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11-04-2009, 03:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice.
Why do people automatically 'believe' every Church, rev, or pastor brainwashes people into thinking the exact same way they do? Not everyone who goes to Church lives, breaths, or thinks the same way their rev or pastor does. Many folks actually have a mind of their own. You're missing the point. Your pastor didn't preach hate against other races, or his own country. It's widely known what Rev Wright's radical views are. For Obama not to disassociate himself with Rev Wright after 20 years of that radical hate speech, shows at some level Obama is in agreement with him, or influenced by what he's heard.
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen? I don't believe Obama hates America at all, or any other race of people either. Inspite of what you and some others seem to have 'made' yourselves believe he's shown he is opened to all races. Not just blacks. Trying to keep playing the race card doesn't work and it never has. | 
11-04-2009, 04:15 AM
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Nothing.
Just a man who appeared to me to be perfectly reasonable. A man who was making some reasonable observations.
I suppose my outrage might come later.
__________________ This computer has been drinking...not me.
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11-04-2009, 04:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice.
Why do people automatically 'believe' every Church, rev, or pastor brainwashes people into thinking the exact same way they do? Not everyone who goes to Church lives, breaths, or thinks the same way their rev or pastor does. Many folks actually have a mind of their own. and some are smart enough to know when to get the hell out instead of sitting there listening to a maniac puke his vomit all over the congregation. | 
11-04-2009, 05:10 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondDave No no... he's not a radical...  What Wright says in this snippet is not radical at all. It makes perfect sense. It would be excellent advice for any parent to pass along to their child...learn to look at things from all angles and perspectives, but always put God and his creation, people first...
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche
__________________ The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith | 
11-04-2009, 07:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondDave No no... he's not a radical...  So what if he is?
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11-04-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
Quote: Originally Posted by WillowTree
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice.
Why do people automatically 'believe' every Church, rev, or pastor brainwashes people into thinking the exact same way they do? Not everyone who goes to Church lives, breaths, or thinks the same way their rev or pastor does. Many folks actually have a mind of their own. except in this case he did. obamalama said so, wrote so in his books. get a clue. i bet you voted for hymn too clueless and blind.
Where does Obama say, in any of his books, that Wright made all his decisions, or made Obama believe any 1 thing the exact same way he does? Do you have a link because I don't remember reading anything like that. I just thought I would give you a few quotes from President Obama's books Cindy, and you know while I don't believe that Rev. Wright formed all of President Obama's opinions for him he is one person in a whole host of others that President Obama has known that have helped formulate some of his beliefs, perhaps this is why the President found himself to be a member of the church for 20 years until such time as he ran for president? I didn't see where he found a need when he ran for Senator to part ways from the church, perhaps this was because his relationships were not exposed on a national level?
"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."- Dreams from My Father
"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, Dubois and Mandela."-Dreams from my Father
"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction." The Audacity of Hope
"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother — a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
Barack Obama
Regarding inflammatory racial remarks of his Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah White, speech on race, March 18, 2008.
and yet. later on in the campaign.....
I’ve known Reverend Wright for almost twenty years. The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met twenty years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church. They certainly don’t portray accurately my values and beliefs and if Reverend Wright thinks that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well and based on his remarks yesterday, well I may not know him as well as I thought either.
Barack Obama
At press conference following Reverend Jeremiah Wright's speech at Press Club event, April 29, 2008.
So you see Cindy, even though the value system has not changed it depends on the need at the time. President Obama was influenced by Rev. Wrights church and went on at lenght about it in his book Dreams, so to dismiss this out of hand is to deny all the the things that make up the president.
__________________ God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.
Chester W. Nimitz | | The Following User Says Thank You to Navy1960 For This Useful Post: | | 
11-04-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
Quote: Originally Posted by WillowTree
except in this case he did. obamalama said so, wrote so in his books. get a clue. i bet you voted for hymn too clueless and blind.
Where does Obama say, in any of his books, that Wright made all his decisions, or made Obama believe any 1 thing the exact same way he does? Do you have a link because I don't remember reading anything like that. I just thought I would give you a few quotes from President Obama's books Cindy, and you know while I don't believe that Rev. Wright formed all of President Obama's opinions for him he is one person in a whole host of others that President Obama has known that have helped formulate some of his beliefs, perhaps this is why the President found himself to be a member of the church for 20 years until such time as he ran for president? I didn't see where he found a need when he ran for Senator to part ways from the church, perhaps this was because his relationships were not exposed on a national level?
