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08-26-2008, 10:51 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 0 | | | Why not Hilary as VP nominee?
I know that this has been discussed in the media... but really - I still don't get it!
Why, when for months.... it had been said that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be called "the dream team," did Barack Obama choose someone besides Hilary as the VP nominee?
I honestly find the decision NOT to pick Hilary as baffling.
I believe that by putting Hilary "to the side" will only anger Hilary supporters and further split the democratic party - which will be terribly unfortunate and will guarantee a victory for McCain.  |
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08-26-2008, 10:56 PM
|  | USMB Member | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central California
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Originally Posted by ville20  I know that this has been discussed in the media... but really - I still don't get it!
Why, when for months.... it had been said that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be called "the dream team," did Barack Obama choose someone besides Hilary as the VP nominee?
I honestly find the decision NOT to pick Hilary as baffling.
I believe that by putting Hilary "to the side" will only anger Hilary supporters and further split the democratic party - which will be terribly unfortunate and will guarantee a victory for McCain. |   |
08-26-2008, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CA95380 | Let me be clear.... I WILL vote for Obama/Biden.... however, I really just don't understand the political decision making process as it relates to this topic. |
08-26-2008, 11:07 PM
| | Yes we can! | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Va. Beach, Va.
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Originally Posted by ville20 Let me be clear.... I WILL vote for Obama/Biden.... however, I really just don't understand the political decision making process as it relates to this topic. | Two words, Bill Clinton. |
08-26-2008, 11:28 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 289
Rep Power: 2 | | | I think that Hillary's heart was set on being back in the White House and in charge. It would be really wierd for her to be VP. It would also be weird for Obama to have a VP and a VP's husband that knew his job better than he did. They'd be a couple of control freaks.
I think that everyone decided that it would be best for her to remain a Senator (not a bad position).
Biden would have been a better choice for Sec. of State, but I think that Obama needed an attack dog with some appeal to the white rural working class. Biden fit the ticket.
Too bad the Democrats can't scrape together an once of political brains. Obama would have been a great VP for Biden or Clinton. Now it's all up in the air. |
08-26-2008, 11:34 PM
|  | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,978
Rep Power: 10 | | | I can think of a few possible reasons. One is that there is so much footage of Hillary diminishing Obama, and saying that McCain is more qualified to lead. Granted, Biden said similar things, but not as strongly or as frequently. Two is, aren't there problems in the Clintons' past? LIke the whitewater scandal. Maybe that wouldn't be raised, maybe it is water under the bridge. But Biden seems to not have that sort of scandal. I think three might be that as a young president, it would be disconcerting to have a major political figure of the 1990's, who is still a major leader in the party, as the spouse of your running mate. Would it be an unstoppable ticket? Maybe - but I think the decision must have to take into account what the actual four-year working relationship would be like.
If McCain picked Hillary, that would be an unstoppable ticket too.
I really am glad for what Clinton and Obama have accomplished this year. To think that a short year and a half ago our country had never put a woman or a black up as a majopr party candidate, and this year our country essentially put up both. The democratic party should be proud for moving the bar forward.
The people who supported Hillary are some of the most dedicated and passionate people I know. Of the democratic field, she wasn't my personal first choice (I felt positively about several of them, but not terribly so about her, because she is polarising). She is really intelligent, she had good ideas on a variety of issues (although I disagreed that corn ethanol was a good idea), and she would make a strong president. The democrats were in a good position this year because several candidates in the original democratic field had a lot going for them. Biden and Richardson were both good contenders. But aside from those generalities, what I really want to say is that her supporters are some of the fiercest and strongest women I have ever seen! They are phenomenol! I have been really impressed by their passion.
On the republican side, I am relieved that McCain got the nomination. He is definitely a true american hero. He supports good science. He works across the aisle. He understands the importance of the environment and global warming. He has a lot going for him. He will do the right thing on the torture and extraordinary rendition issues.
I'm voting for Obama. But, whoever wins, this election cycle has really moved the US forward, in more ways than one. Clinton has done phenomenal things for our daughters. She had a direct effect on getting health care the focus that it needs. She inspires millions of americans. Obama has been a new face on a scene that we are all a little tired of. He speaks to some of the best inclinations that we have. McCain is a hero and although he has done a few things this campaign season that have been disappointing, he still shoots straight.
I guess I went on longer than I meant to, sorry about that!  |
08-26-2008, 11:47 PM
| | incompatible user | | Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,537
Rep Power: 205 | | | Hillary is too strong for Obama to risk it. Besides, she'll serve the country better as a Senator. |
08-26-2008, 11:55 PM
| | 1-20-09 | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Other Side of Paradise
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Originally Posted by Kirk Two words, Bill Clinton. | and he couldn't pick a VP who could have overshadowed him. But yes, the thought of Bill Clinton walking around the white house telling him how it should be done probably didn't sit well with him.
