US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Those Drones

This is a discussion on Those Drones within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Yeah, I know there's x number of threads already. This is one more. Not a 'reliable source,' but a conversation I think worthy to have. ...


Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Politics

Politics Discuss government policies and candidates...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:31 PM
Annie's Avatar
chillin
Member #401
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 50,607
Thanks: 5,340
Thanked 2,564 Times in 1,823 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1759
Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute
Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute Annie has a reputation beyond repute
Those Drones

Yeah, I know there's x number of threads already. This is one more. Not a 'reliable source,' but a conversation I think worthy to have. There are links aplenty, but enough her for discussion, I'd think.

Bookworm Room » The worst thing about those drone strikes is Obama?s moral preening and hypocrisy

Quote:
The worst thing about those drone strikes is Obama’s moral preening and hypocrisy

Bookworm on Feb 06 2013 at 4:35 pm | Filed under: Barack Obama, Muslim violence

There’s been a lot of upset in the conservative blogosphere about Obama’s drone strike policy. The way the administration phrased it, as “legal,” “ethical,” and “wise,” got a lot of hackles up, especially when Michael Isikoff let slip how little oversight there is — including oversight over decisions to kill American citizens.

A lot of people are very worried about this, because they see a government that feels unfettered by the protections accorded citizens under the Bill of Rights. The problem, as conservatives see it, isn’t so much what the administration does, but the attitude it has when it does it. Thus, the administration manifestly refuses to acknowledge that the rights stated in the Bill of Rights are inherent in all citizens and that the government has the burden of proving good cause to implicate or limit those rights in any way.

Instead, in every instance, the Obama administration takes the position that government has the inherent power to impinge upon and limit citizen’s freedoms, or even take their lives, leaving citizens with the burden of proving that the government has overreached. To the extent that the attitude inverts both the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, people who care about those documents and the unalienable rights they establish and protect are going to view anything the administration does with a jaundiced eye.

Rusty Shackleford, however, who knows as much about Al Qaeda and other Islamist extremists as anyone else on this earth, tells conservatives not to get too uptight about those American citizens that the Obama administration targets for drone killing. These people aren’t just any old Americans. Instead, they are citizens who have deliberately thrown their lot in with al Qaeda, thereby taking upon themselves enemy status:

If you think it’s unconstitutional or immoral to kill a member of a terrorist organization living abroad then you and I have very different readings of the Constitution and very different sets of moral standards.

Moreover, it’s just basic common sense that in warfare you don’t stop to ask the person you’re about to shoot for a copy of their passport. Who gives a rat’s ass if bin Laden was Saudi or if he was born in Colorado?

Please, go read the report. Nowhere in it is there even a smidgen of a hint that drones could be used against Americans … in America.

.
.
.

Bottom line: there are few things more loathsome than someone who yells at you and humiliates you for doing something, then does the same thing himself, and, if you call him upon it, says that the mere fact that it is he who’s doing it, not you, makes it all right.

Last edited by Newby; 02-07-2013 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Copyright - Please keep to only a few paragraphs
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
USMessageBoard.com is the premier Political Forum Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see these ads. Please Register - It's Free!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 01:18 AM
waltky's Avatar
Supporting Member
Member #27951
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Okolona, KY
Posts: 10,977
Thanks: 12,206
Thanked 1,307 Times in 1,076 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1198
waltky could be on the Supreme Court
waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court
Red face

Best way to ruin a good thing is to let a buncha politicians get involved...

Obama to give white paper on targeted killings to Congress
Wed February 6, 2013 - The Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday morning will receive a classified document that seeks to justify the administration's policy of targeting Americans overseas via drone attacks, chairwoman Dianne Feinstein said late Wednesday.
Quote:
"I am pleased that the president has agreed to provide the Intelligence Committee with access to the OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) opinion regarding the use of lethal force in counterterrorism operations," the California Democrat said in a statement. "It is critical for the committee's oversight function to fully understand the legal basis for all intelligence and counterterrorism operations." The announcement came shortly after an administration official said that President Barack Obama had yielded to demands that he turn over to Congress the classified Justice Department legal advice that seeks to justify the policy.

The developments came the night before confirmation hearings are to be held for Obama's CIA director nominee, John Brennan, and amid complaints from senators, including several Democrats, about secrecy surrounding the drone policy. "Today, as part of the president's ongoing commitment to consult with Congress on national security matters, the president directed the Department of Justice to provide the congressional Intelligence committees access to classified Office of Legal Counsel advice related to the subject of the Department of Justice White Paper," an administration official said.


The U.S. MQ-9 Reaper unmanned aerial vehicle has been used to take out key targets in the war on terror.

The 16-page white paper -- titled "Lawfulness of a Lethal Operation Directed Against a U.S. Citizen who is a Senior Operational Leader of Al Qaida or an Associated Force" -- is a policy paper rather than an official legal document. The president, the official said, was turning over the information because he believes the scrutiny and debate is healthy.

In a 2012 speech at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, Brennan asserted that the drone strikes are legal both under the Authorization for Use of Military Force resolution passed by Congress after the September 11 attacks and because, "There is nothing in international law that bans the use of remotely piloted aircraft for this purpose or that prohibits us from using lethal force against our enemies outside of an active battlefield, at least when the country involved consents or is unable or unwilling to take action against the threat."

