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06-18-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Actually AG's are supposed to be independent as well. The POTUS HAS unrestricted power to fire those. Every President has exercised that power, be it Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and both Bush's. Incorrect. You can't do it for political reasons. what part of "serves at the pleasure of" confuses you?
they're usually fired for political reasons. they belong to the wrong party.
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06-18-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder Yes, it does matter. The POTUS cannot remove these IGs until after the 30 days has expired. The law is clear, counselor.
And as to the smears Obama has put out on Walprin being "confused" and maybe even senile? No dice, he passed the test on that just yesterday.
And even if so, Jillian, he now has a ADA claim does he not? Yes, he does. Umm, care to provide proof that Walperin has been locked out and can't enter?
How exactly did Walperin prove that he wasn't confused?
And no, he doesn't have an ADA claim. Walprin took the standard test the APA used to diagnose senility, confusion, and dementia and passed with flying colors. Link? Quote: He not only SAYS he is locked out, he also has a termination letter which is quite clear. Link? Quote: What about the other two IGs who have been dismissed? Aren't you getting maybe just a LITTLE bit suspicious? Maybe just a tiny bit curious? Maybe even just a smidgen cynical? I haven't heard much about them. | 
06-18-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jillian
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by jillian If he's still being paid for the next 30 days, it doesn't matter that his stuff was packed, IMO. And if this is true, then one would understand why he'd be out.... Yes, it does matter. The POTUS cannot remove these IGs until after the 30 days has expired. The law is clear, counselor.
And as to the smears Obama has put out on Walprin being "confused" and maybe even senile? No dice, he passed the test on that just yesterday.
And even if so, Jillian, he now has a ADA claim does he not? Yes, he does. I see a lot of assertions from you without any evidence. I'm afraid I can't offer any opinions without that. I'm kind of funny that way.
As for an ADA claim, how do you figure? First off, I posted the LAW earlier. The one that spells it out clearly, these IGs cannot be removed until AFTER the 30-day notice has expired.
Under the Americans with Disabilities act, dementia and senility -- and even AGE -- are protected. The employer is required to attempt to make accommodations. This applies to the hiring process as well as to the termination process.
Here's an account of the firing, from Walprin himself: Gerald Walpin speaks: The inside story of the AmeriCorps firing | Washington Examiner
Here's Hot Air's take on the test, not that you'll read it or watch the video: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Sweet: Glenn Beck gives Gerald Walpin a senility test
I know none of you Obamaphiles really care what Obama does. That's a given. But my own optimism of the human being allows me to at least try to get your brain cells working again. Because I am optimistic that you still have them, somewhere in the foggy haze of Obama cult worship.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Old Crocks I gave you a peer reviewed current article concerning the warming of the oceans. (it was from 2000! )
Quote: Originally Posted by Octodolt In terms of stationary wind mill farms all that is needed is jet engines to provide wind when natural winds are not available. ^^^ Yes, Octodolt is SERIOUS!!!     | 
06-18-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by jillian
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder Yes, it does matter. The POTUS cannot remove these IGs until after the 30 days has expired. The law is clear, counselor.
And as to the smears Obama has put out on Walprin being "confused" and maybe even senile? No dice, he passed the test on that just yesterday.
And even if so, Jillian, he now has a ADA claim does he not? Yes, he does. I see a lot of assertions from you without any evidence. I'm afraid I can't offer any opinions without that. I'm kind of funny that way.
As for an ADA claim, how do you figure? First off, I posted the LAW earlier. The one that spells it out clearly, these IGs cannot be removed until AFTER the 30-day notice has expired.
Under the Americans with Disabilities act, dementia and senility -- and even AGE -- are protected. The employer is required to attempt to make accommodations. This applies to the hiring process as well as to the termination process.
Here's an account of the firing, from Walprin himself: Gerald Walpin speaks: The inside story of the AmeriCorps firing | Washington Examiner
Here's Hot Air's take on the test, not that you'll read it or watch the video: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Sweet: Glenn Beck gives Gerald Walpin a senility test
I know none of you Obamaphiles really care what Obama does. That's a given. But my own optimism of the human being allows me to at least try to get your brain cells working again. Because I am optimistic that you still have them, somewhere in the foggy haze of Obama cult worship. Ouch...caught in a lie.
