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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 06:37 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
I just did a search for your Madison quote and all I got was whacky left wing sites. Which is a huge red flag. It should be prevalent on historical sites.

Republicanism does not mean croney capitalism. Obviously you can't connect the dots but the Republicans haven't been in power for a while, even the last two Bush years weren't controlled by Republicans.
The last 2 years of the Bush administration were basically a desperate flurry of moves by Democrats to try to stave off the upcoming cataclysm that was caused by Bush's policies.

Some of it worked.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:45 AM
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The last 2 years of the Bush administration were basically a desperate flurry of moves by Democrats to try to stave off the upcoming cataclysm that was caused by Bush's policies.

Some of it worked.
LOL. Spending went through the roof when Madam Peolosi and crew came in, long before the meltdown. Goosestepping to the monochromatic leftwing drumbeat won't change facts.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:59 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
Your quote is bogus:

Talk:James Madison - Wikiquote

Quote:
I have come across this quote, attributed to Madison, in several blogs, and would like to know if it is authentic.

The quote goes on to say: *"When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

Thanks. Tclose 13:28, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
It doesn't appear to be an authentic quote. It isn't given in any of the collections of Madison's writings. The earliest I find it is from 1900, when Daniel De Leon is speaking at the convention of the Socialist Labor Party:

Will you tell me that James Madison did not understand the situation when he said in a magnificent little essay of his: "We are free to-day substantially, but the day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility. It will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. A republic cannot stand upon bayonets, and when that day comes, when the wealth of the nation will be in the hands of a few, then we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation to the changed conditions."
I don't know that De Leon meant that as an exact quote. It appears that he was speaking extemporaneously, not from a prepared statement. The whole convention was "stenographically reported by B. F. Keinard."Earlier, in 1889, De Leon had written an essay, The Voice of Madison, discussing what Madison had written about suffrage and property. De Leon's essay is a little vague, but I believe that he is talking about remarks that Madison made at the Federal Constitutional Convention and later elaborated upon in a series of notes. Madison is talking about whether the right to vote should be limited to landholders, a restriction he opposed.There is some similarity in theme between the purported quote and Madison's discussion of suffrage. Madison does say that, as the population increased, the proportion of the population with property, especially farm land, will decrease. And he discusses the inherent conflict between the rights of those with property and those without. But I don't see anything about our republic being an impossibility.De Leon's essay "The Voice of Madison" was reprinted, along with an essay about Karl Marx, in a small book in 1920, prefaced by the quote in question. De Leon had died in 1914, so he didn't have the chance to proofread this book, so is not responsible for it appearing there. As I said earlier, I'm not sure that he meant it to be taken as an exact quote.I hope that helps.
So we can just ignore the rest of your OP. It's horse**** from the get-go.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 06:59 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
He didn't mean Government Centralized control...and that is the point YOU are trying to make. Your premise is FALSE.
It's a bogus quote. Madison never said any such thing.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 07:02 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
He didn't mean Government Centralized control...and that is the point YOU are trying to make. Your premise is FALSE.
No it's not.

Quote:
We are free today substantially but the day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility. It will be impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. A republic cannot stand upon bayonets, and when that day comes, when the wealth of the nation will be in the hands of a few, then we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation to the changed conditions.
James Madison?s Prescient Warning | JONATHAN TURLEY

You seem to know very little about this country.
It's a bogus quote, numskull. Are all libturds so gullible?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 07:03 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
He didn't mean Government Centralized control...and that is the point YOU are trying to make. Your premise is FALSE.
Then what did he mean? What else could possibly solve such a problem?
You'd have to ask the commie who actually said it, not Madison.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Yes because Freedom is so well defined by the seizing illegally of peoples assets because you think they have to much.

Who gets to decide what is too much? Who gets to decide what to do with the stolen goods and cash?


Of course in order to seize these goods and cash one must first strip those we deem to wealthy of their rights all across the board. That would take an amendment to the Constitution. Several actually. And would stifle growth and prosperity for all.