"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."- Dreams from My Father
"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, Dubois and Mandela."-Dreams from my Father
"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction." The Audacity of Hope
"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother — a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
Barack Obama
Regarding inflammatory racial remarks of his Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah White, speech on race, March 18, 2008.
and yet. later on in the campaign.....
I’ve known Reverend Wright for almost twenty years. The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met twenty years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church. They certainly don’t portray accurately my values and beliefs and if Reverend Wright thinks that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well and based on his remarks yesterday, well I may not know him as well as I thought either.
Barack Obama
At press conference following Reverend Jeremiah Wright's speech at Press Club event, April 29, 2008.
So you see Cindy, even though the value system has not changed it depends on the need at the time. President Obama was influenced by Rev. Wrights church and went on at lenght about it in his book Dreams, so to dismiss this out of hand is to deny all the the things that make up the president. Navy...this board is infested with right wing ignorance, but I considered you an intelligent conservative...
But this is right wing ignorance...McCarthyism...
Barack Obama's diverse background, education and experiences have enhanced, not diminished his abilities...
To be taught ONE way, ONE set of beliefs and ONE way of seeing the world is not knowledge...it's conformity, indoctrination and dogma...
Equality, rightly understood as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences; wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism. Barry Goldwater
__________________ The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith | 
11-04-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice.
Why do people automatically 'believe' every Church, rev, or pastor brainwashes people into thinking the exact same way they do? Not everyone who goes to Church lives, breaths, or thinks the same way their rev or pastor does. Many folks actually have a mind of their own. You're missing the point. Your pastor didn't preach hate against other races, or his own country. It's widely known what Rev Wright's radical views are. For Obama not to disassociate himself with Rev Wright after 20 years of that radical hate speech, shows at some level Obama is in agreement with him, or influenced by what he's heard.
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen? I don't believe Obama hates America at all, or any other race of people either. Inspite of what you and some others seem to have 'made' yourselves believe he's shown he is opened to all races. Not just blacks. Trying to keep playing the race card doesn't work and it never has. I don't remember saying anything about Obama hating other races, or America. I guess you choose not to answer my very simple question.
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen for over 20 years?
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
Also, Obama very blatantly showed his own racial bias, over the Professor Gates fiasco. | | The Following User Says Thank You to SenseCommon For This Useful Post: | | 
11-04-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
You're missing the point. Your pastor didn't preach hate against other races, or his own country. It's widely known what Rev Wright's radical views are. For Obama not to disassociate himself with Rev Wright after 20 years of that radical hate speech, shows at some level Obama is in agreement with him, or influenced by what he's heard.
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen? I don't believe Obama hates America at all, or any other race of people either. Inspite of what you and some others seem to have 'made' yourselves believe he's shown he is opened to all races. Not just blacks. Trying to keep playing the race card doesn't work and it never has. I don't remember saying anything about Obama hating other races, or America. I guess you choose not to answer my very simple question.
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen for over 20 years?
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
Also, Obama very blatantly showed his own racial bias, over the Professor Gates fiasco. How to be a paranoid right wing pea brain...
First...create a caricatures of a person...make him ALL evil, 24/7 evil...cardboard cutout depth...
THEN... use your tiny pea, your ingrained polarized thinking...and pee your pants in FEAR
__________________ The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith | 
11-04-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn
Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
I don't believe Obama hates America at all, or any other race of people either. Inspite of what you and some others seem to have 'made' yourselves believe he's shown he is opened to all races. Not just blacks. Trying to keep playing the race card doesn't work and it never has. I don't remember saying anything about Obama hating other races, or America. I guess you choose not to answer my very simple question.
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen for over 20 years?
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
Also, Obama very blatantly showed his own racial bias, over the Professor Gates fiasco. How to be a paranoid right wing pea brain...
First...create a caricatures of a person...make him ALL evil, 24/7 evil...cardboard cutout depth...
THEN... use your tiny pea, your ingrained polarized thinking...and pee your pants in FEAR You are the definition of what is to be a liberal in todays American. I place a very simple question at your feet. Yet you'd rather call names and run and hide, than answer the very simple question that I pose to you.
To further call you out on your passive-aggressive incompetence. I'd be characterized as a moderate liberal. I'm not close to being a Conservative.