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08-27-2008, 12:00 AM
|  | Administrator | | Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Republic of Texas
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Originally Posted by ville20 I know that this has been discussed in the media... but really - I still don't get it!
Why, when for months.... it had been said that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be called "the dream team," did Barack Obama choose someone besides Hilary as the VP nominee?
I honestly find the decision NOT to pick Hilary as baffling.
I believe that by putting Hilary "to the side" will only anger Hilary supporters and further split the democratic party - which will be terribly unfortunate and will guarantee a victory for McCain. | Obama can't have a VP that will overshadow him. HIllary definitely would. I don't see her accepting the position anyway. She's not going to play second fiddle. She'll be back as a Republican in 2012. 
I'm surprised he picked Biden who also can easily overshadow him.
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08-27-2008, 01:02 AM
|  | Optimistically Apathetic | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR
Posts: 3,335
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Originally Posted by jillian and he couldn't pick a VP who could have overshadowed him. | ...and Joe Biden is known for sitting quietly in the background? 
But you're right, Obama didn't choose Hillary because he didn't want to be outdone by his VP.
Obama/Clinton was not a dream ticket. Clinton/Obama was.
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08-27-2008, 01:06 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 10 | | | She should have been... maybe Obama didnt like a gun pointed at his head... |
08-27-2008, 01:08 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by Caligirl I can think of a few possible reasons. One is that there is so much footage of Hillary diminishing Obama, and saying that McCain is more qualified to lead. Granted, Biden said similar things, but not as strongly or as frequently. | Sure he did...even moreso, so that can't be it! imo Quote: |
Two is, aren't there problems in the Clintons' past? LIke the whitewater scandal. Maybe that wouldn't be raised, maybe it is water under the bridge. But Biden seems to not have that sort of scandal.
| Sure he does...he's a plagiarist...supports mccain bigtime, said he would accept the vp position even from mccain...outside of that, he is a terrific guy!
and all the investigating was done, thoroughly already on Whitewater and all of the hundreds of scandals the republicans tried to nail them with. Quote: |
I think three might be that as a young president, it would be disconcerting to have a major political figure of the 1990's, who is still a major leader in the party, as the spouse of your running mate. Would it be an unstoppable ticket? Maybe - but I think the decision must have to take into account what the actual four-year working relationship would be like.
| i disagree. Bill Clinton was the only 2 term president the Democratic party has had in the last 2 generations...and Bill Clinton was the best President we have had in at least three decades....to make him out as a liability instead of an asset is foolish, and to eliminate Hillary because of her being married to one of the best presidents we have ever had in our history, residing over the most profitable time in our history is selfish and foolish, of Obama...
also, 18 million voters, disagree with you....and with obama, they did not see Bill Clinton as a liability....the 90's were the best and most prosperous time in our history, why put down the 90's...bill clinton is NOT george w bush and never has been, nor is hillary....
most vp's don't have much power, cheney was an exception because Bush wanted it that way, but there has been NO vp in my lifetime that has had any power, other than Cheney....the President is commander....
to rule hillary out because her husband was a good president, once upon a time shows the lack of confidence that Barak has in himself imho....or his advisors have in him, i really don't know...or it is plain selfishness or arrogance that keeps him from wanting to share the limelight or something....who knows...?
Whatever it was, he did not put our country first, he put HIMSELF first, imo, by NOT CHOOSING her as his vp...because NOW the democrats have a real horse race on their hands, instead of an easy win....
----------------------------------------
I don't see Obama as a Black man, i see him as a man.....women did not even have the right to vote in our elections until the early 20th century...African American men could even vote BEFORE women got that right. just awful for women to be treated like that by the men of this country.....so i don't see obama as anything other than another man becoming president....where as Hillary would have been something much more to me....for all that women have gone through in this country just to get the right to vote...we are still lagging behind, and another man moves ahead of women...it would be one thing if Obama were stronger or more qualified than Hillary, then so be it...but i just don't view it that way....
i view it as the DNC, through their rule breaking and rule fenagling, PUT Obama in the position he is in along with the media...Obama was the "insider's choice"...he is no change, he was the INSIDER, the ones the male dominated Dnc and inside the beltway wanted.
I don't blame Obama, for what the DNC did, but i do believe that Dean should be fired for what he did, to florida and to michigan and to all of us here that were disenfranchised of their will....
and lastly, my best guess on why Obama chose Biden is because HE IS OLD, which means that he will not have ambitions to be President when his vp roll is done, making him more of a lame duck vp....obama doesn't need to worry about Biden's ambitions to become president some day and any conflict that may cause during the latter years of his presidency, and he thought that Biden was strong on women's issues, like equal pay for equal work, compared with men....Biden is the only possible vp in consideration that would have been acceptable to at least some of the hillary supporters, his other vp possibilities didn't stand a prayer with hillary supporters or with most women....
care |
08-27-2008, 01:19 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 25,191
Rep Power: 79 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunny Obama can't have a VP that will overshadow him. HIllary definitely would. I don't see her accepting the position anyway. She's not going to play second fiddle. She'll be back as a Republican in 2012.