From Walperin himself Quote: Eisen said, 'You can either resign, or I'll tell you that we'll have to terminate you.'" Telling Walperin that he can resign isn't firing him. If Walperin resigns, there is no need to wait the 30 days, is there? But, since they are firing him and hes not resigning, the 30 day period goes into effect.
Umm...the ADA test was administered by Glenn Beck? And you take it seriously? Are you fucking kidding? | 
06-18-2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder What about the other two IGs who have been dismissed? I haven't heard much about them. Gee, wonder why? If it were Booooosh firing these guys, breaking the LAW in doing so, you sure as hell would have!
__________________ There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock-n-roll...<---- Click
Quote: Originally Posted by Old Crocks I gave you a peer reviewed current article concerning the warming of the oceans. (it was from 2000! )
Quote: Originally Posted by Octodolt In terms of stationary wind mill farms all that is needed is jet engines to provide wind when natural winds are not available. ^^^ Yes, Octodolt is SERIOUS!!!     | 
06-18-2009, 11:52 AM
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Rep Power: 33 | | | The AGs aren't independent, but they are lawyers, and are subject to Bar Assoc. rules on ethics. (Some of the ethics rules I have heard of are pretty immoral, but it is a restrictive craft guild, so that is pretty part for the course)
The ethics rules make it clear that they are officers of the court and they are forbidden certain kinds of behavior. So even if they get a direct order to do such and such, their status as "officer of the court" theoretically prevents that.
For example, they have to recuse themselves if they know their client is planning perjury, they can't advice on how to best break the law (but after it is broken, they can advice on how to best avoid the consequences)
As we saw in the clinton years, and as we are seeing now, this isn't really such a big deal to a lot of folks. | 
06-18-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Ouch...caught in a lie.
From Walperin himself Quote: Eisen said, 'You can either resign, or I'll tell you that we'll have to terminate you.'" Telling Walperin that he can resign isn't firing him. If Walperin resigns, there is no need to wait the 30 days, is there? But, since they are firing him and hes not resigning, the 30 day period goes into effect. "Resign or be fired" IS firing! For criminy's sakes! You think this is a loophole in the law? Now you're being intentionally dishonest, defending your Messiah blindly like a good little mindless cult follower. Quote: Umm...the ADA test was administered by Glenn Beck? And you take it seriously? Are you fucking kidding? It was the APA test. Try watching the dude take the test on live TV then ask yourself if YOU could pass it.
__________________ There won't be no country music, there won't be no rock-n-roll...<---- Click
Quote: Originally Posted by Old Crocks I gave you a peer reviewed current article concerning the warming of the oceans. (it was from 2000! )
Quote: Originally Posted by Octodolt In terms of stationary wind mill farms all that is needed is jet engines to provide wind when natural winds are not available. ^^^ Yes, Octodolt is SERIOUS!!!     | 
06-18-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder The POTUS HAS unrestricted power to fire those. Every President has exercised that power, be it Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and both Bush's. Incorrect. You can't do it for political reasons. what part of "serves at the pleasure of" confuses you?
they're usually fired for political reasons. they belong to the wrong party. So the president can fire an AG for refusing to have sex w/ him? Or refusing to give him $10,000? | 
06-18-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Ouch...caught in a lie.
From Walperin himself Quote: Eisen said, 'You can either resign, or I'll tell you that we'll have to terminate you.'" Telling Walperin that he can resign isn't firing him. If Walperin resigns, there is no need to wait the 30 days, is there? But, since they are firing him and hes not resigning, the 30 day period goes into effect. "Resign or be fired" IS firing! For criminy's sakes! You think this is a loophole in the law? Now you're being intentionally dishonest, defending your Messiah blindly like a good little mindless cult follower. Quote: Umm...the ADA test was administered by Glenn Beck? And you take it seriously? Are you fucking kidding? It was the APA test. Try watching the dude take the test on live TV then ask yourself if YOU could pass it. Resign or be fired is firing someone? How do you figure that? Notice that the term is "be fired". That is to say, will be fired in the future. | 
06-18-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by del
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Incorrect. You can't do it for political reasons. what part of "serves at the pleasure of" confuses you?
they're usually fired for political reasons. they belong to the wrong party. So the president can fire an AG for refusing to have sex w/ him? Or refusing to give him $10,000? first of all, it's u.s. attorneys, not AGs-there's only one AG.
and yes, the president can fire them for any reason s/he wishes or no reason at all.
as far as that goes, the same goes for the AG.
you should get out more.
