Great Yard Sign Explaining President Obama's Change

edthecynic · #31 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by AllieBaba

Crud, I tried to edit that to say, "Dufus, 4 times in 8 years is nothing."

My bad. Not that I checked. But you're usually a little more accurate than boobo. Not much, but a little. I meant to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Try 8 times in the 6 years after the 1981 tax cut. The election year of 1988 was the the only other year St Ronnie didn't raise taxes.

Here is a list of Reagan's tax increases after his ONLY tax cut in 1981.

First term

1. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982

2. Highway Revenue Act of 1982

3. Social Security Amendments of 1983

4. Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act of 1983

5. Deficit Reduction Act of 1984

Second term

6. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985

7. Tax Reform Act of 1986

8. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987

edthecynic · #32 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ALLBizFR0M925

Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man

Obama inherited a huge, huge mess.

All Americans should at least give him a chance

How much time would you like us to give him? The last campaign was 22 months long!

But CON$ were blaming the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst recession since the Great Depression, on Carter two full years into Reagan's first term.

The American Spectator : Fumbling Around
The American Spectator
SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE GIPPER Philip Klein:
Reagan's first two years in office were an expansion of the Carter depression

ScreamingEagle · #33 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Quote: Originally Posted by AllieBaba

Crud, I tried to edit that to say, "Dufus, 4 times in 8 years is nothing."

My bad. Not that I checked. But you're usually a little more accurate than boobo. Not much, but a little. I meant to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Try 8 times in the 6 years after the 1981 tax cut. The election year of 1988 was the the only other year St Ronnie didn't raise taxes.

Here is a list of Reagan's tax increases after his ONLY tax cut in 1981.

First term

1. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982

2. Highway Revenue Act of 1982

3. Social Security Amendments of 1983

4. Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act of 1983

5. Deficit Reduction Act of 1984

Second term

6. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985

7. Tax Reform Act of 1986

8. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987

....didn't Reagan go along with Democrats on raising some taxes as long as they promised to cut spending by the same amount...? (and then they kept kept on spending....)

All this fuss about Reagan raising a few taxes is one big attempt by liberals to obfuscate the FACT that Reagan's massive tax cuts had great results....read it and weep...

Quote:

When Reagan left the White House, the deficit amounted to 2.8 percent of Gross Domestic Product, after having hit 6 percent of GDP in 1983. The economy grew out of the 1982 recession and by the end of Reagan’s presidency the unemployment rate was 5 percent, less than half what it was in 1982.

Breaking News, Weather, Business, Health, Entertainment, Sports, Politics, Travel, Science, Technology, Local, US & World News- msnbc.com

edthecynic · #34 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ScreamingEagle

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Quote: Originally Posted by AllieBaba

Crud, I tried to edit that to say, "Dufus, 4 times in 8 years is nothing."

My bad. Not that I checked. But you're usually a little more accurate than boobo. Not much, but a little. I meant to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Try 8 times in the 6 years after the 1981 tax cut. The election year of 1988 was the the only other year St Ronnie didn't raise taxes.

Here is a list of Reagan's tax increases after his ONLY tax cut in 1981.

First term

1. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982

2. Highway Revenue Act of 1982

3. Social Security Amendments of 1983

4. Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act of 1983

5. Deficit Reduction Act of 1984

Second term

6. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985

7. Tax Reform Act of 1986

8. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987

Sometimes to be fiscally conservative one must raise taxes...

....but didn't Reagan go along with Democrats on raising some taxes as long as they promised to cut spending by the same amount...? (and then they kept kept on spending....typical)

All this fuss about Reagan raising a few taxes is one big attempt by liberals to obfuscate the FACT that Reagan's massive tax cuts had great results....read it and weep...

Quote:

When Reagan left the White House, the deficit amounted to 2.8 percent of Gross Domestic Product, after having hit 6 percent of GDP in 1983. The economy grew out of the 1982 recession and by the end of Reagan’s presidency the unemployment rate was 5 percent, less than half what it was in 1982.

Breaking News, Weather, Business, Health, Entertainment, Sports, Politics, Travel, Science, Technology, Local, US & World News- msnbc.com

The result of the 1981 tax cut was the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst since the Great Depression, with a 6% of GDP deficit, a 10.8% max unemployment rate with 10 months of double digit unemployment, a 20.5% max interest rate and a -6.8% GDP.
The result of the eight 1982 through 1987 tax increases was the reduction of the deficit to 2.8% and reduction of unemployment to 5.3%, and a reduction of interest rates to 11%. Get your chronology straight please.

oreo · #35 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man

Obama inherited a huge, huge mess.