I'm surprised he picked Biden who also can easily overshadow him. | Bingo--no way she's going to sit behind him for 4 years. The lady's ego is so big IT was going to be nominated for VP should she have gotten the nod.
__________________
"Some men eventually stumble over the truth but they usually pick themselves up and walk on as if nothing ever happened."
-Winston Churchill
"But though there is no difference in this respect between the best demagogue and the worst, both of them having to present their cases equally in terms of melodrama, there is all the difference in the world between the statesman who is humbugging the people into allowing him to do the will of God, in whatever disguise it may come to him, and one who is humbugging them into furthering his personal ambition and the commercial interests of the plutocrats who own the newspapers and support him on reciprocal terms."
-George Bernard Shaw |
08-27-2008, 01:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 10 | | | Fla and Mich broke the rules care... Obama chose Biden for foreign affairs and internal DC governmental working knowlege. As carter proved even the best of intentions can get a President nowhere without knowlege to get things done... |
08-27-2008, 01:32 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 25,191
Rep Power: 79 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Care4all Sure he did...even moreso, so that can't be it! imo
Sure he does...he's a plagiarist...supports mccain bigtime, said he would accept the vp position even from mccain...outside of that, he is a terrific guy!
and all the investigating was done, thoroughly already on Whitewater and all of the hundreds of scandals the republicans tried to nail them with.
i disagree. Bill Clinton was the only 2 term president the Democratic party has had in the last 2 generations...and Bill Clinton was the best President we have had in at least three decades....to make him out as a liability instead of an asset is foolish, and to eliminate Hillary because of her being married to one of the best presidents we have ever had in our history, residing over the most profitable time in our history is selfish and foolish, of Obama...
also, 18 million voters, disagree with you....and with obama, they did not see Bill Clinton as a liability....the 90's were the best and most prosperous time in our history, why put down the 90's...bill clinton is NOT george w bush and never has been, nor is hillary....
most vp's don't have much power, cheney was an exception because Bush wanted it that way, but there has been NO vp in my lifetime that has had any power, other than Cheney....the President is commander....
to rule hillary out because her husband was a good president, once upon a time shows the lack of confidence that Barak has in himself imho....or his advisors have in him, i really don't know...or it is plain selfishness or arrogance that keeps him from wanting to share the limelight or something....who knows...?
Whatever it was, he did not put our country first, he put HIMSELF first, imo, by NOT CHOOSING her as his vp...because NOW the democrats have a real horse race on their hands, instead of an easy win....
----------------------------------------
I don't see Obama as a Black man, i see him as a man.....women did not even have the right to vote in our elections until the early 20th century...African American men could even vote BEFORE women got that right. just awful for women to be treated like that by the men of this country.....so i don't see obama as anything other than another man becoming president....where as Hillary would have been something much more to me....for all that women have gone through in this country just to get the right to vote...we are still lagging behind, and another man moves ahead of women...it would be one thing if Obama were stronger or more qualified than Hillary, then so be it...but i just don't view it that way....
i view it as the DNC, through their rule breaking and rule fenagling, PUT Obama in the position he is in along with the media...Obama was the "insider's choice"...he is no change, he was the INSIDER, the ones the male dominated Dnc and inside the beltway wanted.
I don't blame Obama, for what the DNC did, but i do believe that Dean should be fired for what he did, to florida and to michigan and to all of us here that were disenfranchised of their will....
and lastly, my best guess on why Obama chose Biden is because HE IS OLD, which means that he will not have ambitions to be President when his vp roll is done, making him more of a lame duck vp....obama doesn't need to worry about Biden's ambitions to become president some day and any conflict that may cause during the latter years of his presidency, and he thought that Biden was strong on women's issues, like equal pay for equal work, compared with men....Biden is the only possible vp in consideration that would have been acceptable to at least some of the hillary supporters, his other vp possibilities didn't stand a prayer with hillary supporters or with most women....
care | The women loses and it's the mens fault. Bout time to quit beating that dead horse. Do you have any idea how many women HATE Hillary ?
__________________
"Some men eventually stumble over the truth but they usually pick themselves up and walk on as if nothing ever happened."
-Winston Churchill
"But though there is no difference in this respect between the best demagogue and the worst, both of them having to present their cases equally in terms of melodrama, there is all the difference in the world between the statesman who is humbugging the people into allowing him to do the will of God, in whatever disguise it may come to him, and one who is humbugging them into furthering his personal ambition and the commercial interests of the plutocrats who own the newspapers and support him on reciprocal terms."
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