Liberals in todays America are much more comfortable bitching at Conservatives, than being in power and leading the way in this country. Secretly, you'd probably rather have Conservatives win various elections, because bitching on the sidelines is a lot more safe and comfortable. Liberals/Democrats are unable to have an accountable debate, without bringing it back to something negative Bush/Republicans have done in another area. The Democrats/Liberals in this country, have become a party of pussy elitists who can't lead. Get it together! | | The Following User Says Thank You to SenseCommon For This Useful Post: | | 
11-04-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice. Why would you continue to attend a church that is so different from your personal beliefs? Because I liked the Pastor and I still do. I also knew everyone there and I didn't disagree with him 100% on every single issue either. My Mother still goes to the same Church even though there is a different pastor there now. She too believes in a womans right of choice and she also believes in gay rights as well. Something the Church and Pastor don't believe in at all. She still considers herself to be a conservative-republican. So, you see, people can still go to Church and have a mind of their own at the same time. Why do you think Churches and pastors are made to brainwash people?  A baptist conservative that believes in gay marriage and abortion?? Yeah, right. | 
11-04-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn
Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky
I don't believe Obama hates America at all, or any other race of people either. Inspite of what you and some others seem to have 'made' yourselves believe he's shown he is opened to all races. Not just blacks. Trying to keep playing the race card doesn't work and it never has. I don't remember saying anything about Obama hating other races, or America. I guess you choose not to answer my very simple question.
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen for over 20 years?
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
Also, Obama very blatantly showed his own racial bias, over the Professor Gates fiasco. How to be a paranoid right wing pea brain...
First...create a caricatures of a person...make him ALL evil, 24/7 evil...cardboard cutout depth...
THEN... use your tiny pea, your ingrained polarized thinking...and pee your pants in FEAR  Like the left wasn't guilty of the same thing with Bush. I guess some learned well over those 8 years, didn't they? | 
11-04-2009, 11:55 AM
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Rep Power: 23 | | | The "GOD DAMN AMERICA" Loons are currently running our country and that should terrify all common sense thinking Americans. Yikes! | 
11-04-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CindyInKentucky  I went to the same Church for almost 20 years. It's a Baptist Church. I was very close with my pastor too, but I never let 'his' personal belief, or views change my own, or shape my own either. My pastor never had any 'hold' over my own thoughts, or my personal beliefs on many different issues and levels. I've been a supporter for gay righs since the 70's. I have always been an advocate womens rights... Pro-choice.
Why do people automatically 'believe' every Church, rev, or pastor brainwashes people into thinking the exact same way they do? Not everyone who goes to Church lives, breaths, or thinks the same way their rev or pastor does. Many folks actually have a mind of their own. That means you did not pay attention or just didn't care because I know a lot of people who do stop attending their churches when the church says something they don't agree with. Your entire opinion is a complete lie in order to justify your approval of the president. | 
11-04-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn
Quote: Originally Posted by SenseCommon I don't remember saying anything about Obama hating other races, or America. I guess you choose not to answer my very simple question.
If you don't agree with what's being preached, why continue to listen for over 20 years?
The day my pastor started preaching hate against races, or hate in general, is the same day he stops being my pastor!
Also, Obama very blatantly showed his own racial bias, over the Professor Gates fiasco. How to be a paranoid right wing pea brain...
First...create a caricatures of a person...make him ALL evil, 24/7 evil...cardboard cutout depth...
THEN... use your tiny pea, your ingrained polarized thinking...and pee your pants in FEAR You are the definition of what is to be a liberal in todays American. I place a very simple question at your feet. Yet you'd rather call names and run and hide, than answer the very simple question that I pose to you.
To further call you out on your passive-aggressive incompetence. I'd be characterized as a moderate liberal. I'm not close to being a Conservative.
Liberals in todays America are much more comfortable bitching at Conservatives, than being in power and leading the way in this country. Secretly, you'd probably rather have Conservatives win various elections, because bitching on the sidelines is a lot more safe and comfortable. Liberals/Democrats are unable to have an accountable debate, without bringing it back to something negative Bush/Republicans have done in another area. The Democrats/Liberals in this country, have become a party of pussy elitists who can't lead. Get it together! Of course you ask simple questions, you have a simple mind... human beings are complex creatures, yet you are willing to judge, discount and discard a 70 year old man's whole life on third party information and You tube snippets...a man of peace that has harmed no one and helped thousands of fellow citizens...
IMO, liberals stand little chance of power in today's uneducated America. They are too honest. The right has no sets of morals that cause them to contemplate or question their beliefs or actions...they only tell people what to FEAR and who to hate. and they have decided that the real enemy in America is liberals...
Ironic, America was founded on liberal tenets...
But there is never a human part of their equation...
__________________ The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith |  | |
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