More Obama to give white paper on targeted killings to Congress - CNN.com
__________________
Kinda funny how, instead of a 'sequester', the Wall Street bankers got bailed out.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to waltky For This Useful Post:
Mr. H. (02-07-2013)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:37 AM
Lakhota's Avatar
Registered User
Member #31132
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Native America
Posts: 22,638
Thanks: 4,223
Thanked 5,834 Times in 4,122 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
"Note to conservatives: If you supported Bush's torture
you don't get to say shit about the murder memo."
-- Rude Pundit in a tweet
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:46 AM
Lakhota's Avatar
Registered User
Member #31132
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Native America
Posts: 22,638
Thanks: 4,223
Thanked 5,834 Times in 4,122 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thank Bush for extraordinary rendition...and drones...

GLOBALIZING TORTURE
CIA SECRET DETENTION
AND EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lakhota For This Useful Post:
waltky (02-07-2013)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:49 AM
Registered User
Member #34777
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 342
Thanked 1,243 Times in 885 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 729
Meathead has disabled reputation
I'm willing to give Obama a break on this one. After all, it's the only thing he's done right.
__________________
"Knowledge is Good.", Emil Farber
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Meathead For This Useful Post:
waltky (02-07-2013)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:49 AM
Ravi's Avatar
Hating hatters
Member #30646
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 59,627
Thanks: 2,012
Thanked 6,321 Times in 4,230 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 6076
Ravi has disabled reputation
Quote:
to malign George Bush and our troops as rabid killers
Back this up, please. With actual quotes.

I only wish you people got upset when we gave Dubya the authority to deem anyone a terrorist without trial.
__________________
Quote: Originally Posted by koshergrl View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Gracie View Post
The "good posters" left due to the filth of KG and her ilk.

Fact.
Such as?

Ravi and jillian would laugh their asses off, if you meant to imply I (or my *ilk*) chased them off.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 05:33 AM
RosieS's Avatar
Partisan Courtesan
Member #39688
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Southwest FL
Posts: 1,316
Thanks: 227
Thanked 524 Times in 366 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 676
RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet
RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet RosieS is faster than a speeding bullet
There was no reason to have a trial about Anwar al-Awlaki's treason. 13 murdered Ft. Hood soldiers are evidence enuff of treason. Nidal Hassan's computer hard drive provided all the forensics needed.

Due process doesn't apply for treasonous war criminals. Death by drone was just punishment. It is certain no more Americans will be killed due to al-Awlaki's al-Queda activities because death is a permanent end to
his traitorous jihad.

Regards from Rosie
__________________
"If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself." - Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RosieS For This Useful Post:
waltky (05-08-2013)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2013, 10:52 PM
waltky's Avatar
Supporting Member
Member #27951
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Okolona, KY
Posts: 10,977
Thanks: 12,206
Thanked 1,307 Times in 1,076 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1198
waltky could be on the Supreme Court
waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court waltky could be on the Supreme Court
Red face

Prob'ly copies of the drone Iran shot down an' give to `em...

Chinese drones pose threat: experts
Mon, May 06, 2013 - NATIONAL DEFENSE:The US co-author of a recent report on Chinese drones said the PLA is probably already using UAVs to keep an eye on Kinmen, Matsu and Dongyin
Quote:
With a direct eye on Taiwan, the Chinese military may be moving into the large-scale deployment of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or drones. The Associated Press reported over the last few days that Chinese aerospace firms had developed dozens of drones, that its technology was maturing rapidly and that they were “on the cusp” of widespread use for surveillance and combat strikes. “Taiwan should be concerned about China’s development of large numbers of sophisticated military UAVs,” Ian Easton, a research fellow at The Project 2049 Institute, told the Taipei Times.

Easton, co-author of a recent report on Chinese drones, said there were signs that the Taipei government was taking the situation seriously and “preparing accordingly.” Intelligence from Taipei on the Chinese UAV fleet indicated that the Military Intelligence Bureau “may have conducted successful operations against China that specifically focused on collecting information about UAVs,” Easton said. He said that China hides its military aircraft in extensive networks of camouflaged hangers and underground bunkers at virtually every air base across the Taiwan Strait.

Considering that, the bureau could not have gotten its information from satellite imagery and would have had to have used some other measure — “agents on the ground or perhaps cyber espionage,” he said. Easton said that Chinese UAVs would be deployed in any naval blockade or missile campaign scenario directed against Taiwan. “They would also support any invasion of Kinmen, Matsu or Dongyin [Isle],” he said. “Given the close proximity of these Taiwanese islands to China, they are probably under Chinese UAV surveillance already, just as the Senkakus [Diaoyutai Islands] and the Spratly Islands [Nansha Islands, reportedly are,” Easton said.

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force Base near Shuimen Village in China’s Fujian Province, has UAVs stationed there — very close to several of Taiwan’s off-shore islands. Easton said Taiwan’s main defensive advantages against Chinese UAVs were geography and technology. “Taiwan has built a remarkable homeland air and missile defense network using its mountainous terrain to protect key facilities and station long-range radars at high elevations,” he said. “Taiwan’s close relationships with the US military and intelligence community — and Taiwan’s own world-class technology sectors — provide it with some truly cutting edge capabilities for targeting and intercepting attack aircraft, missiles and UAVs,” Easton said.

MORE
__________________
Kinda funny how, instead of a 'sequester', the Wall Street bankers got bailed out.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Lower Navigation
Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Politics
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.