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The U.S. is number 28 in gun homicides with 2.97 per 100,000

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:05 AM
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Give us a chance...we are working on it

Got the list? I want to know who we have to beat to get to number 1
According to the EU the UK
Again, you keep confusing murder and violent crime. Are you just being obtuse or are you really that stupid?

Here is an article that shows the US 32nd in the world in gun related murders without including a large number of countries. The US is much worse than 28th in the world in gun deaths. I'd like to see the source from the video you posted in the OP.
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:07 AM
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You're defending a source that has the title attached to it with


But several times have made the statement murder is murder?
Do you even try to make sense? The chart underneath that then breaks down the firearm related deaths into multiple categories, which includes homicide/murder.
Talk about retarded? You're the one going around saying murder is murder but defending a source that talks only about gun related deaths.
Once again the U.S is way behind the UK in murders and violent crimes.
The US is NOT behind the UK in murders. Your OP doesn't even claim that and difference in the rate isn't even close.

The US may be behind the UK in violent crimes. We would need to see how both classify those numbers.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:09 AM
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According to the EU the UK
Again, you keep confusing murder and violent crime. Are you just being obtuse or are you really that stupid?

Here is an article that shows the US 32nd in the world in gun related murders without including a large number of countries. The US is much worse than 28th in the world in gun deaths. I'd like to see the source from the video you posted in the OP.
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online
Violent crime?

Who gives a **** about violent crime? We are talking blood spattering murder rate here.

The US at #28 just doesn't cut it. We need to work on getting to #1

UK is a bunch of pussies when it comes to murder
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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The citations for those data are non functional, unfortunately. Even if we do take it to be accurate, it still clearly shows US crime rates to be dwarfed by those of many other countries.

Let's do two things here. First, let's find some more authoritative sources for our information (I'm going to start with the FBI website) and let's take a more comprehensive look at available data to try to better identify causal factors relating to crime.

According to the FBI, there were 1,203,564 violent crimes in 2011 (most recent available data) in the United States. Using the figure 311,800,000 as the mid 2011 population of the United States that computes out to a crime rate of 0.00386% or 386 for every 100,000 people. This figure is lower than that provided by the video.

Due to differing definitions of "violent" crime, direct statistical comparisons can be difficult and require a great deal of time breaking down the numbers, so I'm not going to go too far in depth on those statistics at this point. But according to this UK newspaper the UK is indeed considered the most violent country in the EU, as described by the video, and has rates of violence that are greater than that of the US. The UK tracks crime statistics along fiscal years (July to June) and the government's report on 2010-2011 crime stats in Great Britian can be found here. (PDF file)

One thing we can compare directly are homicide rates. For the Britain it's 642 total homicides, while Britain's population in 2011 was reported as 56,100,000. This is 1.14 per 100,000. And that is certainly lower than the US's rate of 4.356 per 100,000 (1.2% of all violent crime).

However, it is also worth noting that both the US and Great Britain have been experiencing downward trends of all these kinds of crimes for many years now. Thus, looking at single years is not a good way to appraise the state of crime control and prevention in either country, especially if we want to gauge whether or not the differences in our gun policy may have any contribution to our respective crime rates. So, I decided to take a look at what happened in Britain pre-1997 and compare it to the current stats.

These data are, unfortunately, difficult to come by. But I did find this government report from 2004 that had some important clue about the historical trends and comparisons. For example, page 14 addresses use of weapons specifically, and has this to say:

Latest data show that almost three-quarters of violent incidents did not involve the use of a weapon (72%). The proportion of incidents in which a weapon was used has, however, increased significantly since the 1998 BCS. Since the last data (2001/02 BCS) the proportion of stranger violence incidents involving weapons has also increased.

(emphasis mine) Also in the report:

Overall, firearms were only used in one per cent of violent incidents. This is a consistent
finding from previous survey results.


This data starts to paint a much more meaningful picture of crime rates, trends, and the possible affects of differing US and British gun control policies on the same. What we can see from the data is that Britain has always had lower crime rates than the US, and their rates of crime involving firearms has always been lower than the US. The legality, or lack thereof, of guns in the UK has neither contributed to nor detracted from the comparative crime rates between the two countries. Outlawing guns in the UK has not caused less crime. The rate of crime involving a firearm has remained constant. While Britain has seen a downward trend in crime in recent years, the US has also seen a downward trend.