All Americans should at least give him a chance

??He's already had 787 BILLION chances-

-that hasn't worked & there is some suggesting that he may need billions more in chances.

garyd · #36 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 10:57 PM

RobertI'm assuming you've suffered some sort of head trauma since you posted here last. You almost used to be sane and rational. Excuse me but please explain to me what part of taking over GM, half the banking industry and the health care system is not socialist? You are right about one thing though classical liberals like G. WAshington, T. Jefferson, and J. Adams would have been appalled. Obama is not a liberal but then neither if words still meant something in this country are you.

garyd · #37 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:01 PM

No ed you do not get a recession due to a tax rate cut that will have no impact before the mid point of 1982 at the absolute earliest and most of which will have no impact prior to the point in which most of us paid 1982 taxes and got our refunds in 1983.

Modbert · #38 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by garyd

RobertI'm assuming you've suffered some sort of head trauma since you posted here last. You almost used to be sane and rational. Excuse me but please explain to me what part of taking over GM, half the banking industry and the health care system is not socialist? You are right about one thing though classical liberals like G. WAshington, T. Jefferson, and J. Adams would have been appalled. Obama is not a liberal but then neither if words still meant something in this country are you.

You do in fact realize these companies all willfully took this bailout money? Nobody held a gun to their heads when they begged for the money.

You seem to think it's Socialist but it's not. Especially when it's merely a bailout that will be paid back to the US Treasury later on. When that happens, the Government will have less and less ownership until it dwindles down to nothing again.

The same thing happened in the late 70's with Chrysler and the US Treasury ended up making $350 million off that deal. Stop acting like this is the first time that any sort of company received some kind of bailout. It's not.

edthecynic · #39 (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by garyd

No ed you do not get a recession due to a tax rate cut that will have no impact before the mid point of 1982 at the absolute earliest and most of which will have no impact prior to the point in which most of us paid 1982 taxes and got our refunds in 1983.

No matter how many times you repeat that crap it will NEVER be true!!!

The tax cut passed in August 1981 and St Ronnie's first budget began October 1981, so everybody's WITHHOLDING was cut LONG before any 1983 refunds.

PLYMCO_PILGRIM · #40 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by plymco_pilgrim

I also wonder if such people feel the same way about the obama defecit as the bush defecit. Since many feel he inherited the problem I will ask a more specific question, are you upset that instead of keeping pace with or doing better than Bush's defecit spending obama has increased it 4 fold?

Are you upset that even though the Iraqi's have taken over their own security in the cities Obama has yet to even bring 1 brigade of troops home?

How about obama saying that the stimulus plan acheived its goals? Do you agree with me that him saying that is as ridiculous as bush landing on an aircraft carrier with the "mission accomplished" banner? Sure we accomplished the mission of removing saddam from power so technically it was right, but we all know that the mission still had a long way to go. Maybe obama did acheive HIS goals already with the stimulus bill....i mean the govt is growing and taking over private industries.

Robert I will answer you post but do you care to answer mine above also? Just curious if you are holding obama to standards too or just democratic circle jerking his actions?

Quote: Originally Posted by Modbert

Sorry for intruding upon the Republican circle jerk for a moment. However, I would like to know why more regulation is such a bad thing? It was NO regulation that got us partly into this mess in the first place.

However, I don't expect many Republicans to understand economics, rather just go by politics while chanting the "Mantra No New Taxes!"

Cause you know, Reagan, George H.W Bush, etc followed that so well.

By the way, it's hilariously ironic that Republicans act the same way many did during the Bush Administration about Bush becoming a dictator. Meanwhile, they bitched about those "damn Liberals" that dear act unpatriotic and act like the President is going to topple the government.

But it's different, right?

I'll stop intruding your circle jerk now, feel free to continue.

Let me adress this post since everyone overlooked it on you.

1) It was the housing regulations put into place that caused the financial collapse. Clinton and Bush both increased the percentage of Fannie/Freddy housing loans that MUST go to low income/high risk borrowers during their presidencies, through regulations on lending. IMO it was the failure of these loans that got the ball rolling on this problem.

2) I'm one of those people that is slamming obama that was also mad at bush about his defecit spending and his unconstitutional patriot act (that many democrats voted for BTW)

3) Its not different at all. Bush did the same stupid stuff obama is doing now...in fact the stuff bush did that helped put us into this mess Obama is also doing. The difference is Obama is actually doing MORE of the bad stuff than Bush did. Bush signed 800billion in stimulus and Obama has already passed 4trillion MORE in stimulus/bailouts/tarp ect. Neither president offers/offered a plan to pay for it in an intelligent and productive way.