Further even if you take the seized goods and cash and distribute it to the poor it will only help them until they spend it or use it as they still do not have the means to produce more themselves. So then you would need to lower the bar on who is to wealthy and strip them as well. Until everyone is poor and has no means to make more.

Great plan.
It's all here.

In black and white. English too.

Quote:
Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
What part of that don't you understand? Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
I've understood it exceedingly well for the past 45 years....

Funny..even if you squint, I don't see an authority to tax assets and income held in other countries....

What part of that don't you understand?

BTW...existing wealth is NOT income. Lets see if you understand what I mean by that.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2014, 07:04 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Yes because Freedom is so well defined by the seizing illegally of peoples assets because you think they have to much.

Who gets to decide what is too much? Who gets to decide what to do with the stolen goods and cash?


Of course in order to seize these goods and cash one must first strip those we deem to wealthy of their rights all across the board. That would take an amendment to the Constitution. Several actually. And would stifle growth and prosperity for all.

Further even if you take the seized goods and cash and distribute it to the poor it will only help them until they spend it or use it as they still do not have the means to produce more themselves. So then you would need to lower the bar on who is to wealthy and strip them as well. Until everyone is poor and has no means to make more.

Great plan.
It's all here.

In black and white. English too.

Quote:
Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
What part of that don't you understand? Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
What part of the 5th Amendment don't you understand? Nothing in the list gives government the authority to seize anything from anyone.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:04 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bripat9643 Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
Your quote is bogus:

Talk:James Madison - Wikiquote

Quote:
I have come across this quote, attributed to Madison, in several blogs, and would like to know if it is authentic.

The quote goes on to say: *"When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

Thanks. Tclose 13:28, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
It doesn't appear to be an authentic quote. It isn't given in any of the collections of Madison's writings. The earliest I find it is from 1900, when Daniel De Leon is speaking at the convention of the Socialist Labor Party:

Will you tell me that James Madison did not understand the situation when he said in a magnificent little essay of his: "We are free to-day substantially, but the day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility. It will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. A republic cannot stand upon bayonets, and when that day comes, when the wealth of the nation will be in the hands of a few, then we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation to the changed conditions."
I don't know that De Leon meant that as an exact quote. It appears that he was speaking extemporaneously, not from a prepared statement. The whole convention was "stenographically reported by B. F. Keinard."Earlier, in 1889, De Leon had written an essay, The Voice of Madison, discussing what Madison had written about suffrage and property. De Leon's essay is a little vague, but I believe that he is talking about remarks that Madison made at the Federal Constitutional Convention and later elaborated upon in a series of notes. Madison is talking about whether the right to vote should be limited to landholders, a restriction he opposed.There is some similarity in theme between the purported quote and Madison's discussion of suffrage. Madison does say that, as the population increased, the proportion of the population with property, especially farm land, will decrease. And he discusses the inherent conflict between the rights of those with property and those without. But I don't see anything about our republic being an impossibility.De Leon's essay "The Voice of Madison" was reprinted, along with an essay about Karl Marx, in a small book in 1920, prefaced by the quote in question. De Leon had died in 1914, so he didn't have the chance to proofread this book, so is not responsible for it appearing there. As I said earlier, I'm not sure that he meant it to be taken as an exact quote.I hope that helps.
So we can just ignore the rest of your OP. It's horse**** from the get-go.
Um no you obviously didn't read what you posted.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:04 AM
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...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.
I just did a search for your Madison quote and all I got was whacky left wing sites. Which is a huge red flag. It should be prevalent on historical sites.

Republicanism does not mean croney capitalism. Obviously you can't connect the dots but the Republicans haven't been in power for a while, even the last two Bush years weren't controlled by Republicans.
The last 2 years of the Bush administration were basically a desperate flurry of moves by Democrats to try to stave off the upcoming cataclysm that was caused by Bush's policies.

Some of it worked.

If the Democrats had not fought Bush since 2001 in controlling Freddie and Fannie who owned 70% of the U.S. mortgage market we would have not had the that cataclysm in the first place.
Democrats thought that it was just fine until they took over that last 2 years and then it was too late to do something about it.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Yes because Freedom is so well defined by the seizing illegally of peoples assets because you think they have to much.