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06-18-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by del
what part of "serves at the pleasure of" confuses you?
they're usually fired for political reasons. they belong to the wrong party. So the president can fire an AG for refusing to have sex w/ him? Or refusing to give him $10,000? first of all, it's u.s. attorneys, not AGs-there's only one AG.
and yes, the president can fire them for any reason s/he wishes or no reason at all.
as far as that goes, the same goes for the AG.
you should get out more. Wtf? You are actually saying that the president can fire a US attorney for refusing to have sex with him? You really aren't this stupid, are you? | 
06-18-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder
Quote: Originally Posted by jillian
Quote: Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder Yes, it does matter. The POTUS cannot remove these IGs until after the 30 days has expired. The law is clear, counselor.
And as to the smears Obama has put out on Walprin being "confused" and maybe even senile? No dice, he passed the test on that just yesterday.
And even if so, Jillian, he now has a ADA claim does he not? Yes, he does. I see a lot of assertions from you without any evidence. I'm afraid I can't offer any opinions without that. I'm kind of funny that way.
As for an ADA claim, how do you figure? First off, I posted the LAW earlier. The one that spells it out clearly, these IGs cannot be removed until AFTER the 30-day notice has expired.
Under the Americans with Disabilities act, dementia and senility -- and even AGE -- are protected. The employer is required to attempt to make accommodations. This applies to the hiring process as well as to the termination process.
Here's an account of the firing, from Walprin himself: Gerald Walpin speaks: The inside story of the AmeriCorps firing | Washington Examiner
Here's Hot Air's take on the test, not that you'll read it or watch the video: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Sweet: Glenn Beck gives Gerald Walpin a senility test
I know none of you Obamaphiles really care what Obama does. That's a given. But my own optimism of the human being allows me to at least try to get your brain cells working again. Because I am optimistic that you still have them, somewhere in the foggy haze of Obama cult worship. I saw the law. And as I said, if he's still on salary, he's not terminated. Is he still on salary?
And not to offend, but why would anything Glen Beck purports to do interest me?
And like I said, bloggers aren't evidence.
BTW, just to bring you up to speed... I'm not and have never been an "obamaphile". I supported Hillary. I VOTED for Obama because he kicked the butts of the guys YOU ran. And the thought of Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency made my stomach turn. That neither means unwavering support nor unreasonable criticism.
I've just found, as usual, that the whining right offers nothing credible and asked for something that actually is reliable before offering any opinion on the firing other than the fact that y'all are making a lot of noise before knowing anything; 2) who are these cronies you referred to (since that's a pretty heavy word); and 3) where were you and yours when the last admin tried to use the AG's as his own personal political strike force?
finally, i'm so not interested in either left or right wingnut blogs.
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06-18-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del what part of "serves at the pleasure of" confuses you?
they're usually fired for political reasons. they belong to the wrong party. but you CAN'T do it for the AG not doing a hatchet job on the person running against your party.
__________________ "Trust none of what you hear And less of what you see" Springsteen
When the Founding Fathers protected our right to free speech, I think that meant we were supposed to use it.
Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was the world's most unhinged lunatic. He's now dead. So that moves Ann Coulter up to first place - David Letterman
O, when she is angry she is keen and shrewd; / She was a vixen when she went to school, / And though she be but little, she is fierce. — Shakespeare | 
06-18-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
Quote: Originally Posted by del
Quote: Originally Posted by Nik
So the president can fire an AG for refusing to have sex w/ him? Or refusing to give him $10,000? first of all, it's u.s. attorneys, not AGs-there's only one AG.
and yes, the president can fire them for any reason s/he wishes or no reason at all.
as far as that goes, the same goes for the AG.
you should get out more. Wtf? You are actually saying that the president can fire a US attorney for refusing to have sex with him? You really aren't this stupid, are you? and we come back to what part of "serves at the pleasure of the president" confuses you? certainly, the us attorney in your ridiculous example would have recourse, but s/he wouldn't have a job.
or do you think when clinton had reno fire all the us attorneys in 1993, every single one of them was fired for cause?
pull your head out of your ass and take a deep breath; your brain is clearly starved for oxygen.
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06-18-2009, 12:09 PM
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