4) I totally agree with what you said about republicans treating obama and acting in the same manner as they derided liberals for doing to bush. Good thing I'm an American and not a demoncrat or retardican so I can see through the ideological haze of talking points.

I really hope your not being blinded by party ideology into supporting Obama's horrible economic policies.

ScreamingEagle · #41 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Quote: Originally Posted by ScreamingEagle

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Try 8 times in the 6 years after the 1981 tax cut. The election year of 1988 was the the only other year St Ronnie didn't raise taxes.

Here is a list of Reagan's tax increases after his ONLY tax cut in 1981.

First term

1. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982

2. Highway Revenue Act of 1982

3. Social Security Amendments of 1983

4. Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act of 1983

5. Deficit Reduction Act of 1984

Second term

6. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985

7. Tax Reform Act of 1986

8. Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987

Sometimes to be fiscally conservative one must raise taxes...

....but didn't Reagan go along with Democrats on raising some taxes as long as they promised to cut spending by the same amount...? (and then they kept kept on spending....typical)

All this fuss about Reagan raising a few taxes is one big attempt by liberals to obfuscate the FACT that Reagan's massive tax cuts had great results....read it and weep...

Quote:

When Reagan left the White House, the deficit amounted to 2.8 percent of Gross Domestic Product, after having hit 6 percent of GDP in 1983. The economy grew out of the 1982 recession and by the end of Reagan’s presidency the unemployment rate was 5 percent, less than half what it was in 1982.

Breaking News, Weather, Business, Health, Entertainment, Sports, Politics, Travel, Science, Technology, Local, US & World News- msnbc.com

The result of the 1981 tax cut was the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst since the Great Depression, with a 6% of GDP deficit, a 10.8% max unemployment rate with 10 months of double digit unemployment, a 20.5% max interest rate and a -6.8% GDP.
The result of the eight 1982 through 1987 tax increases was the reduction of the deficit to 2.8% and reduction of unemployment to 5.3%, and a reduction of interest rates to 11%. Get your chronology straight please.

Sorry...but that claim is nothing more than partisan hack spewage...it wasn't "Reagan's Recession".....there is no way that the tax cuts would have had such an immediate effect....the 1980-1982 recession was already well under way....unemployment stats follow a period of no growth...the ecnonomy began to grow again in 1983....the CAUSE of that recession was that the Paul Volcker Fed kept money too tight because of the inflation problems they'd had during the 70s....in fact....Reagan's tax cuts probably headed off another Depression....

Quote:

Had there been no compensating increases in the other components of aggregate demand the levels of investment and GDP would have continued downward and there would have been a full blown depression. But there were compensating changes. The most publicized was the Reagan Tax Cut. There were cuts in some fields of Federal government purchases but increases, notably in defense, in others.

The tax cut was justified in terms of Supply-side Economics but equally well could have been justified in terms of demand-side stimulation of the economy. The increase in government purchases along with the tax cut led one economist to characterized the economic policy of the Reagan administration as being "Keynesianism on steroids." Regardless of how the policies were publicized and characterized the end result is that they kept the anti-inflation policy of the Volcker Fed from recreating the conditions of 1929-1930 when the Fed precipitated the Great Depression.

Index Page for applet-magic.com - The Recession 1980-1982

Navy1960 · #42 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 10:33 AM

I see so when you get a mess from a previous Administration, the way to fix it is to make it an even bigger mess in a shorter period of time? Or perhaps while doing so pay every pork program from coast to coast at the expense of people out of work daily? I'm sure the turtle tunnel in Fl. is a shinning example of economic recovery and the almost half a million people who lost their jobs last month will appreciate Obama's efforts on behalf of those turtles.

edthecynic · #43 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ScreamingEagle

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Quote: Originally Posted by ScreamingEagle

Sometimes to be fiscally conservative one must raise taxes...

....but didn't Reagan go along with Democrats on raising some taxes as long as they promised to cut spending by the same amount...? (and then they kept kept on spending....typical)

All this fuss about Reagan raising a few taxes is one big attempt by liberals to obfuscate the FACT that Reagan's massive tax cuts had great results....read it and weep...

The result of the 1981 tax cut was the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst since the Great Depression, with a 6% of GDP deficit, a 10.8% max unemployment rate with 10 months of double digit unemployment, a 20.5% max interest rate and a -6.8% GDP.
The result of the eight 1982 through 1987 tax increases was the reduction of the deficit to 2.8% and reduction of unemployment to 5.3%, and a reduction of interest rates to 11%. Get your chronology straight please.