Who gets to decide what is too much? Who gets to decide what to do with the stolen goods and cash?

Of course in order to seize these goods and cash one must first strip those we deem to wealthy of their rights all across the board. That would take an amendment to the Constitution. Several actually. And would stifle growth and prosperity for all.

Further even if you take the seized goods and cash and distribute it to the poor it will only help them until they spend it or use it as they still do not have the means to produce more themselves. So then you would need to lower the bar on who is to wealthy and strip them as well. Until everyone is poor and has no means to make more.

Great plan.
You obviously don't understand how wrong you are. Of course it won't do any good to explain it to you because you aren't willing to listen, but let's try anyway.

When the richest 1% of the population reap 95% of financial gains:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1%25...x-a&channel=sb

then how are 99% of people supposed to make a living for their selves and their families? When corporate 1% "job creators" create all of the jobs in China so they don't have to pay Americans (or Chinese) a real living wage, then how are 99% of people supposed to earn a living?

No one is suggesting to "take" anything from rich people. We simply want the laws of our nation enforced on the wealthy as they are on the rest of us. No one on this board is "too big to fail", so why would anyone defend these rich criminals?

HSBC directly funded terrorism against our soldiers, and Teabaggers are still claiming that "Liberals just hate success."
Since your claims are pure fabrications, there's no point in discussing them. This entire thread is based on a bogus quote. Almost every liberal argument is based on false premises.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Yes because Freedom is so well defined by the seizing illegally of peoples assets because you think they have to much.

Who gets to decide what is too much? Who gets to decide what to do with the stolen goods and cash?

Of course in order to seize these goods and cash one must first strip those we deem to wealthy of their rights all across the board. That would take an amendment to the Constitution. Several actually. And would stifle growth and prosperity for all.

Further even if you take the seized goods and cash and distribute it to the poor it will only help them until they spend it or use it as they still do not have the means to produce more themselves. So then you would need to lower the bar on who is to wealthy and strip them as well. Until everyone is poor and has no means to make more.

Great plan.
Productivity of the lower classes has grown exponentially since the 30s yet wages have remained flat while the wealthy have only grown more wealthy. Don't you think people should be paid based on productivity?

What's the solution? Pay people fairly. What's fair? That's something economists can easily determine mathematically. Higher wages means more economic demand. The economy, and rich people will continue to thrive. Everybody wins.
The percentage of the GDP going to labor has remained relatively constant, so your claim is obvious horse****. the only thing that has changed is that wealthy people report more income as a result of lower marginal rates. When marginal rates were up to 90% there were thousands of deductions and tax avoidance schemes that allowed to wealthy to report a much lower income.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:09 AM
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The last 2 years of the Bush administration were basically a desperate flurry of moves by Democrats to try to stave off the upcoming cataclysm that was caused by Bush's policies.

Some of it worked.
LOL. Spending went through the roof when Madam Peolosi and crew came in, long before the meltdown. Goosestepping to the monochromatic leftwing drumbeat won't change facts.
The "spending" went through the roof when Bush got rid of Paygo, gave several tax cuts to the rich, lowered interest rates to zero, instituted R&D and new and exotic weapons systems (that do not work), started a war in Afghanistan, started a war in Iraq, created a whole new medicare entitlement, created a whole new department and put it all on the national credit card.

Yeah..you are well grounded in reality. The reality of FOX.
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Quote: Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.

It's all here.

In black and white. English too.



What part of that don't you understand? Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Taxes can not be back dated. So again seizing wealth is illegal. All you can do via the legislature is change the tax rates. That does not get you their money or their property.

Further most rich people do not make taxable income.

Who wants to seize everyone's wealth?

And it's not taxable, now.

Doesn't mean that can't change.
It's obvious that you and all your Komrades would like to confiscate the property of the wealthy. You've made it quite plain. What other purpose can you have by constantly whining about it?
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CrazedScotsman Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
This was said in a time when there was limited wealth, back when our currency was backed by gold. For good or for bad, that is not the case any longer.
So?
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