_PILGRIM could successfully start his own religion
Quote: Originally Posted by Intense View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post

Nothing new, nothing workable, the same old job bill for the Hard Righties: deny BHO his job.

The GOP does not care about the working man and women. Nothing in the legislation the GOP offers gives any evidence of such care.
I don't think that is true Jake. I think the view is more the danger to the Republic, to Liberty, by signing off on the consolidation of Power and Influence of Government that is being slipped in. It is more Soft Tyranny, than Federalist Principles. It could have been Any Progressive advancing this agenda, even if it was Hillary, I'd still be opposed to it.
If it was bush I would have been opposed just like I was to medicare part D and the patriot act.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2011, 08:20 AM
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Communism has never been a danger in the U.S. If you look at the countries where a quasi-Marxist revolution happened, all of them were backward, pre-industrial or industrializing, autocratic countries with abusive governments. (I mean before the revolution.) (They had abusive governments afterwards, too.) There has never been a Communist revolution in an advanced, industrialized democracy. I firmly believe that no such revolution can take place, for the simple reason that the people will not support it.

The reason the right has taken to anti-Communism is not because Communist revolution was ever any danger here, but because anti-Communism proved useful as a way to tarbrush any effort at economic justice, workers' rights, or economic equity. The real target was not Communists, but liberals.

This thread is exactly that. It takes something objectionable (Communist tyranny), links it to something unobjectionable and liberal (the Soviet constitution), shows the similarity between that and something else liberal (FDR's second bill of rights), and tries on this basis to draw a connection all the way between Communist tyranny and FDR's second bill of rights. But there is no rational connection that can be drawn -- only guilt by irrelevant association.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2011, 08:28 AM
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so many hard righters fail to realize that progressivism is a reform process far more than a leftist ideology.

Since the 1870s progressivism and populism have gone hand in hand in reforming American government, economics, banking, business, politics, etc. The changes have come from the left, the center, and the right.

And all righties have ignored the pertinent point that the great majority of America is well aware the GOP has offered nothing of substance about jobs since January 2009, other than carping about Obama.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
so many hard righters fail to realize that progressivism is a reform process far more than a leftist ideology.

Since the 1870s progressivism and populism have gone hand in hand in reforming American government, economics, banking, business, politics, etc. The changes have come from the left, the center, and the right.

And all righties have ignored the pertinent point that the great majority of America is well aware the GOP has offered nothing of substance about jobs since January 2009, other than carping about Obama.
You're ignoring my statements that there are progressives in both parties
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
so many hard righters fail to realize that progressivism is a reform process far more than a leftist ideology.

Since the 1870s progressivism and populism have gone hand in hand in reforming American government, economics, banking, business, politics, etc. The changes have come from the left, the center, and the right.

And all righties have ignored the pertinent point that the great majority of America is well aware the GOP has offered nothing of substance about jobs since January 2009, other than carping about Obama.
That's not true Jake...Republicans have been very proactive...

Insurgency

Friday, February 6, 2009

Texas Republican Congressman Pete Sessions compares GOP strategy to Taliban insurgency




"Insurgency, we understand perhaps a little bit more because of the Taliban, and that is that they went about systematically understanding how to disrupt and change a person's entire processes. And these Taliban -- I'm not trying to say the Republican Party is the Taliban. No, that's not what we're saying. I'm saying an example of how you go about [sic] is to change a person from their messaging to their operations to their frontline message. And we need to understand that insurgency may be required when the other side, the House leadership, does not follow the same commands, which we entered the game with."

Congressman Pete Sessions Compares House Republicans To Taliban | Capitol Annex




Waterloo

by David Frum - former speechwriter for George W. Bush

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.
Waterloo | FrumForum
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:37 AM
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I am praying that folks wake up for the primaries in both parties and punish the far lefties and hard righties. Either we work together, or the country will collapse economically, which is what some corporatists want very badly, I think.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
I am praying that folks wake up for the primaries in both parties and punish the far lefties and hard righties.
What far lefties? Are you seriously claiming that the "far left" has any representatives in the Democratic Party? Who would those be?
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
I am praying that folks wake up for the primaries in both parties and punish the far lefties and hard righties.
What far lefties? Are you seriously claiming that the "far left" has any representatives in the Democratic Party? Who would those be?
I was thinking the same thing. The 'far left' was last seen boarding Bobby Kennedy's funeral train, never to be seen or heard from again...
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
I am praying that folks wake up for the primaries in both parties and punish the far lefties and hard righties.
What far lefties? Are you seriously claiming that the "far left" has any representatives in the Democratic Party? Who would those be?
How many would you like listed? Not in any particular order:

1) Nancy Pelosi
2) Carl Levin
3) Harry Reid
4) Chuck Schumer
5) Jim McGovern
6) Sherrod Brown


I can think of a few more far lefties, there are many moderate dems too...i'm not saying there aren't any moderate democrats....but there are several far left ones in the house/senate.
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