Sorry...but that claim is nothing more than partisan hack spewage...it wasn't "Reagan's Recession".....there is no way that the tax cuts would have had such an immediate effect....the 1980-1982 recession was already well under way....unemployment stats follow a period of no growth...the ecnonomy began to grow again in 1983....the CAUSE of that recession was that the Paul Volcker Fed kept money too tight because of the inflation problems they'd had during the 70s....in fact....Reagan's tax cuts probably headed off another Depression....

Quote:

Had there been no compensating increases in the other components of aggregate demand the levels of investment and GDP would have continued downward and there would have been a full blown depression. But there were compensating changes. The most publicized was the Reagan Tax Cut. There were cuts in some fields of Federal government purchases but increases, notably in defense, in others.

The tax cut was justified in terms of Supply-side Economics but equally well could have been justified in terms of demand-side stimulation of the economy. The increase in government purchases along with the tax cut led one economist to characterized the economic policy of the Reagan administration as being "Keynesianism on steroids." Regardless of how the policies were publicized and characterized the end result is that they kept the anti-inflation policy of the Volcker Fed from recreating the conditions of 1929-1930 when the Fed precipitated the Great Depression.

Index Page for applet-magic.com - The Recession 1980-1982

There was no 1980-1982 recession, just the revisionism of a typical CON$ervative hack.

The 1980 Carter recession was the shortest in history, 6 months ending in July of 1980. By contrast, the 16 month 1981-1982 Reagan recession was the longest since the Great Depression, beginning the second half of 1981 and lasting through 1982.

PoliticalChic · #44 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Modbert

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic

I understand your somewhat tortuous effort to support President Obama, basically using the old 'it was worse before.' So five minutes ago.

But the effort proves to be so thin because of the many Bush policies that the current administration is employing.

Now, this may be a bit 'inside baseball' for most, but for you I assume the protestations of the American Bar Association about the Bush Administration's use of Signing Statements, claiming that they were unconstitutional, and, in fact Senator Obama claiming the same, were of some concern.

But aren't you chagrined that now President Obama is using the same techniques here as President Bush did?

One other thing:

And some call me crazy when I say Obama isn't even that much of a Liberal. Everyone thinks the guy is a Socialist when he's not even that much of a Liberal.

What, the Brat is back?

I guess you finished all of your deliveries?

ScreamingEagle · #45 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

Quote: Originally Posted by ScreamingEagle

Quote: Originally Posted by edthecynic

The result of the 1981 tax cut was the 1982 Reagan Recession, the worst since the Great Depression, with a 6% of GDP deficit, a 10.8% max unemployment rate with 10 months of double digit unemployment, a 20.5% max interest rate and a -6.8% GDP.
The result of the eight 1982 through 1987 tax increases was the reduction of the deficit to 2.8% and reduction of unemployment to 5.3%, and a reduction of interest rates to 11%. Get your chronology straight please.

Sorry...but that claim is nothing more than partisan hack spewage...it wasn't "Reagan's Recession".....there is no way that the tax cuts would have had such an immediate effect....the 1980-1982 recession was already well under way....unemployment stats follow a period of no growth...the ecnonomy began to grow again in 1983....the CAUSE of that recession was that the Paul Volcker Fed kept money too tight because of the inflation problems they'd had during the 70s....in fact....Reagan's tax cuts probably headed off another Depression....

Quote:

Had there been no compensating increases in the other components of aggregate demand the levels of investment and GDP would have continued downward and there would have been a full blown depression. But there were compensating changes. The most publicized was the Reagan Tax Cut. There were cuts in some fields of Federal government purchases but increases, notably in defense, in others.

The tax cut was justified in terms of Supply-side Economics but equally well could have been justified in terms of demand-side stimulation of the economy. The increase in government purchases along with the tax cut led one economist to characterized the economic policy of the Reagan administration as being "Keynesianism on steroids." Regardless of how the policies were publicized and characterized the end result is that they kept the anti-inflation policy of the Volcker Fed from recreating the conditions of 1929-1930 when the Fed precipitated the Great Depression.

Index Page for applet-magic.com - The Recession 1980-1982

There was no 1980-1982 recession, just the revisionism of a typical CON$ervative hack.

The 1980 Carter recession was the shortest in history, 6 months ending in July of 1980. By contrast, the 16 month 1981-1982 Reagan recession was the longest since the Great Depression, beginning the second half of 1981 and lasting through 1982.

oh yeah sure thing.....the prior Carter term had absolutely no effect on the economy.....

.....just a teensy weensy blip that disappeared almost overnight....

.....but Reagan began his presidency in 1981 and six months later caused the biggest recession in history.....

....yarn me another one...

....and tell me why is it that your Big O is not claiming this as his recession....six months into his presidency...

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