Based on these data and facts, it is impossible to conclude that Britain's lower violent crime rates, or rates of crime involving a firearm, are due to their restrictive gun policy. In fact, the opposite conclusion emerges: Restrictive gun policy has had no meaningful effect on crime rates generally, nor on violent crime rates, nor on rates of crimes involving firearms. The differences in these rates must be caused by entirely different social and cultural factors.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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Do you even try to make sense? The chart underneath that then breaks down the firearm related deaths into multiple categories, which includes homicide/murder.
Talk about retarded? You're the one going around saying murder is murder but defending a source that talks only about gun related deaths.
Once again the U.S is way behind the UK in murders and violent crimes.
The US is NOT behind the UK in murders. Your OP doesn't even claim that and difference in the rate isn't even close.

The US may be behind the UK in violent crimes. We would need to see how both classify those numbers.
Quote:
The US is NOT behind the UK in murders
My mistake

Quote:
The US may be behind the UK in violent crimes.
The point of my mistake to see if you would admit the UK leads the US in violent crimes.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:12 AM
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Again, you keep confusing murder and violent crime. Are you just being obtuse or are you really that stupid?

Here is an article that shows the US 32nd in the world in gun related murders without including a large number of countries. The US is much worse than 28th in the world in gun deaths. I'd like to see the source from the video you posted in the OP.
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online
Violent crime?

Who gives a **** about violent crime? We are talking blood spattering murder rate here.

The US at #28 just doesn't cut it. We need to work on getting to #1

UK is a bunch of pussies when it comes to murder
So tell me would the UK be so violent if it's citizens would be armed?
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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The firearm related death rate also includes this such as SUICIDE... it is not just homicide.. hence why it is a skewed statistic on this.. for a person wanting to take their own life, if they do not have a firearm, will indeed take it another way
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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Yeah we have good medical trauma care.

How many are shot though?
About 10 shot last week in KY but only 1 died.
Sooo, GB's HC sucks?

Pasts that didn't GB have most violent crimes committed? The US was far far far far far behind, that's no deaths, no trauma care prevents that.

The point is clear and itís a little surprising you canít see it, that if you take away guns bad people find other ways to hurt, rob or kill peopleÖ As proven by, reality and numbers and all that chit.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:16 AM
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Over half of all of our gun homicides, of course, are committed by just a tiny 6% sliver of a demographic who votes 98% Democrat.


Why won't the Democrats address the REAL gun murder problem in America?
The UK has the second highest crime rate in the EU
The fifth highest robbery rate
The fourth highest burglary rate
The EU named Britain the most violent country in the EU.
In the UK there are 2034 violent crimes per 100,000 people
The U.S. has 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
Do all of those countries classify their crimes the same way?
Do you ask the same question about the WHO healthcare rankings?? Or do you just bring it up when it suits your agenda??
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:18 AM
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The point of my mistake to see if you would admit the UK leads the US in violent crimes.
I will have no issue doing so as long as you can show that violent crimes are classified the same way in both countries.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:19 AM
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The firearm related death rate also includes this such as SUICIDE... it is not just homicide.. hence why it is a skewed statistic on this.. for a person wanting to take their own life, if they do not have a firearm, will indeed take it another way
As has already been pointed out, it is broken down on the chart.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:20 AM
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The UK has the second highest crime rate in the EU
The fifth highest robbery rate
The fourth highest burglary rate
The EU named Britain the most violent country in the EU.
In the UK there are 2034 violent crimes per 100,000 people
The U.S. has 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
Do all of those countries classify their crimes the same way?
Do you ask the same question about the WHO healthcare rankings?? Or do you just bring it up when it suits your agenda??
I don't think I've ever used those rankings in a discussion before. Thanks for asking though.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:21 AM
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28th ???
I'm sure if we work harder we can be #1
but we are number 28 and not number 1 that anti gun nutters like to proclaim.
Give us a chance...we are working on it

Got the list? I want to know who we have to beat to get to number 1
I notice when you get owned you start posting like you are now. Why can't you just accept we are 28th and that's AMAZING NEWS, that's not really news... Point is, now that we are 28th, has your position on the second amendment changed, or do you still see it as something that needs to be repealed and done away with?

Then of course what do you base your position off if you still wana take guns away despite them making people statistically safer than countries that have very strict gins laws?


I will not get an answer.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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The point of my mistake to see if you would admit the UK leads the US in violent crimes.
I will have no issue doing so as long as you can show that violent crimes are classified the same way in both countries.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:26 AM
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The point of my mistake to see if you would admit the UK leads the US in violent crimes.
I will have no issue doing so as long as you can show that violent crimes are classified the same way in both countries.
Then go the **** out and find the info an put it in the thread. Fact is you donít want to because you know it's irrelevant. It could be the same, it could be that the US's numbers are much higher because we accept/count less violent crimes counted as violent crimes in comparison...

You just want to leave it open so you have something, just something to hold on to.
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